Everyone loves high gas prices!

03_01_TDI

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Denmark
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We put Sadaam into power. We helped train Bin Laden. -- Its not either side of the politcal party or one person. It's this simple. Many Many rich people have alot to loose or gain based on oil. The filthy rich own most of washington and protect themselves.

Please lets stop the who did or didn't cause this Iraqi mess.
 

jimlockey

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Location
Mesquite, Texas
TDI
14 TDI Jetta & 09 TDI Sportwagen
Fuel Prices, Now Fuel Shortages

It's going to get worse.

That private meeting Congress had with the oil companies is going to cost us more when we drive. Now they are adding fuel shortages to the eqution.

I well remember the so called shortages in 1973 & 1974.
 

scythefwd

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
Caroline County, VA
TDI
99 beetle GLS TDI
Ashland, VA??

Try the Raceway on route 1. Take 126 South off of 95 and its there on the left. They are the cheapest in the state that I have found. They consistantly beat Flying J by about 3 cents a gallon.

PDJetta said:
I hear you! I have 40 gallons of D2 in my shed I paid 2.47 for a gallon two weeks at the Flying J near Ashland, VA:)

D2 goes for about $2.90 a gallon where I live in Northern VA now.

--Nate
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
The choices we make today effect us for many tomorrows

jimlockey said:
It's going to get worse.

That private meeting Congress had with the oil companies is going to cost us more when we drive. Now they are adding fuel shortages to the eqution.

I well remember the so called shortages in 1973 & 1974.
The current mess we are in is of extreem prices and low CAFE numbers is due to the greed of 2 American leaders , Reagan & Bush Jr . Reagan dismantled CAFE and the repulbicans in congress & Bush Jr have made sure it stayed dismantled .

The rise of diesels in the USA & Canada can be traced directly to the Ford & Carter administrations and their energy policies of the late 70s .

Reagan dismantled our energy policy for short term gain . He made a deal with the oil rich Saudis' to flood the market with oil for the pushing of a arms sale deal to the Saudi government through the road blocks that our government had been useing to block for security reasons for his gain and our lose . The real purpose of this deal made in secret was to force energy prices to artificially low levels to help the economy and garrantee his re-elction . The price of energy dropped to $2 to $3 a barrel causing a our economy to spike for a short time allowing it to look much better than it actually was .

As a result CAFE standards increases were dropped and the diesels that were required to be sold to meet increases in CAFE mpg were gone within 18 months . And fleet mpg in the US have been dropping every since . Leading to 2 wars in the middle east over our oil supply . If the CAFE standards had been carried through from the late 70's to today we would have a fleet mpg of 40+ now instead of our current levels of low 20's highway and mid 10's city .

The proof of this exists in England , Europe , & Japan where policies were carried through that have lead these countries to a 40 + mpg average in their fleet since the mid 90's . Made in large part possible because of the wide spred use of diesel power in all vehicals . Japan which has little if any oil of their own decided early after the oil price spike in the early 70's that they had no choice but to reduce their energy waste .

In 1984 every car company sold diesels in the entire range of vehicals they sold in the US to meet yearly CAFE standards increases . After the irresponsible actions of the Reagan administration , there was no encintive to increase mpgs so all the diesel options were gone in the US by early 1986 . VW had a loyal diesel following by then and has tried twice since then to bring the diesel option back to us here , failed once in 1989 to 1992 and had to withdraw the diesels in the US in early 1992 until mid 1996 and the jury is still out on this time as well . In fact it really is Looking like diesels are gone again starting in 07 .

Without government leadership on this issue , I see no way for this to ever take off as a real option to replace the poluting , wasteful gas engines with clean high mpg diesel engines here in the US . Which would reduce our need to import oil from the middle east to almost nothing .

We have 1/5 of the world population , but we use 3/4 of the worlds energy . And The lame argument of "We need all that oil to run our economy" , can be dispelled by a look at the Japanise enconomy of the early 80's and how much less oil they used at their high output levels of goods compared to us here .

As long as our government is for keeping gas prices artificially low and giving up to $100,000 tax credits on 4 mpg 7,000+ lb. SUV's , and little to no tax credits to people like me for driving VW diesels , TDI's that get 40 to 50 mpg through the use of clean diesels , then high mpg diesels have no chance here . Hybrids can never equal what diesels can give today with todays diesel tech. .

These are the facts that I witnessed in the eighties that have lead us to the dangerous place that we live with today . I didn't agree with the US acting like we were on a island not connected to the rest of the world then , and I really don't think that it is a good idea today .

