Operation for mpg success!

Venturabass

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Location
Stonington, CT
TDI
2001 VW Jetta TDI GLS, tornado red, 5spd
I just thought I'd make this post about a recent test I performed. I've read a lot about obtaining maximum fuel economy by driving at around 55-60mph. So I thought I'd give it a shot, and here are the results...but first a few things...

I have a 2001 VW Jetta TDI with 51,000 miles, 5 speed manual, and the powertrain is completely stock. I use a 15 gallon treatment of Stanadyne Performance Formula everytime I fill up. When I fill up, I do not vent, I simply fill until the fuel line is about 1.5" below the top of the stem, then cap it up. I run my tires at about 42psi up front, 40 in the back. In normal driving conditions I hardly get over 3K rpm in all conditions. Highways I usually drive 75-80mph, city usually 45 regardless of posted limits, traffic pending, and usually in 5th gear when possible. I live in CT, where the summers average 80-90 degrees with pretty good humidity most of the time and few cool days after a cold front has passed through. Elevation is no more than a few 100 feet, I'm right near the ocean. I usually get about 45-46 mpg range. My weekly driving consists of work 15 miles one way (city and highway) and traveling to MA (highway) on the weekend. Lastly, I prefer windows over AC most of the time.

Now, my test had a few specifications.

1. I believed that running the car at 55-60mph whenever possible would acheive the greatest fuel economy because (in 5th gear) the engine sits right around max torque at 1900rpm. Highway driving was considered to be very slow relative to traffic, while city driving was a lot faster than most folks.

2. No A/C use, and no windows unless speeds were low enough around 40mph or so. This was obviously to reduce drag and extra engine work. This sucked.

3. When I was accelerating, try my best to never run the engine at over 2000 rpm. Again this way, to keep it at max torque at all times. Accelerating was therefore very slow, but I'm sure this helped when pulling a cold engine out on the road in town.

THE RESULT:
This took about a week. Driving was mixed city and hwy. I'd say 70% of the miles were hwy, but I also got stuck in some bumper to bumper situations and congested city traffic. Cruise control was used as much as possible, a must in the freeway. I marked up 677.5 miles (633 when the fuel light came on) and the total fill up was 13.134 gallons. That puts me at 51.584mpg for the entire tank. I doubt it was a fluke, as the fuel gage moved much faster around town, and when on long hwy trips, it was apparent that I was getting this kind of mileage.

CONCLUSION:
I've always read stuff about fuel mileage in the 50's on this site and I was always sceptical. I have only gotten to 49.6mpg once in the 25K miles that I've owned this car. I've been in sub-zero temps with a ****ty MAF sensor, getting 35.5mpg on a tank, *in pain*. haha. I now understand with the right operating techniques how to make this engine shine. I can only imagine if these miles were all one continuous highway trip in the spring or fall when temps were cooler! Thanks for reading, and please share any comments!
 

catmandoo

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Location
ia
TDI
2000 jetta gls tdi,91 2dr jetta gl n/a diesel
yep went i vent i can get about another 2 1/2 gallons in for sure,and i usually run 55-60 very few 65 and i have consistently run over 50,with my high so far of 55.3,since then i have replaced the t-belt and my second run with it with the timing slightly advanced to dead-on yielded 53.3 and that was with about an hour of town driving,if i could do a good highway run i'm positive i'd break my 55.3 record.
 

DrSmile

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Location
New Jersey USA
TDI
05 GLS PD 5spd Wagon
Doesn't this type of result just scream for taller gearing? It isn't the speed after all, it's the rpms (ok sans wind resistance). The TDI's strong suit is torque at low rpms, why not make a 5th from the factory that lets you go 75 at 2000rpm? I remember someone saying there is a really tall Audi 5th gear that fits, but they weren't very helpful sharing further info... It was much taller than even the .71, I think it was .60?
 

VelvetFoot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2001
Location
Sand Lake, NY
TDI
NB, 2000, Yellow
I have the .71. I remember looking for a taller gear but never found it. It would be more of a drop from 4th to 5th though.
 

meganuke

TDIClub Contributor, Vendor
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Location
VA/CT
TDI
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid
VelvetFoot, do you have a source and part # for the .71 gear? How difficult was the install and how much did the parts cost?
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
I've been looking for a taller 5th as well... How much of an rpm difference is there between stock and .71? I would like to get something like 2000rpm/70mph since I do 95% of my driving on the highway at pretty high speeds..
 

DrSmile

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Location
New Jersey USA
TDI
05 GLS PD 5spd Wagon
Stock is .75. It makes about a 150rpm difference. I have not done the install yet because I can't justify the price (about $300) for new gears and I haven't had the chance to go to the junkyards to read tranny codes. The install is relatively easy as 5th gear sits on top of the case in most transaxles, VW included. This means you don't have to drop the transmission to swap out the gear. It also means 5th gear isn't a gear you ever want to drag race in because it's inherently weaker.
 

