Paralyzed and Agonizing: Buyback vs Fix 2013 TDI JSW

[loop7]

I'm glad it worked out for you. I hope the replacement JSW is just as good to you as your original. Sounds like you were able to bank a few more dollars and still get to enjoy the same type of car you had.

The "new" car has more audible engine noise which, I assume, is the emissions modification. Maybe a new muffler would help?

Movement/acceleration from a stop seems to have a slight lag compared to the un-modified car, again, likely due to the mod.

More road noise but I think that can only be due to different tires.

The car doesn't brake as smoothly from higher speeds - I'll have the brakes checked.

I notice a slight reduction in torque but, so far, MPG seems close to the unmodified - keep in mind, I'm an extremely conservative driver.

I will miss the old car's perfect performance but I need to remind myself that $10,000 and a warranty makes me a winner.

 

[MichaelB]

The "new" car has more audible engine noise which, I assume, is the emissions modification. Maybe a new muffler would help?

More audible engine noise than the previous generation TDI's
They rattle pretty good, Just the nature of a diesel engine eh?

 

[bizzle]

I suppose we all have different driving styles, but "slow" is the last adjective I'd use on my Jetta TDI! Toyota Camry's are slow. Prius's are slow. My TDI would leave all of these cars in the dust.

Of course comparing the Jetta to a sportscar (like a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche, etc...) is like comparing apples to oranges but those cars get what.. 18-19mpg on a good day? Besides, unless you're driving on the Autobahn, you'll never be able to get the ultimate driving experience with those cars in North America. All they are here are glorified status symbols. My TDI is very responsive and I get 50mpg on the highway or avg 43-44mpg combined (my stats, not VW's)

Not to toot my own horn (pun intended) but it definitely lives up to the hype in my books - but to each his own!

My experience has me agreeing more with Fourplay than you but, regardless, as loop7 and I mentioned the post-fix TDIs don't exhibit the same driving characteristics as pre-fixes anyway so it's pointless to pin a purchase to that aspect of the vehicle.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Besides, the pre-fix driving characteristics are easily brought back (and improved) with a tune.

 

[MichaelB]

Besides, the pre-fix driving characteristics are easily brought back (and improved) with a tune.

And cancel out the great warranty!
Prefix cars also would show improved performance over factory stock with a tune. We could go on and on about emission deletes and increased performance and tuning over the fix........It is all illegal. Take it or leave it what is more important to you? The money VW gave you for the fix will more than cover the cost of a tune. But kiss your extended warranty good by. It is your choice........ extended warranty or the tune for performance. I have always said the VW TDI's ain't hot rods.

 

[bizzle]

Besides, the pre-fix driving characteristics are easily brought back (and improved) with a tune.

Yes, but she's indicated the warranty is a major consideration so tuning isn't a viable solution. The gassers can be tuned, as well.

The problem I am seeing, but she's not seeing it as a problem, is that the characteristics she's using for the rationale of her TDI purchase aren't accurate given the conditions within which she's driving her vehicle.

Se has stated that hse prefers the TDI for its torque, it's mileage, and it's longevity. The mileage and longevity don't apply based on how she seems to be driving it and the off the line torque has been tuned out to comply with the emissions regulations.

I wasn't making an argument that if you aren't driving 30K miles per year you shouldn't be in a diesel, which is what people were getting zealous about in their responses. That's a completely different conversation than the one I was having, which is if you are only driving around town in short bursts the TDI will *not* enjoy the same longevity as a freeway flyer and it will *not* obtain the mileage advantage over an equivalent gas vehicle.

She hasn't test driven a modern vehicle, whether in post-fix 2015 TDI form, 2018 gas form, or electric form. All of them differ significantly from what she is currently driving and from what they were able to deliver even just a few years ago in terms of driving experience. If she's sitting in an armchair relying on outdated information and experiences, that's at least part of the reason she's "paralyzed and agonizing" over this decision--she doesn't even have all of the relevant information under her belt. On a diesel forum, full of diesel enthusiasts, a lot of clamoring and extolling of the benefits of diesel over the other considerations, but that doesn't mean they are the best fit for everyone's driving style even if they believe it to be true.

This is self-imposed paralysis. If you can't be bothered to go down to a local dealership and rule out a variety of options just so you're clear on what you do and don't want or will or won't accept, then you've already reached your conclusion whether you know it or not. It's a strange response, in my opinion, because the perfect car doesn't have to exist in order to test drive a current model. Go down to the dealership and test drive a stripped out 2015 manual...anything, doesn't even have to be a Passat...just to see if it's even driving the way you expect/desire it to. *Then*, after you've decided that a newer one is even worth looking for, go hunting for that needle.

 

[MichaelB]

Yes, but she's indicated the warranty is a major consideration so tuning isn't a viable solution. The gassers can be tuned, as well.