Every emissions rule that has been written in the last decade and a half by the congress that has been aimed at killing off the diesel tech in favor of keeping the SUV & Truck loophole . Result is the current CAFE numbers that are lower than they were 20 years ago .

I might add not a single US auto maker builds or sells any vehicles that have to meet the ever stronger light duty diesel rules . VW & MB are the only car companies that have tried to jump through the ever smaller hoop the the US congress keeps creating .

Every give away of stonger regulation of the light duty auto diesel emission was aimed directly at making the air look cleaner on paper while continuing to let the loophole vehicles polute at late 70s & very early 80s levels for as long as possible . And I might add that the rules were specifically written to exclude lupehole class diesels !!!!!!!

We don't get cleaner air by banning lite duty diesels that are not even being sold in the US by the big 3 . But you and do loose the MB diesel & our TDIs as an option because of it .

Diesel tech might now be in fact be approaching the time that these rules can be met , but the rules had nothing to do with cleaning up the air .

Above is the real reason for them being passed , a way to keep the truck & SUV loophole . And our government doese care nothing at all about improving fleet mpg and passed rules year after year banning any increase in CAFE US fleet mpgs .

In 1992, the Clinton Gore book, Putting People First, advocated raising the passenger car standard to 45 mpg.

In 1993, President Clinton tried to raise gas taxes to reduce the deficit. This would have also encouraged people to drive more efficient vehicles via market forces. His own party, and Max Baucus (D-MT) in particular, refused to go along with this, and forced him limit the increase to 4.3 cents/gallon.

1993 also saw the introduction of the all carrot no stick PNGV project to at least push the country twords some sort of alternat energy .

In 1994, NHTSA issued a notice of proposed rulemaking to explore raising the CAFE standard for light-duty trucks. But auto lobbyists didn't like this idea so they convinced Congress to include provisions in the FY1996 Department of Transportation Authorization (P.L. 104-50, H.R. 2002) prohibiting the use of authorized funds to promulgate any CAFE rules."

This was part a push by the Clinton addministration in that year to get diesels in the US fleet to improve CAFE numbers , US fleet mpgs . This was the climate that the first 50 mpg VW TDIs were sold in the US in the 96 , 97 in the B4 Passat & A3 Golf , Jetta . The A4 TDI Jettas & Golfs that were introduced in early 99 were also in the spirit of the introduced rules in the late 90s . As VW has proved high mpgs can be gotten in any size of car or SUV with the use of high tech diesels today not somewhere in the future .

"The same prohibition was also included in the FY1997 (P.L. 104-205) and FY1998 DOT Appropriations (P.L. 105-66). The same CAFE freeze rider was attached to the FY1999 Appropriates bill as well."

This is a policy that was squarely aimed at giving the big 3 a break at the high mpg diesels expense . And until the price of oil went through the roof the Bush administration policy on oil use was " Use all the oil today for we die Tomorrow" . And stayed that way until the polls started dropping due to high oil prices at the pump . His recent conversion to conservation is only to save his and congresses neck . Nothing more !!!

And I don't care about republican or democrat . I liked Ford , & Bush Sr along with Carter & Clinton . I go on policies not party . I dispised Reagan on his short sited policies and I feel the same about Bush Jr . At least 50 % of the country dislikes Bush Jr , I'm not alone . He may not be a bad guy , but he is a piss pour leader .
 

cptmox

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Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
good point

rotarykid said:
The main reason we are in the middle east is for oil . We spend billions of $$ every year to keep the oil flowing threw the middle east and have been been for most of the last 70 years .

The main reason we went into Iraq was for cheap oil . But it didn't work out that way . I do know a little about the region and I predicted the mess we are in long before we went into Iraq along with anyone else that has some understanding of the history of that part of the world .

That is one thing that this administration never got and still doesn't get . In the middle east history counts and gets repeated over and over . The British , French , & Germans learned this 100 years ago , and now it is our turn to learn this . The mess we are in was predicted by the history of the region if our leaders would had paid attention .
History is so important, and our situation is so similar to past events.

The Soviet Union fighting an insurgency in Afghanistan during the 80's that WOULD NOT die; Iraq could very easily end up that way. We are working very hard to prop up the Iraqi Army and govt., but it remains to be seen if it will be able to stay corruption-free.

History can also tell you something about us, even though our history is much shorter. We work hard for our easy living, and we will vote into office whoever will allow us to perpetuate our lifestyle. If a presidential candidate comes along in summer/fall '07 when gas prices are >$4, and promises a return to the "cheap" $3/gal. gas, he'll get in. If someone tinkers with the idea of a big gas tax on top of the already high prices, he will not get in. It doesn't matter if it is a good plan, or part of the answer to our problems, because he won't get in.

