Fry fuel: McDonald’s franchisee runs cars on it

[EmeraldTDI]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11809771/

Gosh, I distantly remember thinking "hey, I wanna diesel so I can do this" and have since forgotten about it. This article makes it sound so easy, I've gotta reconsider converting mine.

But, the question now is, if this article gives people at McDonald's "ideas", then at some point the stuff will not be given away for free, but it will probably be sold....but the good thing is, sheesh, if we could get fry oil at any McDonald's we'd have more availability than gassers.

 

[McBrew]

Yeah, except they refer to it as "biodiesel".

Grease conversions are a bit iffy when used with high pressure systems in modern diesel engines. Biodiesel is a bit easier. For the price of two greasecar kits, I put together a biodiesel system that I power 10 cars/trucks with... and no conversion is necessary on any of the vehicles.

 

[BiodieselCleveOH]

Plenty of Modern High-pressure Diesels on Veggie Oil

Plenty of examples of folks with newer diesels running straight vegetable oil with heated systems from companies like www.plantdrive.com, www.greasel.com, www.greasecar.com, www.vegpower.com, etc. Here's a coast-to-coast trip going on even as we speak. I met up with this bunch in Columbus, Ohio today at one of their tour stops.
http://www.adventurehighway.com/

 

[dieselvet]

Forget hydrogenated McDonalds veg oil for fueling a WVO system. Use non hydrogenated canola or soy oil from asian restaurants. Much less complicated. Heat and good filtering/dewatering are essential.

 

[TylerSales]

To the idea of selling the grease, right now they are having to pay to get rid of it...so I would imagine that it would be some time before they decided to start selling it., as you are doing them a favor.

 

[dhdenney]

My dad and I are Dairy Queen franchisees and we are saving up our used shortening to make biodiesel. We've got over 60 gallons of raw oil saved up right now but we've been saving for only about 3 months. He said when the weather gets warm we'll start processing. Before, our waste oil was picked up by a company and they would cut us a check for about $0.025/lb. They sold the stuff to cosmetic companies. We never actually paid anyone to take it off. The same company will still get the grill waste since it is animals fat. We keep the vegetable oil seperate since you couldn't make bio out of the mix.

 

[coachgeo]

... The same company will still get the grill waste since it is animals fat. We keep the vegetable oil seperate since you couldn't make bio out of the mix.

Word is that Animal fat has more power in it than veg. oil. It has been used somewhat successfuly in HOT HOT HOT twin tank set ups.

 

[VWannabe]

The same company will still get the grill waste since it is animals fat. We keep the vegetable oil seperate since you couldn't make bio out of the mix.

This is not true. Animal fats can be made into biodiesel as easily as vegetable oil. It is still triglycerides that are converted via esterification. The biggest difference is the saturation level of the carbons in the triglyceride chains. More saturation means a higher gel point, both for the raw WVO and for the resulting biodiesel made from it. People have made perfectly good biodiesel from lard and run it quite successfully in diesel engines. The problems with it stem from it having a higher gel point than biodiesel made from less saturated fats. And while the higher saturation fats produce higher gel point biodiesel, the resulting biodiesel also tends to have a very high cetane rating, usually higher than biodiesel made from less saturated fats. So, you could use the animal fats to make biodiesel in the summer and run it then, and run the lower saturated biodiesel, made from vegetable oil, in the cooler months.

 

[bhtooefr]

dhdenney is a shade too far to the north to do that, though, I'd say.

I guess in the summer, but...

 

[dhdenney]

This is not true. Animal fats can be made into biodiesel as easily as vegetable oil. It is still triglycerides that are converted via esterification. The biggest difference is the saturation level of the carbons in the triglyceride chains. More saturation means a higher gel point, both for the raw WVO and for the resulting biodiesel made from it. People have made perfectly good biodiesel from lard and run it quite successfully in diesel engines. The problems with it stem from it having a higher gel point than biodiesel made from less saturated fats. And while the higher saturation fats produce higher gel point biodiesel, the resulting biodiesel also tends to have a very high cetane rating, usually higher than biodiesel made from less saturated fats. So, you could use the animal fats to make biodiesel in the summer and run it then, and run the lower saturated biodiesel, made from vegetable oil, in the cooler months.

I know you can make bio out of animal fats. What I meant was you can't make bio out of a MIX OF VEGETABLE OIL AND ANIMAL FAT. We have very little animal fat/grill waste so we just collect the vegetable oil and dump the animal fat. Both use two different processes so you can't mix them.

