New VW Golf Variant Spy Photos

rcnaylor

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Location
Amarillo, TX
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportswagen Silver
Lex, I wouldn't argue with your sentiments, until you got to traction control. That is like arguing against putting anti-lock brakes on a new car. The technology is there and too good to be ignored because we "got by ok without it in the past."

FWIW, here is what happens when you find yourself on black ice from freezing fog (absolutely the smoothest, most deceptive and slipperiest stuff on earth), without traction control and its instantaneous reaction time:

 

cptmox

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
How could an SUV possibly crash in the winter? They're 4x4, and therefore 100% accident proof in slippery conditions! :rolleyes:
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
rcnaylor said:
Lex, I wouldn't argue with your sentiments, until you got to traction control. That is like arguing against putting anti-lock brakes on a new car. The technology is there and too good to be ignored because we "got by ok without it in the past."

FWIW, here is what happens when you find yourself on black ice from freezing fog (absolutely the smoothest, most deceptive and slipperiest stuff on earth), without traction control and its instantaneous reaction time:
Actually I wouldn't even consider a car with just traction control. It's yesterday's technology. VW's ESP stability control rocks! Stability control is the way of the future and any car that doesn't at least offer stability control at the option level I want, won't be on my Next Car List.

Lex was also against ABS brakes.

Can't have ESP without ABS...the former uses the latter to get the job done.

Hell nobody would bother to buy a car without seatbelts, turn signals and disc brakes. Technology makes progress and it makes sense to embrace technology that makes driving safer without sacrificing the fun factor too much.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
My car still has rear drums, and many cars TODAY are sold with rear drums. ;)

Heck, I think ABS is still an option on some cars...
 

Variant TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Location
SS, MD.
TDI
2002 Golf Variant, Reflex Silver
rcnaylor said:
FWIW, here is what happens when you find yourself on black ice from freezing fog (absolutely the smoothest, most deceptive and slipperiest stuff on earth), without traction control and its instantaneous reaction time:
Are you saying that any form of magic would have prevented that moose from mating with that pole?

Because I seriously doubt it.

Traction Control can only control the traction that's there.

All those doohickeys do is raise the confidence level, which raises the speed, which puts you just as close to the edge of safety as you were when you knew that car control was your responsibility.

The only difference will be how fast you're going when the computer fails to save you.
 
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LexDM3

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2002
Location
Arlington, MA
TDI
JSW 2010, Golf GLS 2002
I am a fan of ABS!

PlaneCrazy said "Lex was also against ABS brakes" in a posting above. If that meant me, read my original post again. I said, "I do not need or want all wheel drive. (new sentence) ABS, traction control, and a set of Nokian WR tires for the winter can get me anywhere I need to go in New England."

I'm a huge believer in ABS and traction control, whatever acronym is used for it. Add a set of Nokian WR tires, which are all season tires but have the snowflake symbol and are as good as pure snow tires, and you can go through anything. All wheel drive costs more to buy and operate, is heavier, reduces acceleration and fuel economy, etc. Car companies market to our fears of getting stuck, but I don't need AWD to get through snow and ice and I bet you don't either.

I'm headed out the door right now to drive in falling snow with my Golf TDI. Put the Nokians on last week. I'm good to go...

--Dan
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Sorry Lex, read too fast.

Anyway, now I want/need a Golf Variant TDI real bad since Missus PlaneCrazy totalled the Jetta last Thursday (or at least I think/hope it will be declared a write-off; fortunately she walked away without a scratch). I can still get a base MkIV Jetta TDI wagon (brand-new 2006), there are still a couple left up here. But I'm not so inclined. Why invest $30k in a MkIV when the MkIV Jetta City can be had for $17k right off the lot? That's bound to depreciate the TDI faster. You have to drive a heck of a lot to make up a $13k price premium, or really really need a wagon.