Politically speaking, now is not the time to force American automakers to do anything. However we feel about past politicians, the next president cannot mess around with CAFE standards too much, because it would be viewed as too crippling to our automaking industry. And you can bet that the opponent to any well-meaning candidate would shred him for being to harsh on our struggling auto industry.

Democrats are supported mightily by the UAW who is fighting for survival, and their lives depend on the well being of the big 2 1/2. Republicans hold the view that our economy is driven by cheap energy.

This might be the first time RK and I have agreed on a topic, so maybe the world is about to end. In which case, gas prices don't matter a whole lot. :)
 

Dennis P Roth

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Dec 30, 2005
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Avenue, Southern Maryland, USA N 38º 14.587' W
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2006 Golf GLS REFLEX SILVER
Diesel - RUG gap widens
National average RUG $2.914 Diesel $2.876 survey of 4-24-06
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
The gap between RUG and Diesel widens, But contain your schadenfreude, because while RUG is up 13.1 cents/gal, diesel is up 11.1 cents/gal :(

[/FONT]I think I could stand diesel costing more than RUG if both were cheaper.
 
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sleze

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Jul 22, 2005
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Philadelphia, PA
TDI
Passat Wagon, 2005, Shadow Blue - DECEASED
I thought that diesel goes down in the summer because it doesn't need the anti-gel treatment.
 

vwestlife

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Dec 1, 2004
Location
central NJ, USA
TDI
1997 B4 Passat TDI sedan (sold)
When I went out to lunch today, a no-name "Raceway" station had their prices all in order: $2.73, $2.83, $2.93, and $3.03 for diesel, RUG, mid-grade, and premium, respecively. When I passed by 20 minutes later the diesel price was $2.77. I dunno if they had different prices on either side of the sign or if they actually got someone to climb up and change it that quickly.
 

fredb

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Mar 27, 2004
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Phishland
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2003/golf gl blue tdi auto
DrewD said:
So that's how the free market system works.....people complain and prices go down. Its a shame those Arabs won't let us drill for oil in Alaska. They have probably bribed every environmentalist to oppose drilling there.
Wow talk about under informed...;)
 

fredb

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Phishland
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2003/golf gl blue tdi auto
mishajmo said:
The war in Iraq has nothing to do with America's lust for cheaper oil and/or gas, stop being so obtuse. It's either that or your naive, disengenous or have ulterior motives for even trying to connect the issues.

If that were the case, we'd be pumping Iraq dry and we'd have 1.50/gallon here at home.

If you want to blame somebody or some historical event, you can try the following:

Saddam for invading Kuwait, which made us set up shop in Saudi, which ticked off Bin Laden enough for him to declare war on us in '96, which led him to bomb several US interests even before 9/11.

When we're forced to blow up Iran's nuclear facilities and gas hits about 8 bucks per gallon you can blame Amadejihad (sic) for thinking the US would be toothless since he got the idea from back when he was a hostage taker during Jimmy Carter's lack of sac during the hostage crisis--storming an embassy itself a casus belli for war.

Actually, blame the whole thing on Carter for doing nothing i/r/t Afghanistan--from that we get Bin Laden and the happy band of Taliban in the first place and the rest follows.

Blame the future 500,000 dead Koreans on both sides of the DMZ (and the subsequent explosion in silicon prices) on Carter and Clinton, too, for that idiotic deal they made with Kim Jong-Il.
Whew man:eek: you gotta stop watching Fox news network..

my republican friend blames it all on jfk.
I blame it on woodrow wilson.

oh yea 2.99 /gal just about everywhere around here
 
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TobiC

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Apr 20, 2006
Location
S W Wales UK
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1994 Audi 80 Avant TDI ~108
$3 a gallon? I dream of $3 a gallon. Here in the UK I pay $7.6 a uk gallon that $6.3 US gallon Most places it's $6.6 USG that's $8ukg in a car that does 50mpg US that's 13c a mile. In the UK that's 16c a mile
 

PDJetta

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Northern Virginia
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'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
At the local Crown station diesel fuel went up to $2.999 a gallon (from about 2.60, I think) immediately following Hurrican Katrina last year. Diesel has been that price at that Crown since then, except for a brief period when it went to $3.09 a gallon a few months back. Gas prices at that Crown were all over the place, from about $3.00 after the said Hurricane, to a low of $2.05 a gallon, about three months ago. Diesel was still 2.999 a gallon then. Now, gas is $3.05 a gallon. Diesel is $2.99 there.

