How to Turn Dyed diesel in to Yellow Diesel!!!

[Lightflyer1]

Four year old thread revival and still illegal to do.

 

[oxford_guy]

2. How is it unjust to pay road tax?

I suppose the argument is that car drivers who invest in diesels to be greener shouldn't be burned by diesel taxation aimed at trucking. Trucks damage roads more (and trucks without emissions systems cause more pollution) hence the higher tax on diesel. I am not saying I agree with this argument, but I think that's the most compelling one I can think of.

I suppose the fairest way to handle the issue would be to blend off-road with taxed fuel to get the fuel to the point where it is equal to the tax on gasoline. But, that would require quite a bit of effort.

 

[SuburbanTDI]

Four year old thread revival and still illegal to do.

Thread revival isn't all that bad.

Red dyed diesel though is kind of esoteric, I'm in farm country often - my family has a farm and several friends also have one - and I could not even begin to tell you where to buy untaxed diesel.

And I have never, ever, seen anyone or been tested for, red diesel.

My guess, and this is based on one case I did read about - most violations are discovered the old fashioned way. Someone drops a dime on you. Could be the guy at the station who watches your TDI pull away every week with four 5 gallon jugs, or it could be your neighbor. Or it could be the delivery driver that puts enough in your farm tank to run a full-size Deere combine but only sees the Kubota.

Eventually the State will come knocking on your door, except this time they want more than that nickel a gallon you thought you had saved.

Still, it's an interesting topic for its own sake.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Eventually the State will come knocking on your door, except this time they want more than that nickel a gallon you thought you had saved.

Still, it's an interesting topic for its own sake.

I aw my first ever untaxed diesel for sale at a station in rural Wyoming this summer; it was 50 cents a gallon cheaper than the road diesel.

Driving 15k miles per year at my average of 35 mpg that's about 429 gallons per year, which would save me $214 per year.

If it were available, I'd buy it.

 

[Dieselfitter]

I know an Old Timer that used to do this on the Farm in WWII. Farm fuel was not rationed if you had a farm. Still dyed purple/red.

He would fill 5 gallon glass jugs with dyed fuel and leave them on the front porch. In a few days the Gasoline would turn clear. Then it went into the Model A. He was always getting checked by the RCMP for dyed fuel! Never got charged!

 

[3waygeek]

He was always getting checked by the RCMP for dyed fuel! Never got charged!

I guess the Mounties don't always get their man.

 

[SuburbanTDI]

it was 50 cents a gallon cheaper than the road diesel.

Driving 15k miles per year at my average of 35 mpg that's about 429 gallons per year, which would save me $214 per year.

As devil's advocate, that $214 in savings requires that a non-taxed pump always be available for each fill-up on your 15k journey over the year - or you must always carry fuel cans. So actual realized savings are likely to be lower.

Yet, your tank will likely always have the tell-tale red trace - and elevated repeated usage will increase attention bringing the probability of the tax-mans knock closer.

And then the penalty, if caught? It's a tax issue, so it is draconian. There will be a charge for each tax, federal, state, county and local. In my state there is forfeiture of the vehicle, and potentially other paperwork or related charges if you get lippy and they feel like throwing the book at you.

Now if one could hide a fuel bladder with a separate switched line ....

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

In my state there is forfeiture of the vehicle,

I should be so lucky.

 

[commanderjjones]

I just ran across this amusing thread and thought I'd throw in a comment about getting checked for the red dye. I had never heard of anybody getting checked for that either, until a few months ago. One of my drivers got checked at a weight station in the middlle of nowhere OK. The driver said the DOT cop stuck what looked like a candle wick in the tank through the filler cap. The driver had never heard of anyone being checked for this either and had to ask what he was doing. So the cop said (in a smart ass tone, nonetheless), "You better hope this doesn't come out red". What a jerk.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Wow, necroposting in this thread.

