Injector Timing

[dktool]

2000 Beetle 1.9 TDI

I replacing the timing belt around 20k miles ago and set the timing to spec, 0.4* BTDC, I re-checked it on VCDS today and it is still at 0.4*

My question is what are opinions on use the adaptation setting to advance it to maybe 2.0 degrees ? I have read that advanced timing helps with cold starting and perhaps in other areas, this car has always seemed a little on the stubborn side on cold mornings.

I also adjusted the injector quantity today, hammer mod style, it was at 5.5 I set it to 3.6

Thanks for your input.

 

[UhOh]

What's the timing look like on the graph?

Several things contribute to hard starting.

 

[Rembrant]

2000 Beetle 1.9 TDI

I replacing the timing belt around 20k miles ago and set the timing to spec, 0.4* BTDC, I re-checked it on VCDS today and it is still at 0.4*

My question is what are opinions on use the adaptation setting to advance it to maybe 2.0 degrees ? I have read that advanced timing helps with cold starting and perhaps in other areas, this car has always seemed a little on the stubborn side on cold mornings.

I also adjusted the injector quantity today, hammer mod style, it was at 5.5 I set it to 3.6

Thanks for your input.

I've had my timing advance adapted by 2 degrees for a couple years now and over 60k miles. I also have my IQ set around 3.2 if I recall correctly, with no adaptation.

I don't recall if the timing adaptation made any difference in start-ups. The car started pretty good anyway, so it would be hard to notice. I haven't touched the timing or the IQ since I installed new injectors, so it's been a while. I played around with those settings a little bit earlier on when I was checking my MPG, and those numbers seemed to be where the car worked the very best.

I did the exact same thing with two other TDI's, the 03 wagon prior to the Golf, and a 2000 Beetle I had for a while last year. Timing at the top line of the graph, and IQ at 3.2-ish.

There is A LOT of information on here about this stuff if you're bored enough to read through all the old threads. There were some good fights in this thread below if I recall correctly. It's only 40 pages long.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=53139

 

[SaxmanKana]

I've had my timing advance adapted by 2 degrees for a couple years now and over 60k miles. I also have my IQ set around 3.2 if I recall correctly, with no adaptation.

I don't recall if the timing adaptation made any difference in start-ups. The car started pretty good anyway, so it would be hard to notice. I haven't touched the timing or the IQ since I installed new injectors, so it's been a while. I played around with those settings a little bit earlier on when I was checking my MPG, and those numbers seemed to be where the car worked the very best.

I did the exact same thing with two other TDI's, the 03 wagon prior to the Golf, and a 2000 Beetle I had for a while last year. Timing at the top line of the graph, and IQ at 3.2-ish.

There is A LOT of information on here about this stuff if you're bored enough to read through all the old threads. There were some good fights in this thread below if I recall correctly. It's only 40 pages long.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=53139

Wow, lots of info!

What happened with your Beetle?

 

[dktool]

Thanks for the info, this is my first diesel so the starting probably isn't all that bad in the grade scheme but coming from the gas world, it is really different.
Also, I'm in SoCal so cold to me is HOT to lot of you !

The engine does idle much smoother now after adjusting the IQ and seems to start a little easier.

I will try some small adapt timing adjustments and see what it does, I mostly wanted to be sure that doing that is not a BAD thing.

 

[SaxmanKana]

Thanks for the info, this is my first diesel so the starting probably isn't all that bad in the grade scheme but coming from the gas world, it is really different.
Also, I'm in SoCal so cold to me is HOT to lot of you !

The engine does idle much smoother now after adjusting the IQ and seems to start a little easier.

I will try some small adapt timing adjustments and see what it does, I mostly wanted to be sure that doing that is not a BAD thing.

I'm running Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Treatment in every tankful since last Sept. w B20 or less, that seemed to help me. Also when was the fuel filter last changed? I also cleaned out my fuel basket in the tank.

