Finding Good Fuel

[Larry in TN]

I'm on my second tank in my 2002 Jetta TDI. The first fill-up was at the station that was most convenient. Since then, I've been looking around at the various options in my area and was surprised that most stations do not list the cetane rating on the pump. The only stations (that I've found) that do are the Thorton's and they are 40. I also haven't seen any stations listing their fuel as premium diesel. Is there anyway for me to know what I'm getting?

The more convenient available choices are:

Murphy USA
Exxon
BP
Thorton's (40 Cetane)
Kangaroo

Thanks...

 

[dieseldorf]

Is there anyway for me to know what I'm getting?

Larry, you can have every batch of fuel tested prior to filling. Or, you can contact each of the companies listed and ask them what the minimum spec is for your region and keep your fingers crossed

Welcome aboard!

 

[aja8888]

I'm on my second tank in my 2002 Jetta TDI. The first fill-up was at the station that was most convenient. Since then, I've been looking around at the various options in my area and was surprised that most stations do not list the cetane rating on the pump. The only stations (that I've found) that do are the Thorton's and they are 40. I also haven't seen any stations listing their fuel as premium diesel. Is there anyway for me to know what I'm getting?

The more convenient available choices are:

Murphy USA
Exxon
BP
Thorton's (40 Cetane)
Kangaroo

Thanks...

You won't get more than 40 cetane, unless you are in Texas...

 

[RT1]

I think you'll find you need to experiment to find the most consistent fuel source. If you have a consistent driving regimen you'll see pretty quickly how many mpg you'll get per tank from a particular vendor. In my experience it's about a 10% mpg variation between the so-so fuel and the good stuff. Going for the cheapest is not a motivator for me. The key is picking a station with good turnover of stock. Old or poorly winterized diesel can ruin your day pretty quickly. I would bet "name brand" diesel is a mix of stocks from a number of refiners so don't get too hung up on a name. Let your car tell you if it likes what you're feeding it and stick with the station that provides it.

 

[boutmuet]

You won't get more than 40 cetane, unless you are in Texas...

..or california

 

[aja8888]

..or california

Thanks! I stand corrected (did not know).

 

[b4black]

I'd bet the majority of the fuel where you live comes off one pipeline and that it's the same no matter who you get it from. 40 cetane is the minumum spec. Usually it will be better, but it's really random.

 

[RiceEater]

There are very, very few oil refineries in the U.S. It is very obvious then (unless you are completely stupid) that any given refinery serves a huge geographical area. Once the chemE at the fuel farm finishes measuring and mixing and signs on the dotted line the fuel meets all the requirements of ASTM D 975 for ULSD the fuel leaves for all those thousands and thousands of individual retailers. How well do all those individual retailers handle the fuel; as well as they manage their cigarette inventory?

Well why don't you look at your fuel filter? Doesn't VWAG tell you to look at your fuel filter?

Today there are very few if any big oil retailers. Many of these retailers are largely left to electronic management. But sometimes there is a guy who has his bread and butter staked on the small retail outlet and it is not the guy behind the counter. This guy goes around changing the filters on the pumps. He makes sure that the tank vents are not clogged. He uses the tank dip stick to check on the quality of the fuel not just to back up the electronic inventory. If you are smart enough you'll know which places are better than all the rest; its not the truck stops with big turnaround.

In Texas the "forces" that drive >40 cetane fuel are largely market; in California those "forces" are largely regulatory (CARB). It doesn't take a genius to tell you that you'll have a higher probability of getting higher cetane fuel in Texas than California.

 

[aja8888]

Facts

There are very, very few oil refineries in the U.S. It is very obvious then (unless you are completely stupid) that any given refinery serves a huge geographical area.

Here are the top 143 U.S. refineries:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm

In Texas the "forces" that drive >40 cetane fuel are largely market; in California those "forces" are largely regulatory (CARB). It doesn't take a genius to tell you that you'll have a higher probability of getting higher cetane fuel in Texas than California.

See here: Cetane >48 is mandated in Texas:


"Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission
Chapter 114 - Control of Air Pollution from Motor Vehicles
Rule Log Number 2000-011D-114-AI


To comply with the state LED regulations, diesel fuel producers and importers must ensure that diesel fuel distributed meets the specifications stated in these adopted rules. These rules require that, beginning May 1, 2002, diesel fuel produced for delivery and ultimate sale to the consumer in the affected area shall not exceed 500 ppm sulfur, must contain less than 10% by volume of aromatic hydrocarbons, and must have a cetane number of 48 or greater. In addition, these rules will require the sulfur content in the diesel fuel supplied to the DFW, BPA, and HGA ozone nonattainment areas and 95 central and eastern Texas counties, be reduced to 15 ppm sulfur beginning June 1, 2006. Also, these rules require diesel fuel producers and importers who provide fuel to the affected areas to register with the commission and provide quarterly status reports.