 

[i64w2gohome]

Just for fun, looked up the penalties in Virginia:

Yes. The civil penalty is a minimum of $1,000 or $10 per gallon of fuel, based on the maximum storage capacity of the tank(s). Penalties are charged on the propulsion tanks of the vehicle as well as on any storage tanks on the vehicles. Penalties can also be charged on the storage tank at the farm if that was the source of the dyed fuel found in the vehicle. (Va. Code §58.1-2265(B))
Any person who refuses to allow an inspection or collection of a fuel sample is subject to a $5,000 penalty for each refusal. If the refusal is for a vehicle fuel sample collection, the penalty is assessed to the registered owner of the vehicle. If the refusal is for a sample to be taken from any other storage tank or container, the penalty will be payable by the owner of the storage tank or container. (Va. Code § 58.1-2267)
A person may be charged with a Class 6 felony if he or she uses dyed diesel fuel for a use that he or she knows or has reason to know is a taxable use of the fuel. Penalties can be charged if a person sells dyed diesel fuel to someone who the seller knows or has reason to know will use the fuel for a taxable purpose. If the amount of fuel is less than 20 gallons, the person may be charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor. (Va. Code § 58.1-2273(7))
A person who attempts to alter the strength or composition of any dye or dye marker in any dyed diesel fuel may be charged with a Class 6 felony. (Va. Code § 58.1-2273(8))

 

[Rattlerjake]

While I have no plans to do this or avoid the taxes on fuel.... What is the difference in this conversation and a conversation that teaches people how to make bio-diesel? You KNOW they are not going to pay the taxes on the bio-diesel they make and you KNOW it will be ran on the highway.

I know this is an old post but here is your answer - Making biodiesel is no different than making your own beer/wine/liquor. The government cannot legally prevent you from making your own, it's the commerce involved if you try to sell your product. Government is constitutionally authorized to regulate commerce, but NOT products for your own personal use. Of course there will be those individuals who will then mention making meth, cocaine, or other dangerous controlled substance, but making dangerous controlled substances is a whole different category.

 

[Rattlerjake]

Just for fun, looked up the penalties in Virginia:

Yes. The civil penalty is a minimum of $1,000 or $10 per gallon of fuel, based on the maximum storage capacity of the tank(s). Penalties are charged on the propulsion tanks of the vehicle as well as on any storage tanks on the vehicles. Penalties can also be charged on the storage tank at the farm if that was the source of the dyed fuel found in the vehicle. (Va. Code §58.1-2265(B))
Any person who refuses to allow an inspection or collection of a fuel sample is subject to a $5,000 penalty for each refusal. If the refusal is for a vehicle fuel sample collection, the penalty is assessed to the registered owner of the vehicle. If the refusal is for a sample to be taken from any other storage tank or container, the penalty will be payable by the owner of the storage tank or container. (Va. Code § 58.1-2267)
A person may be charged with a Class 6 felony if he or she uses dyed diesel fuel for a use that he or she knows or has reason to know is a taxable use of the fuel. Penalties can be charged if a person sells dyed diesel fuel to someone who the seller knows or has reason to know will use the fuel for a taxable purpose. If the amount of fuel is less than 20 gallons, the person may be charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor. (Va. Code § 58.1-2273(7))
A person who attempts to alter the strength or composition of any dye or dye marker in any dyed diesel fuel may be charged with a Class 6 felony. (Va. Code § 58.1-2273(8))

Well actually, this could be fought in court and won. The government, whether state or federal, has no authority to force an individual citizen in the act of non-commerce/personal travel, to allow a government official to violate their protection against wrongful search or seizure. The only way they can legally check your tank is to have probable cause, as in a witness seeing you put 'offroad' diesel in your tank. Secondly, the majority of the DMV laws are NOT legitimate law, they are arbitrary and designed to produce revenue for the city, county, state, or federal government as fines for violating their arbitrary rules. The Supreme Court has established the definition of "NOT-LAWS" and that citizens are NOT obligated to conform to them - but you have to be willing to take a stand and fight it in court.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Really old!

 

[Mongler98]

Really old!

Yep.. at least its something to contribute and heck... *nods head in approval
The newb actually read this thread.... probably all of it!

When I saw this pop up I got my popcorn ready...