I remember buying diesel fuel a couple of months back for $2.50 at a Citgo five miles away from that Crown when its diesel was $2.99!

--Nate
 

TDIinTX

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Dallas, Texas
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2002
It's puzzling to me how despite all that the TDI cars have to offer, fuel economy notwithstanding, the general public is still so stand-offish about them. This hybrid nonsense--have you ever driven a hybrid? Try gunning away from a stop sign. You have to wait for the gas engine to kick on--a full second delay. And they still get about 10 miles to the gallon less, which means that in most parts of the country you're still burning more of a more expensive fuel. When I start to tell people about my car sometimes, they seem intrigued, yet they still say, "Yeah, I'm looking at getting a Honda or a Hyundai. They get over 30 mpg." Uh, have you not been listening to what I've just told you? Maybe people will catch on some day. Maybe we need some jazzy commercials with "dealer incentives" and lots of aerial shots of Jettas driving through the mountains. Or we could go the Mercury route and just put a hot chick in one and tell her to act like she's having a blast driving it.
 

fallingwindows

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Mar 4, 2003
Location
CO
TDI
2013 Sportwagen
Anyone get the spam email about boycotting Exxon/Mobil gas stations to lower the gas prices?

Funny - everyone got fired up about it here at work and thought it was a great idea. BUT IT WILL ONLY CAUSE PRICES TO GO UP FURTHER! Augh :D
 

Dunno513

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Feb 1, 2006
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Mirror Lake, NH
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2006 NB PD-TDI DSG
TobiC said:
$3 a gallon? I dream of $3 a gallon. Here in the UK I pay $7.6 a uk gallon that $6.3 US gallon Most places it's $6.6 USG that's $8ukg in a car that does 50mpg US that's 13c a mile. In the UK that's 16c a mile
I'll trade you fuel prices (mainly tax) if we can have the european work week and vacation average, college benefits, healthcare and other TRUE "social security" perks that come with some of those high prices on the other side of the pond. ;)

Oh yea, you get George W too.:D
 
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cptmox

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01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
Dunno513 said:
I'll trade you fuel prices (mainly tax) if we can have the european work week and vacation average, college benefits, healthcare and other TRUE "social security" perks that come with some of those high prices on the other side of the pond. ;)

Oh yea, you get George W too.:D
:) LMAO :)

Do they get to unload Tony Blair on us? Maybe we should just stick with W. He's predictable, and will be gone in <2 years. If we have to take TB and his longer contract, we should at least get a first round draft pick.
 

McBrew

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Annapolis, MD
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2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
fallingwindows, the funniest one I heard was a guy on gasbuddy forums who said we should all just put $20 in our tanks instead of filling up. Then the gas stations would (for some reason) have all this extra gas in their tanks and would promptly lower the price to get rid of it. What a moron.
 

fallingwindows

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Location
CO
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2013 Sportwagen
Yup. It's capitalism, folks - Americans nearly always shop by the bottom line and little else. It's the reason Walmart is taking over the world and we have this huge immigration debate/problem.

The only way gas prices are going to go down is to reduce demand - and that means buying smaller, more efficient cars and driving them less to boot. Even if prices don't go down then, the world will be better off!

Seems criminal to have all this wonderful technology and ignore it in a search for pure profit.
 

snoopis

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Aug 18, 2002
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Arlington, TX, USA
TDI
2002 Golf GLS TDI, 5spd
Diesel and gas here in the DFW area are around $2.80, with diesel usually the same or a little cheaper than gas. Biodiesel was either $2.49 or $2.59 last night, I can't remember- but sold out! I'll have to try again this afernoon. Anyway, much better than the $3 they were charging in CO and NM.

I just hope they don't tax the oil companies additionally for their profits. I think it will just shift the profit from them to the government, without the rest of us saving any money. I prefer to keep the government starving for cash. Besides, they probably make more money from oil than the oil companies do anyway, why give them more? Also, if they only taxed American oil companies, we would probably just start importing more fuel(cheaper, less taxed) than we already do. I wouldn't like that.

I just don't see how increasing the tax on something is supposed to make it cheaper.

The oil companies have been spending money repairing oil infrastructure in the gulf, looking for oil in other places, etc. ANWR, oil in the shales in Canada, etc. If we can get everything back on-line, and tap some newer sources(all paid for by these profits), and the enviros let them build a new refinery or ten, I could see oil going back towards $2 within a year. Call me optimistic. ;)
 

fallingwindows

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Location
CO
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2013 Sportwagen
You're optimistic :rolleyes: Supplies are finite, demand is growing by leaps and bounds (India, China). I don't think there's any way to significantly lower prices unless they play a shell game with the numbers and get the money from us in taxes, whether gas taxes or 'unrelated' taxes.
 

cptmox

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Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
snoopis said:
I just don't see how increasing the tax on something is supposed to make it cheaper.
I know a few people who quit smoking cigarettes because they became too expensive due to taxation. They went from 1 or 2 packs a day (say $5 per day) to zero.