The commission is aware that the EPA is currently proposing revised nationwide diesel fuel sulfur controls. If a new federal diesel fuel sulfur rule is adopted that covers the areas in Texas impacted by this rule, and the federal rule is at least as stringent as these rules, then the commission may consider compliance with the national rule equally effective and may repeal the state sulfur requirements for diesel fuel.

As noted in the rule preamble, the rules do apply statewide regarding the requirement for the use of diesel fuel with 500 ppm maximum sulfur, 10% maximum aromatics, and 48 minimum cetane, for on-road use in motor vehicles. The commission notes the differences between the conventional low grade diesel fuel and the clean, or "premium," diesel fuels are that clean premium diesel fuel contains less sulfur, less polycyclic aromatic compounds (PAC), and an increase in cetane."


Rice eater: Get your facts straight . There are 4 large U.S. refineries idled due to low demand. Chevron announced yesterday they may idle some of their refineries. We have more refineries than any country on this planet.

 

[RiceEater]

I went through the list and the big refineries around SF and Long Beach I knew about. I was surprised to find the small refineries here and there about California. The list does show the huge refining capacity of Texas as compared to other geographical areas. I think in the past coupla decades the supply of fuel in Texas has been so high that the competition went to the best fuel and retailers would advertise "premium" and "cetane" to get their market share. People in Texas were laughing at the rest of the nation after Goldman Sachs published their $170/bbl letter. Did the Texas Natural Resource Commission come about the same time as CARB? The dates seems to suggest a little after but was ULSD mandated by TNRCC approximately the same time as CARB? It was only yesterday that the US lacked sufficient refining capacity and now today...is another day.

I really should restrict my expertise to those things I know; nucleonics and super sonic turbines.

 

[aja8888]

I really should restrict my expertise to those things I know; nucleonics and super sonic turbines.

Yes, stick with what you know. I work in Oil & Gas and have for 30 years (California and Texas). When we were gulping down 22+ million barrels a day in the US, the refineries couldn't keep up. So some added capacity (bad timing). So now we have too much capacity!

Refineries are like pizza ovens: When business is good, the wait for your pizza takes longer and when everyone is eating mashed potatoes (like now), some pizza ovens are turned off.

I'm not sure about timing on Texas regulations, although this state dances to it's own tune.

 

[RiceEater]

It seems to me that TNRCC has had a more favorable effect on commerce than CARB. The air in/around DFW seems no better, no worse than LA.

 

[b4black]

The list does show the huge refining capacity of Texas as compared to other geographical areas. I think in the past coupla decades the supply of fuel in Texas has been so high that the competition went to the best fuel and retailers would advertise "premium" and "cetane" to get their market share.

Texas has had huge refinery capacity for well more than the last couple of decades. Most product goes up the east coast along a couple of very big pipelines.

Cetane in Texas has nothing to do with competition. It's TxLED diesel regulations that came online a few years ago. One way to meet them is to make a CARB-like diesel.

 

[RiceEater]

"the differences between the conventional low grade diesel fuel and the clean, or "premium," diesel fuels are that clean premium diesel fuel contains less sulfur, less polycyclic aromatic compounds (PAC), and an increase in cetane."

When you refine high alkane content feedstock instead of PAC you get an increase in cetane and a decrease in sulfur. Competition means that if you don't manage your fuel very well your income will drop.

 

[Cool Breeze]

Texas has had huge refinery capacity for well more than the last couple of decades. Most product goes up the east coast along a couple of very big pipelines.

+1, The BIG one which feeds the eastern seaboard up to NYC goes right by my house.

 

[TornadoRed]

I'm on my second tank in my 2002 Jetta TDI. The first fill-up was at the station that was most convenient. Since then, I've been looking around at the various options in my area and was surprised that most stations do not list the cetane rating on the pump. The only stations (that I've found) that do are the Thorton's and they are 40. I also haven't seen any stations listing their fuel as premium diesel. Is there anyway for me to know what I'm getting?

The more convenient available choices are:

Murphy USA
Exxon
BP
Thorton's (40 Cetane)
Kangaroo

Thanks...

I believe every station will say their diesel has a minimum cetane number of 40. The ones that claim they sell premium diesel may add something extra.

Nashville and the surrounding area could be supplied from either the Colonial Pipeline in Georgia, or from refineries and terminals in Illinois. So I can't say whether all the diesel in your area come from the same sources.

You need to do your own research. Find busy stations in your area -- which usually tend to be the cheapest stations too. Then determine whether your TDI runs better with one of them. If not, then consider an additive to turn average diesel into premium diesel.

 

[tedj101]

Cetane rating

You won't get more than 40 cetane, unless you are in Texas...

Actually, you will probably get the highest cetane rating in CA. They have very high cetane requirements for diesel fuel sold there.

<TED>

 

[spikex]

Actually, you will probably get the highest cetane rating in CA. They have very high cetane requirements for diesel fuel sold there.

<TED>

does anyone know anything about deisel quality in Alberta Canada?

 

[Bob_Fout]

does anyone know anything about deisel quality in Alberta Canada?

It's my understanding there are no issues with diesel quality in Canada.