Jordan's C5 Allroad --> BHW TDI

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
After spending some seat time in my B4V, wrench time under the B4V, and hearing comments from the other half about how homeless we look whilst driving it, I knew it was time to start looking for a successor.
My mother drives a B6V 2.0T 6MT which is a very nice driving car so I had considered a B6 transplant like Steve, but with more advanced electronics and rust prone chassis, I pushed that aside.
I wanted a large wagon with good storage capacity so I started looking toward B5.5 wagons or the C5 A6/Allroad chassis. I love the B7 audi chassis as well but they're just a little small to be practical for me. Since I didn't particularly like the looks of the B5.5, I started looking for Allroads which was fuelled further by posts like @caffeine 's Allroad build. I realized that the Allroad is hot dip galvanized whereas the B5.5/B6 are just electroplated so it should be less rust prone than the Passat wagon counterparts.

From a size perspective, the Allroad is a winner as well:

________________________B4V____B5.5_____B6_____Allroad __A6V
Length (in)_______________181____184.3____188____189.3____179.4
Wheelbase (in)___________103.3__106.4____106.7___108.5____101.5
Rear cargo (ft^3)_________34.2____39_______35.8___36.4_____32.8
Front Track (in)___________57.5___59.6______61.1____62______60.7
Front headroom (in)_______38.2___37.8______38.3____37.5____38.4
Front shoulder room (in) ___55____55.8______55.7____58.6____54.8
Rear headroom (in)______38.3____37.9______38.6_____38.4___38.1
Rear shoulder room (in)___54_____54.6______54.6_____56.9___53.1
Curb weight (lb)_________3175___4593______4775____4244___3285

After daily searching for months, I was stoked to find a monochrome Allroad instead of the typical tupperware versions where the plastics are different colors. This is a 2.7T car with a 6MT and a blown clutch. The immediate plan is to get the car going with the 2.7T and a wrecker clutch (thanks @caffeine again!) so I can fix some of the bugs before embarking on the full swap. Unfortunately, many little bits are missing (both sway bars, rear under bumper trim, front strut tower brace, headlight washers, trunk carpet etc.). Thankfully, I've been able to collect quite a few of the items from a couple different trips to the wreckers. The car has been converted to coilovers as well so there are no airbag issues to chase at this point.

The plan is for a BHW/ 3.89 02X. Shortly after collecting the car, I was able to collect a 3.89 EUT diff and automatic Allroad driveline per the recipe from @caffeine. Him and I have been swapping 3D models of the 02X mounting brackets to suit the Allroad as well.



Little Datsun and big Audi



Then this happened a couple months later. A 2004 Passat with a blown trans/torque converter.



I was able to recoup some $$ by selling the S5 wheels off the Allroad with half cooked winters for $1000 and a spare set of (ironically 5x100) winters that came from the Passat for $300. After that, I needed to scare up a set of wheels to run on the Allroad. I have a set of forged C5 V8 wheels (17x8 +35) so I looked around for some suitable winter tires and stumbled on some studded Hakkapeliitta tires at a local dealer that were orphaned after a summer staycation and paid only $200 for the set! At 215/65/17, they're 1" taller than stock Allroad wheels (215/65/16) so that will provide some extra gearing advantage for the diesel.

When compared to the B4V 175/70/14s, they look HUGE!



For summer, I have a staggered set of R8 wheels to fit the Allroad (19x8.5 and 19x11 with 245/40/19 and 275/35/19). These should do the job of filling out the massive wheel wells!

A few weeks back, I was on the never ending hunt for parts when I stumbled upon an unloved Allroad being sold by a retired fellow that was sick of wrenching on it. It needs the engine out to fix exhaust leaks near the turbos, needs the front suspension arms gone through (new set provided), and has a slow leaking rear bag (spare set provided) and has a temperamental auto trans. Based on these issues, I got a pretty good deal on it and now have ALL the parts to fix the missing widgets on mine!
I convinced the gentleman to drive across from Vancouver Island on the ferry to deliver the car which was a huge help! It's tan on dark blue with black ish bumpers and is a pretty clean looking unit! Based on what I've seen so far, this could potentially be a better swap candidate... We will see.



My last trip the Pick n Pull in Calgary set me up with one of the required axles for the 02X swap, a set of C5 V8 rear aluminum knuckles with aluminum rear Lucas calipers for 269x22 vented rotors, and a set of large plunger BEW injectors (for future power build on the BHW)!




Needless to say, I'm INVESTED in the project now! I just need to spend the time getting all 3 of these cars the 500 miles from Dad at the coast up to my place so I can get to work on them!

More to come as it comes available. For now though, I'll keep miling out the B4V.
 