HopefulFred

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
Golf, 2006, Indigo Blue
The taller gear should help you get better economy at the same speed, but be careful what your expectations are. The wording of that first statement is very precise. At highway speeds wind resistance is the largest factor, and increases with the square of speed. Don't expect to get the same fuel economy at the same rpm - increased speed will require more fuel.

(I don't want to start anything, but be realistic about the change this will make to your car.)
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
Well I do a lot of high speed driving (90-100mph) so I guess I'm looking for a little more top end (redline is 125mph) because it seems like it'll keep going if I had some taller gears.. Plus I could get a little more fuel economy around 70mph when I'm not pushing it so hard.. I'm not sure I could justify the cost of the gears and the time for the install for a 150rpm difference.... I would think with stock at .75, something like .65-.67 would give me what I'm looking for...
 

watercop

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Location
Clay County, FL
I looked for but never found a 5th taller than the 0.717. I went with that and a reduced R&P. All this was NOT cheap and it'll take a couple million miles to pay for itself. I went from 57 mph to 64 mph at 2k rpm, about a 12% difference. Highway mpg went up approx 4.

My car is definitely more enjoyable to drive. Engine noise is reduced and it feels "leggier" - not as buzzy.

The only guy I know to have come anywhere near the holy grail of 75 mph at 2,000 rpm is SVTWEB. he is a member here and imported a six speed manual transmission from Europe and went through an incredibly detailed install process detailed elsewhere here.

I don't know what my top speed would now be, but in theory 4k rpm would give me 128 mph, but I haven't the cojones to try it...
 

watercop

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Location
Clay County, FL
Yes, a really tall 5th would be a good compromise - maybe around 0.60, especially since it is fairly easy to remove / replace.

I like the idea of a six speed so that 1st can be really low for maneuvering from a dead stop on steep slopes or on gravel, sand, or soft ground. 2nd through 5th for normal driving, and then a superhigh 6th that one would only use at maybe 60 mph and up. That would be my ideal tranny setup. This country is fixated upon high accelleration still being available in top gear so as to be able to drive aggressively on expressways, I guess.

America is undergeared!
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Too bad there's no way to fit an "auxilary overdrive" similar to what's on our F-250. Best of both worlds for towing and economy.

I looked into getting a 6speed, but with all the nessesary "add-on" parts it was a bit over $2000, which I would go for but the wife says otherwise.
 

GotDiesel?

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 11, 2000
Location
Pacific NW
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
Not to dissuade anybody else, but I would probably lose economy if I had a really tall 5th gear.

As it is, if traffic on the freeways I travel routinely drops much below the speed limit (60 mph), I have to drop down to 4th to stay at or above 2K rpm. (I like to stay above 2K to avoid turbo surges.)

The only time I could use a .60 - .65 gear would be way out of town where the speed limits go up to 70. The rest of the time, I'd have to be in 4th.

A 6-speed is the way VW should've gone. I wouldn't be spending much time in 6th, but it would be nice to have.
 

SCCAONE

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Location
Sierra Vista, Arizona
TDI
03/GOLF
To do this right you need to use the ring and pinion gear from a 98 Jetta TDI transmission code CTN 3.157 verses our 3.389, that combined with the .71 5th gear that should be the best of both worlds, kills some of the torque multiplication down low and better cruising.
 

ArturCosta

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Location
Portugal
TDI
Audi A4 Avant 1996 Silver
Well I own a Audi 1.9TDI 110bhp and in 5th at 2000rpm it does more less 105kmh(65mph)... I have already 270k kms on de odometer and I have to say that the best MPG at highway are done at more less 2800rpm (80mph).Why? Well the highways have uphill and downhill parts , and going uphill ate 2000rpm I have to acelarate to mantain speed , but if im going faster I can mantain the trottle possition and make a better average.
My normal average is 6,5L/100km driving at 90-100mph at 3500rpm... but when driving at 80-85mph I get 5.6L/100km.(Sorry I tried to do the MPG convertion but I couldnt)

So the theory of best MPG at 2000rpm is only without uphills...

Cheers
 

spuimatt

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Location
West Michigan
TDI
2003 Indigo Blue Golf TDI
I drive about 70 miles a day (85-90% freeway) and have been recently trying to stay between 65 and 70 mph to increase fuel efficiency. Now as I browse around this site, I read about carbon build-up and wonder what is the best compromise between fuel efficiency and keeping the engine clean?

Matt
2003 VW Golf TDI (stock)
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
So the theory of best MPG at 2000rpm is only without uphills...

Cheers
Having owned a Honda Insight for 30xxx miles. The insight had an very accurate instant MPG display. I could get high MPG in 3,4, or 5th gear. The trick just like any car is engine load or increasing the load. In order to get great MPG's try and hit a hill with enough speed that you'll be able to ever slightly decrease thottle. Try and reach the top of the hill without dropping below 5mph less than the speed limit. Then use the down side of the hill to ever slightly increase the speed back up for the next hill. If you have a boost gauge -- keep it less than 8psi.