So I've narrowed my choice down to an A5 Jetta TDI sedan with leather/sunroof/mags, or a base Passat 2.0T wagon as the runner-up should the Missus declare she absolutely MUST have another wagon. Both cars will come in at about $31-32k CDN, and my replacement cost insurance will pony up $30k should the car be declared a hull loss, so we should be in business.

Too bad this couldn't have happened in 2008 when I still had replacement cost coverage and the new 140 hp TDIs are here (one hopes). Oh well, at least nobody got hurt and the car is covered. I'm just real scared that they will attempt to fix it. There is clearly well over $10k in damages including severe damage in the engine compartment (rad support, rad, intercooler, intake, wiring harnesses, brackets, etc).
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
Variant TDI said:
Are you saying that any form of magic would have prevented that moose from mating with that pole?

Because I seriously doubt it.

Traction Control can only control the traction that's there.

All those doohickeys do is raise the confidence level, which raises the speed, which puts you just as close to the edge of safety as you were when you knew that car control was your responsibility.

The only difference will be how fast you're going when the computer fails to save you.
Hear hear. I hold a lot of opinions in a similar vein, that vein being "Technology is great, but as tech distances us from our responsibilities we're going to get more lax and therefore no net increase in safety."

ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control; basically, anything that "does it for you" with regards to keeping your driving safe is a thing to be wary of, in my opinion. I can and have even extended this out to such things as limited slip differentials and, yes, even the automatic transmission. Driving requires attention, skill and both hands. If you start lowering the skill and attention requirements, you're automatically making the entire act much more unsafe.

Now, I am not saying that any of these are necessarily "bad" things. All of them are quite the opposite, they are very good things when applied without a loss of responsibility in the driver's hands. Used properly in the hands of an experienced driver who is paying attention, traction control practically guarantees that you will never get stuck again, and that your chances of recovering from the beginnings of a spin out will increase several times over. Likewise, used properly by a skilled, attentive driver, ABS will prevent or severely lessen "quick response" accidents. But too many people have come to rely absolutely on the fact that they have the all-powerful "ABS brakes" to keep them out of an accident; they don't follow proper rules for following distances behind another vehicle, they drive more aggressively, they react more slowly and punch the brakes harder because they won't lock up and lose control like they would have before. Same for the traction control, people have come to treat it like some kind of magical charm against loss of traction, and therefore will drive more aggressively than the situation demands.

Making all this equipment standard on all new cars won't make the roads any safer.

Now, why does this not apply to such things as seat belts, air bags (Though I am kinda leery of filling the blasted things with airbags for every reason), or disc brakes?

Disc brakes are the easiest to handle: They address a design flaw that, while not fatal under any but extreme circumstances, is significant. Namely, that of brake overheating. While this may or may not have been the original intention behind their creation, it nonetheless makes them completely worthy of being standard. Drum brakes are fairly easy to overheat even in fairly "normal" usage, especially in warmer climates or very compact vehicles (which tends to place them in close proximity to either the engine or the exhaust system). The large amount of metal involved in a drum and the face that the actual braking surface is never applied to cooling air makes them inherently more prone to retaining the heat generated by braking friction. This heating is made even more pronounced by the fact that the braking surface of a drum is used in common by both friction pads. Overheated drums will crack, warp, and have on occasion even outright shattered without forewarning. Enter the disc brake. Less metal, easier to ventilate, braking surfaces are directly exposed to cooling air, and the two friction pads do not share a common braking face/surface. These improvements don't take any responsibility away from the common driver with regards to his own safety, but they do give the driver much more repeatability and reliability with regards to safety performance. The driver can now drive with more peace of mind, knowing that when he or she needs the brakes they will perform as expected.

It's an interesting thing to note that for a given vehicle weight, properly sized drum brakes will actually stop the car more quickly than disc brakes, due to the much, much larger surface area to which friction can be applied. This would be the primary reason why heavy vehicles persist in using drum brakes on all four (six, eight, whatever) wheels, though there is a trend toward fitting them with discs to prevent the overheating issues mentioned above.