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Petra's cousin

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Location
Calgary
TDI
Mk VI TDI Golf Wagon
Also interested in seeing progress. I’ve owned both a B5 Passat wagon and a C5 Allroad, interior in the hatch is bigger on the B5, shoulder room in the C5 is bigger (but not much). Current owner of a A6 Sportwagen and I still miss the size of the B5.
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
Also interested in seeing progress. I’ve owned both a B5 Passat wagon and a C5 Allroad, interior in the hatch is bigger on the B5, shoulder room in the C5 is bigger (but not much). Current owner of a A6 Sportwagen and I still miss the size of the B5.
Thanks! I added the A6V to the upper chart for comparison's sake. Your comments on Caffeine's thread were further validation that this build was a good endeavour.
 

Koehn

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2005 A4 Avant Quattro 6-Speed (AVF)
Glad to see you started your thread! And what a great looking wagon for a project. I'll definitely be following!
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
I have yet to drive a converted c5 allroad with a 1.9/2.0 tdi engine, I only had 2.5 v6 tdi and the early models were a lot better to tune compared to later ones (solid alloy front intercooler and more potent vp44 pumps). I also think the 4 cyl engine is a toad too strung for moving the best part of 2 tonnes but probably a 250 bhp/500nm should be sufficient !
There is a reason why they never made a Quattro with the 4 cylinder Diesel engine, in detuned form is rather slow…
 

caffeine

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
03 Allroad w/04 BHW/02X conversion, 00 ALH Jetta
They made lots of quattros in Europe with the 4 cylinder TDI. Worth keeping in mind that the BHW makes only around 20 ft lbs less than the original 2.7T.
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
They made lots of quattros in Europe with the 4 cylinder TDI. Worth keeping in mind that the BHW makes only around 20 ft lbs less than the original 2.7T.
They Did make quattros with 4 cyl Diesel engines but they were 16 valves and cross flow engines(pd and cr). They also had better turbos than the asthmatic gt1749va as well. Personally I had a b6 2004 1.9 tdi Quattro and that had a lot of weight savings compared with same model v6 tdi…
 

caffeine

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
03 Allroad w/04 BHW/02X conversion, 00 ALH Jetta
They Did make quattros with 4 cyl Diesel engines but they were 16 valves and cross flow engines(pd and cr). They also had better turbos than the asthmatic gt1749va as well. Personally I had a b6 2004 1.9 tdi Quattro and that had a lot of weight savings compared with same model v6 tdi…
Not what I had in mind.. I was thinking more specifically of the B7 BPW engine which is almost identical to the BHW including being 8V and including the same turbo.
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
I’m meeting up with this fella ^ next week so can provide some feedback on the seat of the pants feeling!
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
I took caffeine’s car for a spin today and I have to say that it’s rekindled my project motivation!

It moves along just fine despite its girthy size. More power is always nice but it certainly is capable of earning plenty of fast driving awards!

I’ll hopefully have my car mobile again this weekend so that I can drive it back and start fixing some of the bugs and further planning for diesel goodness!
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
Thanks Bob. Hopefully, this one will be more functional than that one!
 

miniCotulla

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Location
Austria
TDI
Passat B5 1.9TDI PD
They Did make quattros with 4 cyl Diesel engines but they were 16 valves and cross flow engines(pd and cr). They also had better turbos than the asthmatic gt1749va as well. Personally I had a b6 2004 1.9 tdi Quattro and that had a lot of weight savings compared with same model v6 tdi…
The B6 1.9tdi was 8V with 1749VA just like any othe 130hp PD. The Passat came with that engine and quattro too and weighs as much as an A6.
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
I had a busy weekend down on the coast a few weeks ago... completed timing belt on 2.7T, finished connecting/filling etc after having the engine out previously for the clutch replacement. I spent some time playing with wheels and tires as well. A while back I found a set of Forged Fuchs Macan wheels which are 5x112, 18x8 +21 and 18x9 +21 which are obviously ideal for the Allroad. With that said, they were adopted and have a better home now. I really like how they look and the price was right. Ironically, they're lighter than the C5 V8 wheels I currently have winters on (they're 17x8 @ 11.2kg vs both Macans @ 10.0kg). For now though, they will hang on the wall as I got tires mounted on the R8 wheels. 19x8.5/19x11 with 245/40 and 275/35 (height matched) tires.





I discovered just how garbage aftermarket CV shafts fit during my reassembly. The shaft flanges have no piloting on the output shafts and the pilots are ~1/4" loose on diameter. I used a pair of mowed down flat head cap screws to pilot the flanges concentrically with the bolts while I installed the OE bolts. Once the OE bolts were snug, the flat heads can be removed and replaced with OE bolts. Seems to work alright in a pinch. I have a collection of OEM axles for the 02X swap though!



Here's how the car looks with 215/65/17 winters on. I still have some height tweaking to do.