What happens at 2000rpms on a hill is the turbo shoots the boost up to 10-14psi and dumps more fuel into the engine. To create the torque needed to pull the hill. 14psi is alot of heat. Heat is waste. Waste is less MPG's.

If only VW came with a display as good as the Honda insight. People would get at least 5 more mpgs!
 

gdr703

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Location
Vancouver, Canada
TDI
Golf 2 door 2002 Indigo
I read about carbon build-up and wonder what is the best compromise between fuel efficiency and keeping the engine clean?
Use a fuel additive that cleans the injectors, such as Howes Meaner Power Kleaner, or Chevron Dieselmotive, and there are others.
 

gdr703

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Location
Vancouver, Canada
TDI
Golf 2 door 2002 Indigo
The trick just like any car is engine load or increasing the load. In order to get great MPG's try and hit a hill with enough speed that you'll be able to ever slightly decrease thottle. Try and reach the top of the hill without dropping below 5mph less than the speed limit. Then use the down side of the hill to ever slightly increase the speed back up for the next hill.
What happens at 2000rpms on a hill is the turbo shoots the boost up to 10-14psi and dumps more fuel into the engine.
That probably would work well for a gasser, but I dont think it works for the TDI.
Going up hill you want to allow the speed to drop as you go into the hill, then drive hard (heavy right foot, 5th gear) up the hill. Hit the top of the hill at your desired speed, which maybe faster than what you started at.

Going down hill, you do not want to just touch the pedal that's the worst, let it roll in overrun with no pedal, if the car slows, then use good chunk of right foot to bring speed up.
Least that's my experience.
hth
73,388 miles in 3.5 years at 59.3 mpUSg
 

spuimatt

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Location
West Michigan
TDI
2003 Indigo Blue Golf TDI
Use a fuel additive that cleans the injectors, such as Howes Meaner Power Kleaner, or Chevron Dieselmotive, and there are others.
How often do you use the injector cleaner? Does this help with the intake build-up problem I've heard about?
 

gdr703

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Location
Vancouver, Canada
TDI
Golf 2 door 2002 Indigo
How often do you use the injector cleaner? Does this help with the intake build-up problem I've heard about?
I use it say three tanks in row twice/thrice a year.

I have 74,100 miles on my 2002 TDI and my intake is fine, so I guess it does help. (?)

hth
 

ArturCosta

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Location
Portugal
TDI
Audi A4 Avant 1996 Silver
I never used injector cleaner in 260k Kms!Did only clean the intake at 260k just to be shure it was ok.

So 5.6L/100 is 42mpg?
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
I drive about 70 miles a day (85-90% freeway) and have been recently trying to stay between 65 and 70 mph to increase fuel efficiency. Now as I browse around this site, I read about carbon build-up and wonder what is the best compromise between fuel efficiency and keeping the engine clean?
Your cruising speed is fine. Just occasionally use a heavy right foot to accelerate up to that cruising speed. Intake clogging can affect any TDI, but it typically happens sooner to those who baby their engines all the time.
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
That probably would work well for a gasser, but I dont think it works for the TDI.
Going up hill you want to allow the speed to drop as you go into the hill, then drive hard (heavy right foot, 5th gear) up the hill. Hit the top of the hill at your desired speed, which maybe faster than what you started at.

Going down hill, you do not want to just touch the pedal that's the worst, let it roll in overrun with no pedal, if the car slows, then use good chunk of right foot to bring speed up.
Least that's my experience.
hth
73,388 miles in 3.5 years at 59.3 mpUSg
Physics don't agree with your thoughts. But I am impressed with your lifetime MPG's. Going full throttle and up a hill has to worst method to climb a hill. Then slow down on the downside of the hill!?!?! Use gravity to your advantage.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
I drive slow on the highway (60 MPH), coast whenever I need to slow down (but anticipate way in advance) or down sizable hills, keep the tire pressures at about 38 front/43 rear. I also tend to short shift a bit and keep my RPMs as near as to 1900 as much as possible. A/C is used only on the hottest days too. Doing that netted me a 50 MPG tank in my PD and that was for combined city/highway driving.

--Nate
 

gdr703

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Location
Vancouver, Canada
TDI
Golf 2 door 2002 Indigo
Use gravity to your advantage.
That's correct I do.
I also use to my advantage the characteristics of the engine.
This engine is more fuel efficient per HP when producing 25HP than when producing 5HP. (at any rpm).
It likes a bit of work to do.
So dont pussy foot it.

cheers
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
I forgot to add that when I coast, its in neutral, unless I have to slow down faster, then its in gear, taking advantage of the fuel cut-off feature of engine over-run.

--Nate
 
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