The problem I am seeing, but she's not seeing it as a problem, is that the characteristics she's using for the rationale of her TDI purchase aren't accurate given the conditions within which she's driving her vehicle.

Se has stated that hse prefers the TDI for its torque, it's mileage, and it's longevity. The mileage and longevity don't apply based on how she seems to be driving it and the off the line torque has been tuned out to comply with the emissions regulations.

I wasn't making an argument that if you aren't driving 30K miles per year you shouldn't be in a diesel, which is what people were getting zealous about in their responses. That's a completely different conversation than the one I was having, which is if you are only driving around town in short bursts the TDI will *not* enjoy the same longevity as a freeway flyer and it will *not* obtain the mileage advantage over an equivalent gas vehicle.

She hasn't test driven a modern vehicle, whether in post-fix 2015 TDI form, 2018 gas form, or electric form. All of them differ significantly from what she is currently driving and from what they were able to deliver even just a few years ago in terms of driving experience. If she's sitting in an armchair relying on outdated information and experiences, that's at least part of the reason she's "paralyzed and agonizing" over this decision--she doesn't even have all of the relevant information under her belt. On a diesel forum, full of diesel enthusiasts, a lot of clamoring and extolling of the benefits of diesel over the other considerations, but that doesn't mean they are the best fit for everyone's driving style even if they believe it to be true.

This is self-imposed paralysis. If you can't be bothered to go down to a local dealership and rule out a variety of options just so you're clear on what you do and don't want or will or won't accept, then you've already reached your conclusion whether you know it or not. It's a strange response, in my opinion, because the perfect car doesn't have to exist in order to test drive a current model. Go down to the dealership and test drive a stripped out 2015 manual...anything, doesn't even have to be a Passat...just to see if it's even driving the way you expect/desire it to. *Then*, after you've decided that a newer one is even worth looking for, go hunting for that needle.

"Yes but,"

With all those words who are you talking to? She or us?

who is talking to who here?

 

[MichaelB]

I was intending my response be to IndigoBlueWagon's post but directed to MyTDIRocks (with the caveat that I confused loop7, the person who started this thread, with MyTDIRocks). You posted in between IBW and me

I suggest you take this to a PM with IBW or MyTDIRocks and don't embarrass yourself online. The rest of us would not have to understand all that lingo that in the grand scheme of things that really makes no sense except to you and she Maybe you should talk to she.

 

[bizzle]

"Yes but,"

With all those words who are you talking to? She or us?

who is talking to who here?

I suggest you take this to a PM with IBW or MyTDIRocks and don't embarrass yourself online. The rest of us would not have to understand all that lingo that in the grand scheme of things that really makes no sense except to you and she Maybe you should talk to she.

It should be obvious to anyone who isn't trying to engage in a pissing match that I am responding to IBW about MYTDIRocks, who is a woman.

 

[MichaelB]

It should be obvious to anyone who isn't trying to engage in a pissing match that I am responding to IBW about MYTDIRocks, who is a woman.

Fine but there are more of us out there than she.

 

[skinnyv]

Ohhh the road noise on the Passat.

On some roads it’s almost deafening really. I will be saying bye close to December for sure.

 

[740GLE]

what tires you got on the Passat? I've found tires being the biggest player in road noise. We have some bridgestone something somethings and are quire happy for them.

Now wind noise on the Passat near the drivers window is another story.

 

[CHenry]

I cannot seem to make a decision. I love my car and, because I'm one of those drivers who never drives over the limit nor accelerates rapidly/brakes hard, the vehicle is in remarkable condition (50,000) miles.

The buyback is substantial but, when I look at new and used cars, I just get deflated with the entire process of buying another car.

Anyone else stuck in this cycle of indecision?

Eventually all cars go. Yours sounds as if it has run pretty well at 50,000 mi., but it is now a five-year-old car. You have already driven the best 50,000 miles your car will have to give. It is no moral shame to unload a car when it runs perfectly fine but makes financial sense to do so. The car is really no more of an asset than any other thing, tool, appliance, piece of property you own. There are lots of nice new cars to choose from to replace your car, many from VW, even.



The offer is substantial. You will not likely get even close to as much money as they are offering for your car ever again. I recommend you sell and get something you like.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

There are lots of nice new cars to choose from to replace your car, many from VW, even.

Perhaps, but a Jetta Sportwagen TDI, especially if it's a manual, is hard to duplicate. I grabbed my '15 when the leftovers came available because I was pretty confident that I'd never see this combination available in the North American market again: Wagon/Diesel/Manual transmission.

And 50K on these cars is nothing. It really is just barely broken in. If you love the car, get the fix, take the money for that, and keep it. If you don't, then take the buyback. Because if you're not in love with the car and you pass on the buyback, you're going to kick yourself.