I would always run something in the fuel because the engines were designed to run on Low Sulfer Diesel not Ultra Low that we have now. An additive adds lubricity to help protect the Pump & Injectors. Every Diesel before 2008 should be doing that or at least B2. It seems like thats available everywhere in Ca.
Lucky you,
Dave

 

[dktool]

I'm running Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Treatment in every tankful since last Sept. w B20 or less, that seemed to help me. Also when was the fuel filter last changed? I also cleaned out my fuel basket in the tank.

I would always run something in the fuel because the engines were designed to run on Low Sulfer Diesel not Ultra Low that we have now. An additive adds lubricity to help protect the Pump & Injectors. Every Diesel before 2008 should be doing that or at least B2. It seems like thats available everywhere in Ca.
Lucky you,
Dave

You lost me at "B20 or less" and "Every Diesel before 2008 should be doing that or at least B2. It seems like thats available everywhere in Ca. "

Please elaborate .....

 

[SaxmanKana]

You lost me at "B20 or less" and "Every Diesel before 2008 should be doing that or at least B2. It seems like thats available everywhere in Ca. "

Please elaborate .....

Sorry, B20 is 20% biodiesel 80% regular or diesel#2. In 2008 we cut down the amount of sulfur in our fuel supply. Biodiesel is a lubricant, some states, Pennsylvania is one, has a B4 state mandate to help with the low lubricity of the modern fuel. In California Biodiesel is available in blends of B2 to B99. It was labeled a Green Fuel. You can read more about it to find out more.
Dave

 

[dktool]

Update

I set the injection timing via adaption to 2.9* (33020) it does start better, idle smooth and the power band is very smooth / even torque through the range, previously with the I.Q. at 5.5 and timing at 0.4* it was flatter down low and more turbo "kick in" feel mid range up, along with that kick in came a nice cloud of soot which was fun when someone was trying to drive up my ass.

I filled the tank for a mileage test, will post back results.

 

[SaxmanKana]

Sounds Good!

 

[dktool]

I set the injection timing via adaption to 2.9* (33020) it does start better, idle smooth and the power band is very smooth / even torque through the range, previously with the I.Q. at 5.5 and timing at 0.4* it was flatter down low and more turbo "kick in" feel mid range up, along with that kick in came a nice cloud of soot which was fun when someone was trying to drive up my ass.

I filled the tank for a mileage test, will post back results.

So, after a couple months of driving with the above settings, I did a long trip this past week, the results were good. Running between 75 and 85 mph (mostly 85) for over 500 miles non stop resulted in an average MPG of 44.xxx

 

[Brett San Diego]

I'm in San Diego. My 2002 wagon's got 312,000. It starts almost before I turn the key. There should be no issues with starting immediately even in the "harsh" SoCal winter. When I had a starting problem, my injection pump's main head O-ring seal needed to be replaced. I was getting 44-46 mpg in my mixed driving with typically setting my cruise control at 66-67 mph on the highway before my intake started to get really clogged. I think that caused the drop to 40-42. I think you're doing very well to get 44 mpg at 85 mph (indicated).

(I thought my mpg drop was due to new tires, but after I cleaned the intake, did the timing belt, and reset the injection timing a couple weeks ago, I appear to be back to where it was before. I just logged 48 mpg this evening, but half of that tank was the downhill run from Mammoth Mountain to home last week, 8,000 ft down to sea level.)

Brett

 

[jokila]

2000 Beetle 1.9 TDI

I replacing the timing belt around 20k miles ago and set the timing to spec, 0.4* BTDC, I re-checked it on VCDS today and it is still at 0.4*

My question is what are opinions on use the adaptation setting to advance it to maybe 2.0 degrees ? I have read that advanced timing helps with cold starting and perhaps in other areas, this car has always seemed a little on the stubborn side on cold mornings.

I also adjusted the injector quantity today, hammer mod style, it was at 5.5 I set it to 3.6

Thanks for your input.

What it the setting for the IP static timing? Run VCDS and show us the graph.