Not the same thing, but it did achieve some objectives: Reduced demand (muy importante!), influenced big tobacco to increase exportation of cigs to countries with huge populations that could use some...smokes, generated income for some stupid a$$ govt. programs that would have normally come from an increase in my property taxes.

No tax really makes things cheaper, but it just MIGHT improve your economic situation in the long run.
 

otbBlaine

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Orange County, Ca
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2002 Golf
As of this morning, here in Tempe the Shell stations are the highest in the valley at $3.19 for D2...Western States has B100 for $2.91. Guess where I'm filling up?
 

jayp111

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Undisclosed location
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cptmox said:
I know a few people who quit smoking cigarettes because they became too expensive due to taxation. They went from 1 or 2 packs a day (say $5 per day) to zero.

Not the same thing, but it did achieve some objectives: Reduced demand (muy importante!), influenced big tobacco to increase exportation of cigs to countries with huge populations that could use some...smokes, generated income for some stupid a$$ govt. programs that would have normally come from an increase in my property taxes.

No tax really makes things cheaper, but it just MIGHT improve your economic situation in the long run.
There have been several threads on this here....I'm all for Taxing the CRAP out of Petro Fuel.......so we pay the REAL cost of Petro @ the pump while also reducing income taxes.......you want to drive that 12 MPG thats OK....but you're going to pay for the fuel.....heavily...Cant wait for $4/gal.....then we'll see promotion of Alt Fuels and more efficient cars....AND fewer Excusions with 1 person in 'em
 

Sig Dawg

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Weyburn, sask
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05 Passat
Gas here right now is $1.145/L and diesel is $0.999/L which works out to 5.469 CAD$/US Gal or 4.834 US$/US Gal for reg unleaded,
and Diesel is 3.781 CAD/US Gal or 3.342 US$/US Gal.
Our Liberty is a bit of a gas pig, but I'm definitely glad I have my Passat.

Last year we were paying more for fuel here, than in Toronto. I have 3 pumpjacks pumping oil out of the ground on my quarter section, and I have to pay more for fuel than someone who is 2000 km+ from any oil well, doesn't make much sense does it. BTW I live in one of the largest oil patches in Saskatchewan, I can probably see 75 - 100 oil wells from my house.
 

snoopis

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Arlington, TX, USA
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2002 Golf GLS TDI, 5spd
justpaddlek1 said:
I'm all for Taxing the CRAP out of Petro Fuel.......so we pay the REAL cost of Petro @ the pump
I've seen some estimates where they total the associated costs and throw in the kitchen sink, and it's quite a bit more than what we pay at the pump. Luckily, some of them are things that the whole world benefits from, not just us Americans. I figure if we get the rest of the world to pay their share, it shouldn't affect us too significantly at the pump. Who do we send to collect?
 

Borborygmi

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Cedar Park, TX
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2003 Jetta Wagon
There are at least one of two things we all agree on. We like driving VW's or we like paying less for fuel, or both. I guess that is three things, or actually four things, in case somebody doesn't like both. (You in the back, put your hand down!)

I am in it for the first three reasons, if you will forgive the redundancy. Efficient cars are also good for the planet. I don't know if diesel is best, but I am looking forward to cleaner diesel cars. Don't know about the wisdom of anti-pollution methods that reduce mileage. I would like to see some intelligent compromises between emissions and fuel economy. This might be possible if it were not for the control of Congress by the oil industry.
 

spoilsport

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Houston TX
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2000 Golf GLS Silver (Sold). 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon Tiptronic (daughter's)
Everybone loves high gas prices, but perhaps none more than this guy.



Former Exxon Mobil CEO Lee Raymond who reportedly left the oil giant with a $400M retirement package.

That's almost half a chip......danged impressive!!
 

PoloTDI-06

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Apr 18, 2006
Location
London, UK
TDI
Polo 1.9 100ps TDI (06)
spoilsport said:
Everybone loves high gas prices, but perhaps none more than this guy.



Former Exxon Mobil CEO Lee Raymond who reportedly left the oil giant with a $400M retirement package.

That's almost half a chip......danged impressive!!
It looks like he ate half of that!
 
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