 

[CHenry]

Perhaps, but a Jetta Sportwagen TDI, especially if it's a manual, is hard to duplicate. I grabbed my '15 when the leftovers came available because I was pretty confident that I'd never see this combination available in the North American market again: Wagon/Diesel/Manual transmission.

And 50K on these cars is nothing. It really is just barely broken in. If you love the car, get the fix, take the money for that, and keep it. If you don't, then take the buyback. Because if you're not in love with the car and you pass on the buyback, you're going to kick yourself.

There are new TSI Golf wagons and Golf Alltrack wagons that are very nice. Engineering and fuel efficiency of gasoline engines have improved a lot, and the automatic transmissions, or more properly DSG auto-manuals, are deserving of consideration, even if you are a stick fan. I have had stick manual transmissions on several cars but modern automatics have advantages in speed and efficiency. And in the past five years, there have been improvements in safety and convenience features that are worth having.


Anyone on the fence over taking the buyout owes it to themself to go and drive one of the newer cars. (Disclosure: I have no interest in the selling of cars.)

 

[MichaelB]

Perhaps, but a Jetta Sportwagen TDI, especially if it's a manual, is hard to duplicate.

The real guy coveted manual to me its right up there with the 3K oil change. A DSG is strong and works just fine (the only weak point now is the dual mass flywheel which both transmissions employ) Why would anybody want to use both hands and both feet to drive a car. This is 2018, not 1910.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I wasn't debating diesel versus gas, or manual versus automatic. I was merely stating that if the OP likes his car he won't necessarily be able to duplicate it in the current new car market.

People who drive manuals aren't throwbacks any more than people who drive automatics are lazy or unskilled. Some people prefer manual transmissions. And if you do, the new car choices are very, very limited. VW was one of the last manufacturers to offer manuals in most cars and most trim levels, and now they're not doing either (only base Golf TSIs have a manual, no Passats at all). So for those of us who like manuals (or diesels), hanging on to what we have may be our best option. That's all I'm saying.

 

[MichaelB]

Some people prefer manual transmissions.

Why...........? A manual trans is archaic.
Yet after years of following this forum, the consensus from the manual trans freaks is your a pussy if you don't drive one. They say that they love their wives because they drive a manual. In today's racing manual transmissions are not in the forefront that is why Porsche developed the DSG in the first place. To me, a manual trans is like a carburetor vs fuel injection. There were many in the past that said give me a carburetor cuz that is still the real deal it is simpler and more reliable than fuel injection.

 

[turbobrick240]

Why...........? A manual trans is archaic.

I find the driving experience with a manual trans. to be more engaging. I like that in a sporty car. The dsg can be fun too- different strokes for different folks. In a few years all of our ICE cars will be seen as archaic.

 

[MichaelB]

I find the driving experience with a manual trans. to be more engaging. I like that in a sporty car.

The VW TDI's are on the edge of being a sporty car. The reality is the TDI or IDI's clunky old 70's era VW diesel rabbits were designed and built to be an economy car and back in the day when the TDI's first hit the American market they weren't built as a sports car they were built as an econobox hence the manual trans (cheep).

 

[KITEWAGON]

Yet after years of following this forum, the consensus from the manual trans freaks is your a pussy if you don't drive one. They say that they love their wives because they drive a manual.

Funny, I don't think that I've ever read anything of the sort on this forum. Lots of folks here prefer driving a manual, but I don't think I've read disparaging things about people who prefer an automatic.

 

[MichaelB]

Funny, I don't think that I've ever read anything of the sort on this forum. Lots of folks here prefer driving a manual, but I don't think I've read disparaging things about people who prefer an automatic.

Mr. Kite.........that is my point it's always about how great the manual is and that infers those who don't drive one are pussies. I'm 64 and grew up driving my fathers manual trans cars.three on the tree but now in my world today I would prefer not to. I also grew up getting out of my chair to change the channel on my TV ....now we all have remotes. Technology is great for whatever you do including driving a car that does not require both hands and both feet to make it go.

And I have read some things here that say if you can't or don't drive a manual you are incompetent and if you don't ...well take it from there. I'm not going to search back to prove it. You can if you want.

 

[MichaelB]

Lots of folks here prefer driving a manual,

And maybe many prefer not to but they are not the ones always proclaiming that the transmission in their car is so great as those that always seem to have to mention they drive a manual.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I own one car with a modern automatic (the 335d), and it's a great transmssion. Of course that engine makes so much power the transmission doesn't really matter. I've driven a bunch of DSG TDIs, and they're fine. I also drove automatics for about 10 years. However, I just prefer to drive a manual transmission car. It's not about sporty, it's just an activity I enjoy.