 

[bhtooefr]

However, can you mix the veggie-bio and the animal-bio? I was under the impression that you could. Two processing runs, but...

 

[dhdenney]

Yeah I think once you make the fuel it should be fine. It's the chemical reactions/brewing processes that are different.

 

[Dave_D]

I'm not aware of any difference in processing of vegatable and animal oils to bio-diesel. Now there IS a difference in processing when you have oil with a high content of free fatty acids (FFA) due to breakdown of the oil. In that case you need to do an acid-base process to avoid formation of large amounts of soap. But this can be true of either vegatable or animal oils. So I am unaware of any reason not to use both sources unless you have concerns about the higher gelling properties of the animal products.

 

[dhdenney]

I'm not aware of any difference in processing of vegatable and animal oils to bio-diesel. Now there IS a difference in processing when you have oil with a high content of free fatty acids (FFA) due to breakdown of the oil. In that case you need to do an acid-base process to avoid formation of large amounts of soap. But this can be true of either vegatable or animal oils. So I am unaware of any reason not to use both sources unless you have concerns about the higher gelling properties of the animal products.

My dad says if you spill salt into the french fryer (since we keep the two close together) that it will make the vegetable oil "soapy." The fries cooked in it taste like soap. This could be (or very similar to) what you are referring to. He's read hours and hours on making bio and everything he has read says to keep the animal and vegetable oils seperated.

 

[urchindog]

Not to be a wise guy but I hope the cars fair better than people do ingesting it.

 

[VWannabe]

My dad says if you spill salt into the french fryer (since we keep the two close together) that it will make the vegetable oil "soapy." The fries cooked in it taste like soap. This could be (or very similar to) what you are referring to. He's read hours and hours on making bio and everything he has read says to keep the animal and vegetable oils seperated.

Spilling salt in the oil should not cause any more soap formation, unless water is absorbed along with it.

The only reason to keep animal fats and vegetable fats separated is to keep the more saturated fats separate from the less saturated fats. However, the only thing it will do, if mixed, is to make the biodiesel gel at a higher temp than just the vegetable oil based biodiesel would. There is no difference in the process. Check out this website, which has a lot more people on it from all different parts of the world. If it has been asked, it has been asked here.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x

 

[dhdenney]

Spilling salt in the oil should not cause any more soap formation, unless water is absorbed along with it.

The only reason to keep animal fats and vegetable fats separated is to keep the more saturated fats separate from the less saturated fats. However, the only thing it will do, if mixed, is to make the biodiesel gel at a higher temp than just the vegetable oil based biodiesel would. There is no difference in the process. Check out this website, which has a lot more people on it from all different parts of the world. If it has been asked, it has been asked here.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x

I said tase like soap. I have no idea what goes on chemically.

 

[BrentRN]

I guess a car running on McDonald's grease should be called a Frybrid.

 

[greggyc1]

Frybrid...that's cute. I guess it would run on McDiesel!

 

[DrStink]

He's read hours and hours on making bio and everything he has read says to keep the animal and vegetable oils seperated.

That's a very curious statement given that the base catalyzed transestification reaction used by homebrewers to convert triglycerides to fatty acid methyl esters (eg biodiesel) is exactly the same regardless of the source of the feedstock.

 

[nicklockard]

Exactly. If you run your reaction at sufficient temperatures such that all fat components are well dissolved, this is a total non-issue. It might become an issue if your reaction mixture is not heated sufficiently: the animal fats can float out to the top, and then you could have formation of more incomplete reaction products such as mono and diglycerides.

 

[dhdenney]

That's a very curious statement given that the base catalyzed transestification reaction used by homebrewers to convert triglycerides to fatty acid methyl esters (eg biodiesel) is exactly the same regardless of the source of the feedstock.

I did some reading of my own and the best argument I can formulate is that by mixing our animals fats (grill waste) into our WVO, we are introducing additional free fatty acids to our basestock which would require more catalyst to neutralize. And too many fatty acids might result in soap formation in our mix. Considering our WVO is much easier filtered and is in greater quantity than the animal fats (grill waste), then it just make sense to keep it seperated. Perhaps you can mix the two but it just seems more complicated than just keeping it seperated. So I rephrase my initial statement from "you can't mix the WVO and animal fats" to "it's easier to blend bio from straight WVO."