Seat belts, air bags? Grey area. In an ideal world, they wouldn't be necessary. However, there are things that are out of the realm of any reasonable claim of driver responsibility: that tree that just happened to come crashing down right in front of you, the other driver who out of nowhere slammed into your car, runaway vehicles, and other such things. None of these cases are instances where the driver in question could really do much of anything to prevent the accident, even with proper attention and skill. Sometimes things just stack up too far against someone. In these instances, it's good to have something else "watching out for you." With seatbelts or airbags (Or crumple zones, or any other "last ditch" safety system) you aren't giving up your responsibility as a driver, you're covering bases on the times when those responsibilities just aren't enough. If they were marketed as such, I wouldn't have any problem with them at all. Instead they are generally tagged as being designed to keep you comfortable and safe no matter what happened, no thought required on your part.

Yikes that's a soapbox rant, I'll be slinking off now...
 

ALAND

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Location
Durham, NC
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon, Spice Red, Tan Leather, 5sp.
Variant TDI said:
Are you saying that any form of magic would have prevented that moose from mating with that pole?

Because I seriously doubt it.

Traction Control can only control the traction that's there.

All those doohickeys do is raise the confidence level, which raises the speed, which puts you just as close to the edge of safety as you were when you knew that car control was your responsibility.

The only difference will be how fast you're going when the computer fails to save you.
VWs ESP saved us from a nasty rear-end collision. You know the story, dark night, foggy, rainy and slick, heavy traffic, crazy drivers jumping from lane to lane, sudden brake lights, followed by me threading the car between 2 lanes to avoid the crash. I had no time for anything but a panic stop, but ended up with the front end of the car about 3 feet past the rear bumper of the car in front of me, and cars were speeding by in the adjacent lanes. That was a rental, and it sealed the deal for me: when I bought the Jetta I only looked at those with ESP. Fortunately, it hasn't even been activated in this car, except when I've gunned it with one wheel on wet leaves...
 
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TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
PlaneCrazy said:
Oh well, at least nobody got hurt and the car is covered. I'm just real scared that they will attempt to fix it. There is clearly well over $10k in damages including severe damage in the engine compartment (rad support, rad, intercooler, intake, wiring harnesses, brackets, etc).
That doesn't seem like enough damage to justify totaling the car. Perhaps $8000 US, so less than $10k CD.
 

RC

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Joined
Oct 13, 2000
Location
Maryland`s Eastern Shore
TDI
Two White 96 B4 Wagons
PlaneCrazy said:
... since Missus PlaneCrazy totalled the Jetta last Thursday...
Sorry to hear PC. Glad she is OK though.

I sure would hate to get a call from the Mrs. that we were one car short now. :eek: :( :mad:
 

PlaneCrazy

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Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
TornadoRed said:
That doesn't seem like enough damage to justify totaling the car. Perhaps $8000 US, so less than $10k CD.
Note I said "well over" $10k. Just how much over remains to be seen. The policy is 75% of book value is a write-off. Book value is about $18k at the moment, so $13500 is a write-off. The $10k I arrived at is just for the damage I know what will cost based on previous experience. There are numerous items I didn't tally (like the intercooler or roof) as I don't know the price. The tin itself is about $8k-$9k according to the body man; front suspension and rad mount I know from experience are about $2k each. Rear suspension is ?, and we haven't tallied the underhood damage. And there's a whopping list of small stuff: two front tires, headlights, grilles, two front wheels, etc etc. The body man said it would be very close to a total if it isn't in fact totalled.
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
badgolfer said:
How about one of those with the 170hp diesel, 6-speed manual, and all wheel drive?
How about the one with 105hp Diesel, 6-speed DSG, and all wheel drive? I like the idea of fuel economy so I would go with the 105hp which should be very good on fuel and still have a hefty amount of torque.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Interestingly, if you make a 3-cyl version of the PD or CR140 2.0TDI, you come up with a 105hp engine.
 
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