Unfortunately, I discovered that a head gasket on the 2.7 leaks during my 600 mile trip home so the car was ditched for a staycation at a friend's place midway. At purchase, it was so crippled with the clutch that I couldn't even test drive it. Without sustained boost driving around the city, there did not appear to be anything amiss when I initially drove it around.
I'm kicking myself for wasting time and $$ on fluids,TB, used clutch etc. trying to build a driver before the diesel swap but you live and learn.

I picked up a 65K mile 02X during this trip as well so I am getting closer to having a suitable parts collecting for a diesel goon!
I rebuilt the shift linkage with an Aliexpress bushing and it fit mint! For $10, you can't go too far wrong. OEM is ~$100 CAD to my door.

In a couple weeks, I'll go pick up the car and trailer it home. More to come then
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
Not much new to report here… got the silver beast home. The B4V collection is growing so that’s taking up some time; however, I was able to get my hands on another parts car (20 miles away). It’s a write off due to door damage on the drivers side and it’s missing the center diff, headlights, and some engine piping and covers etc.
The good part is that it has an all weather trunk mat, OEM style 2” vertical hitch receiver, good winter tires, and Whispbar crossbars.
I need to stop buying tangible “insurance policies” or I’ll be sleeping on the streets by myself! :)
https://flic.kr/p/2pWU41i
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
I haven’t completely abandoned this… did a few things in the last while.
Did some horse trading and got my hands on an RS6 rear subframe and a V8 80L fuel tank and heat shield as well. I gleaned some C5 V8 aluminum front uprights from the gentleman I got the heat shield from as well.

The RS6 rear sub needed 2 ears repaired so I cleaned it all up good with some hydrofluoric acid prior to repairing the ears. Surprisingly, the OEM cast material actually welds quite well once cleaned up. Some final clean up still required

https://flic.kr/p/2qNnfMD
https://flic.kr/p/2qNsTHQ
I stumbled upon a set of Cayenne Brembos at the local yard so they followed me home. I just went with 17Z since 18Z has more wheel clearance challenges and more unsprung weight as well. I have some rear brackets planned that will allow the cayenne 4 pots to be mounted to the aluminum rear uprights and use the OEM caliper as a park brake. I’m planning to use C6 A6 V8 rear rotors at 330x22mm with ~49.5mm height.

https://flic.kr/p/2qNtXML
https://flic.kr/p/2qNt293
Finally, we got a little bit of warm weather here so I got the BHW pulled and it’s now in the shop to inspect the BSM, cam, and do a timing belt service. This was the first use of my budget hydraulically assisted engine removal table :D
It looks like the rear main was done on the engine at some point and it’s currently not leaking. There is a lot of oily residue in many places around the engine so I will have to chase those down as I get it stripped down and cleaned up. The turbo outlet hose is definitely shot.

https://flic.kr/p/2qNtXN2
Once I harvest the fuel lines and the fuel sender/tank from the B5.5 then it can get off the hoist and find a new home in the back 40.

Slow progress but progress nonetheless.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
87 4 runner BHW swap, 2011 A3 tdi, several b5.5 bhw's.
Where'd you get those sweet aftermarket unibody frame mounted javelins? I could impale so many deer with those things!
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
Hahaha. I had some weights hanging off them to counterbalance the car after it shed the weight of the subframe/engine/trans. Evidently, I should have loaded the car a little more nose heavy on the lift.
 

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x2, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
After getting the engine on a stand in the shop, I opened it up to find no particularly good news... The stock BSM was still there and chain driven and the stock cam was worn sharp on the lobe tips.
I buckled down and ordered the BRM BSM delete parts and a new replacement cam/lifters/associated bits. Buy once, cry once, I keep telling myself.
I ordered a care package from Europe to install an aluminum rear coolant flange which also adds coolant glow plug provisions. I also ordered the necessary 6MT starter (X2 so I can have a spare) and a coolant hose to integrate with the coolant flange. All part #s courtesy of @caffeine's build.

I pulled the factory fuel lines and cooler off of the B5.5 so the carcass can come off of the hoist. Within the next week or so, the snow will be melted enough to get the Audi down from the barn for her heart removal. I need to harvest the oil level sensor from the 2.7T to install into the BHW pan while its all apart.

I'm getting pretty excited to see some things actually coming together now. Once the engine is together I'll have to bite the bullet on the last big piece of the puzzle which is the SRE clutch and DMF.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
BHW x3, BEW x2, ALH x2, AHU, 1Z, AFB, AKN, BCZ, BDH
Kind of amazing that there are still BHW's running around out there on the original deadly chained BSM parts. If there's any upside to having to buy and install all that stuff, at least it means you know you're going into the C5 with fresh zero-usage components in the engine and a long runway on their lifespan ahead. And you get to do the BS delete yourself and know that you got all the metal chips out of the hole that needs tapped and plugged. :D

Between all that and fresh timing parts and clutch, gotta imagine once that engine drops in, there will be no reason for it to pretty much ever come back out!

