Experience w/ hydranox5000.com ???

JamesBa

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
GOLF '02
Anyone have experience with this technical gizmo?

http://hydranox5000.com/

I did a search on this forum for "hydranox", but didn't find anything. It looks like another case of snake oil, but there's always a chance that something like this actually works.

Any thoughts?
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Jimmy, you could be the first in the know. Let us hear your impressions!
 

ecodean

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
Seagrove NC
TDI
2002 golf, 85 jetta(sold), 03 jetta(sold)
HydranOx 5000 feeds your engine hydrogen (over 30 cubic inches an hour).
30 cubic inches an hour doesn't sound like enough to do much IMO. I think SNAKE OIL:rolleyes:
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
I have no thoughts about efficacy. However, one of the CinciTDI folks played with one of these (or similar beastie) and declared an increase in performance/economy.

Too bad that it broke pretty quickly....
 

McBrew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
The only way you would see a benefit is if it improves the way the gasoline burns.

To make things simpler, I'll convert to BTUs:

* 12 amps at 13.5 volts (the amount of power this unit is supposed to use) is about 550 BTUs.

* 30 cubic inches per hour (the amount of hydrogen this unit is supposed to produce) is about 0.45 BTUs.

So, it uses about 1,200 times as much energy as it produces in hydrogen. As I said before, if there are any gains in power/fuel economy, it is due to an improvement in the burning of gasoline due to the presence of the (very small amount of) hydrogen.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Lol..

This is just to stuped to be true..

When you absolutly want to use hydrogen, I heard of some kind'a weird sponge technoligy were you could store plenty of hydrogen at low pressures..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11761455/

I don't see what stuped "new technoligy" they have to get so little hydrogen when using 12 amps.. If you take the right fuel cell with the right catalysators it should have some more effeciency, not like 1/1200

Producing hydrogen trough light (kind'a solar cells) would be more beneficial..
 

JamesBa

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
GOLF '02
I watched the report from Fox News, which is on the http://hydranox5000.com/ webpage. They installed it in 4 vehicles used as patrol cars. They reported the two SUVs experienced increase in both power and economy. The crown victorias experienced only an increase in power. Later in the broadcast, a company official claimed the reason was the computer chip negates the effect of the hydrogen, or something like that.

He also claimed this device will work in diesel engines increasing both power and fuel efficiency. I must admit, it's tempting to try one out in the TDI.
 

JamesBa

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
GOLF '02
I asked Dr. Andrew Pouring of www.sonexresearch.com for his opinion since he's an expert in combustion technology and laboratory science. Here's his reply:

I listened to the promo and it is worthless. Field tests are notoriously inaccurate. Only controlled lab tests will give the results that can be believed.

There have been some research publications on adding H2 to the intake with mixed results but I have not really followed up on them.
 

otbBlaine

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Location
Orange County, Ca
TDI
2002 Golf
I love how the 'Research and Development' link takes you to the order form. What crap...in fact, the more I read on that site, the dumber I get.

The best way, IMO, to use hydrogen and oxygen to power your car would be to adapt a turbopump from the SSME to the drivetrain. :D
 

kd8cgo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Location
Salem, Ohio USA
TDI
'02 Jetta
Hydrogen is used in engine development to test lean burn characteristics of gasoline engines. We all know that a gasoline engine when running too lean will run high EGT's, and lead to valve damage, and too lean will cause misfire. The cool thing is under light loading and using hydrogen as a supplement in the intake, you can run leaner than 17-18:1 afr. Once you got up over the 19-20 hump, the EGT's will actually start to come back down to a safe level. The hydrogen's ease of ignition is the only benefit in this scenario.

A practical application of this phenomenon would be under light load cruise, where you can run your afr up into an extreme lean state safely. No ECU is configured to do this from the factory, so obviously to even test this idea you would need to have a wideband o2 setup and a custom ECU mapped/configured to run with this setup. Hydrogen will not add power, the air it displaces is more valuable then the equivalent 'fuel' you get from the small amounts of hydrogen gas. Now if it was liquid hydrogen until it hit the chamber, that could be a different story, but you're not going to see a kit like that in the near future.

That being said, since we need no further help running lean on a diesel engine, I would say this is completely inapplicable to the TDI. Nor would it be of any use on a stock gasser that has not been professionally setup to take advantage of 'lean burn' cruise. I think it is a complete waste of money as it is being marketed and implemented by this company.

Just my 2c!
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
The overwhelming majority of current gasoline engine must run at or near stoichiometric, and are regulated to a very tight AFR band near stoichiometric via an O2 sensor, so a discussion about lean burn is not germane to the benefits of hydrogen injection devices retrofitted to current engines as these products do.

However, that being said, hydrogen injection in useful quantities can and will aid gasoline engine combustion near the lean limit because hydrogen has an exceptionally high laminar flame velocity, and as already stated, a very wide flammability range. This will shorten the end-of-combustion timing from TDC and therefore improve the indicated efficiency, because the cycle operates closer to a constant-volume cycle than would otherwise be the case of slow, lean combustion. It would also extend the misfire limit, but only IF the engine is running close to that limit.

An engine that is running stoichiometric or rich, I don't believe, will see any noticeable improvement.

For Diesel applications, the danger is that hydrogen has a low-autoignition temperature, and could pre-ignite before the piston reaches TDC. This greatly increases cylinder pressures and produces negative work. There is very little fuel economy improvement to be gained from increased combustion efficiency, one of the biggest claims of these hydrogen devices, because with Diesel combustion it is already in the order of 99%. However, some gain can be realised if, like in the gasoline engine illustrated above, the combustion duration could be shortened, such that the cycle operates as close as possible to a constant-volume process. How much could be gained? -- maybe 5%.

BUT, this cannot happen given the rate of hydrogen generated and burned in the engine, as has been calculated from some claims (one gallon of water consumed per 6000 miles). In order to have any effect whatsover, the hydrogen must account for at least about 1% of the total fuelling quantity. I have calculated here that these devices that consume one gallon of water per 6000 miles, produce hydrogen at a rate of the order of parts per million (0.0001%). In other words, unless these devices produce and burn a whole lot more hydrogen, they ain't worth and don't make a hill of beans of difference.
 
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