I don't buy your carburetor versus fuel injection comparison. Although in all out acceleration modern automatics are faster than manuals, that doesn't matter in daily street driving. And they may not be much less efficient, but they aren't more efficient. And they are equally durable, not more durable. Manuals may no longer be superior to automatics, but they aren't inferior except in a couple extreme circumstances.

I run a web-based business, so I'm not exactly unfamiliar with or afraid of technology. But I've been known to build a wood fire in the fireplace once in a while. And I grill with charcoal, not propane. And I'll probably still drive my own car when autonomous cars become common. Sometimes it's rewarding to do things we like regardless of their currency.

 

[MichaelB]

I own one car with a modern automatic (the 335d), and it's a great transmission. Of course, that engine makes so much power the transmission doesn't really matter. I've driven a bunch of DSG TDI's, and they're fine. I also drove automatics for about 10 years. However, I just prefer to drive a manual transmission car. It's not about sporty, it's just an activity I enjoy.

I don't buy your carburetor versus fuel injection comparison. Although in all-out acceleration modern automatics are faster than manuals, that doesn't matter in daily street driving. And they may not be much less efficient, but they aren't more efficient. And they are equally durable, not more durable. Manuals may no longer be superior to automatics, but they aren't inferior except in a couple extreme circumstances.

I run a web-based business, so I'm not exactly unfamiliar with or afraid of technology. But I've been known to build a wood fire in the fireplace once in a while. And I grill with charcoal, not propane. And I'll probably still drive my own car when autonomous cars become common. Sometimes it's rewarding to do things we like regardless of their currency.

Well said Peter, I gotcha.
I was kinda just speaking to the community at large here about how a DSG is just more comfortable to drive than having to use both feet and both hands. On the freeway, it makes no difference at all because you ain't shifting just cruising manual or auto. Personally, I get no pleasure from shifting a manual trans. This philosophy of being more engaged and one with a machine is just weird to me.
To me my Passat is just a comfortable car with a little European flare.

 

[turbobrick240]

My transmission preferences are pretty machine specific. I like the auto in my plow truck. I'd also probably prefer the auto in an old Crown Vic, and similar land yachts. At the other end of the sporty spectrum, I prefer a manual for my farm tractors.

 

[MichaelB]

My transmission preferences are pretty machine specific. I like the auto in my plow truck. I'd also probably prefer the auto in an old Crown Vic, and similar land yachts. At the other end of the sporty spectrum, I prefer a manual for my farm tractors.

Well, that sez it all! Your TDI is equivalent to a farm tractor.

 

[turbobrick240]

Well, that sez it all! Your TDI is equivalent to a farm tractor.

Sort of. I'd be lying if I said farm tractors were not what sparked my interest in diesels. I don't think any of my tractors could manage a 14 second quarter mile though. Probably wouldn't be much fun to auto-x them either.

 

[av8r]

Getting ready to pull the trigger but before I do I am going to go drive a 2015 Passat 2.L TDI. I need a few data points before I sell back the Jetta TDI at 100K miles (15K buyback). If the '15 doesn't have the sporty feel or makes too much road noise I'll probably just go with the fix. My TDI got new rubber shoes 6K ago and I have new 4 new rotors and brakes sitting in a box ready for install (which Amazon will always take back withing 30 days). Then, when you add in all the stuff I put into the TDI.....fog lights, premium Nav, rear view mirror, etc etc. Decision time here.........

 

[MichaelB]

Getting ready to pull the trigger but before I do I am going to go drive a 2015 Passat 2.L TDI. I need a few data points before I sell back the Jetta TDI at 100K miles (15K buyback). If the '15 doesn't have the sporty feel or makes too much road noise I'll probably just go with the fix. My TDI got new rubber shoes 6K ago and I have new 4 new rotors and brakes sitting in a box ready for install (which Amazon will always take back withing 30 days). Then, when you add in all the stuff I put into the TDI.....fog lights, premium Nav, rear view mirror, etc etc. Decision time here.........

Exactly! When I considered the buyback for my Passat with 35k on the Odo, I also considered the mods that I had installed......FSD dampers, H&R springs, and rear bar, DG skid plate, new Pirelli tires, Nicktane fuel filter, P3 vent gage it became a no-brainer to take the 7.6k check for the fix and extended warrant and drive on, worry less. Hell the car is just one year older than a 95 (with a unicorn engine) and right now is at 44k.
I bought it for cash so there was no loan or lease no other brands interested me except maybe the new diesel equinox.
I wanted a TDI Passat and I have one why change canoes in the middle of the stream?

If someone offered me a check to buyback my 4-year-old dog for a new puppy my answer would be "no way" I already have time invested and he is trained to be just how I like him. Sorta like the mods that I have on my car. Yeah, the new dog would live for a longer time of my life but in the end, would probably die before I do.