Good call on the proactive coolant flange swap too, doing anything on the back of the motor slammed up against the firewall sucks. I didn't realize an aluminum alternative was out there, might need to get a couple of those too.
 

caffeine

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
03 Allroad w/04 BHW/02X conversion, 00 ALH Jetta
Kind of amazing that there are still BHW's running around out there on the original deadly chained BSM parts. If there's any upside to having to buy and install all that stuff, at least it means you know you're going into the C5 with fresh zero-usage components in the engine and a long runway on their lifespan ahead. And you get to do the BS delete yourself and know that you got all the metal chips out of the hole that needs tapped and plugged. :D

Between all that and fresh timing parts and clutch, gotta imagine once that engine drops in, there will be no reason for it to pretty much ever come back out!

Good call on the proactive coolant flange swap too, doing anything on the back of the motor slammed up against the firewall sucks. I didn't realize an aluminum alternative was out there, might need to get a couple of those too.
The aluminum flange is actually the same as used on the Mk4 TDIs w/manual transmission, the only difference is that the piece that bolts to the end of it (that houses the glow plugs) points down instead of straight out and has a quick connect fitting instead of hose barb. That piece is a Euro-only item.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
BHW x3, BEW x2, ALH x2, AHU, 1Z, AFB, AKN, BCZ, BDH
^^ Good info, thanks. I will need to look to remember but isn't the piece on the back of the BHW just a side-to-side type flat fitting? Could a person just use the ALH aluminum housing and then make a blockoff plate for the back side of it that houses the GP's? Or are you saying that downward aimed quick connect is needed for one of the BHW heater hose connections.
 

caffeine

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
03 Allroad w/04 BHW/02X conversion, 00 ALH Jetta
^^ Good info, thanks. I will need to look to remember but isn't the piece on the back of the BHW just a side-to-side type flat fitting? Could a person just use the ALH aluminum housing and then make a blockoff plate for the back side of it that houses the GP's? Or are you saying that downward aimed quick connect is needed for one of the BHW heater hose connections.
The ALH/BEW aluminum housing minus the GP housing is missing one of the coolant fittings present on the plastic housing. It normally connects to the EGR cooler but without the EGR cooler in the system it would normally connect to the heater core, yes. If you or someone you know is handy with welding aluminum, the ALH/BEW GP housing could probably be converted into something more longitudinal-friendly.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
BHW x3, BEW x2, ALH x2, AHU, 1Z, AFB, AKN, BCZ, BDH
Sure, or I imagine if all it needs is a fitting added, could even just drill and tap for pipe thread and screw a barb in. Though it would look a little hokey. :p

I'm no welder when it comes to delicate aluminum parts but the guy I know who is good at it and has done that kind of stuff for me has always been a little leery of trying to work with cast parts like this. Seems like it works out a good percentage of the time though.

Can't go wrong with the real correct Euro part if it is reasonably available, sounds like that is the best solution.
 

caffeine

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
03 Allroad w/04 BHW/02X conversion, 00 ALH Jetta
Sure, or I imagine if all it needs is a fitting added, could even just drill and tap for pipe thread and screw a barb in. Though it would look a little hokey. :p

I'm no welder when it comes to delicate aluminum parts but the guy I know who is good at it and has done that kind of stuff for me has always been a little leery of trying to work with cast parts like this. Seems like it works out a good percentage of the time though.

Can't go wrong with the real correct Euro part if it is reasonably available, sounds like that is the best solution.
Now that I think about it, if you're not actually incorporating glow plugs, you could just cut out piece of aluminum or steel flat bar into the shape of the flange, and drill/tap a hole in it to use an NPT to 90* hose barb fitting, would basically accomplish the same thing.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
BHW x3, BEW x2, ALH x2, AHU, 1Z, AFB, AKN, BCZ, BDH
Yup makes sense to put the fitting in the plate. So, seems like this would be a good permanent installation for any BHW then eh? Just using junkyard ALH and hardware aisle pieces.

Seems like someone could have some plates lasered out and drilled/tapped and sell for a few bucks to make a standard repair kit. Having that plastic flange back there under the tandem pump just seems like a setup anyone would want to get away from. 👍
 
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CantWrite

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Location
Placerville CO
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon (BHW/5-spd conv, 03T). I keep in touch with the (2) ALH's I sold.
I now have 2 Passats in need of BSM delete. My DD at 231k (chain/guides replaced at 150k), and the one I just bought at 252k, or at least the video sounds like a noisy chain.


I am going to look into that aluminum housing with GP provisions. I like the idea of cabin heat quicker during our mild Colorado winters.

I would love to have an AwD TDI Allroad!! I’m in for the long run!!
 
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