Electronic actuators using N75 on MKIV

[blizzard60]

I'm looking for some help on a turbo upgrade project. I've got a GTB2056VK on it's way. I have read somewhere that it may be possible to remap the N75 to control an electronic actuator.

I do not have the technical knowledge to figure out the computer side of things, but I am quite adept with wiring and have tonnes of OE wire and connectors/terminals. If someone can point me in the direction of where I could find some info about this, I'd love to start a little "how-to".

I have spoken to Mark Malone who does my tuning about this, and he is looking into it too.

My car is an '04 BEW, if that matters!

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[Farfromovin]

I'm not sure this is such an easy conversion. I know that Rub87, along others, looked into this some time ago. I suppose the easy way would be to just ditch the electronic setup, but you don't like taking the easy road huh LOL.

--off topic--Shoot, I'd swap my EDC15 harness/ECU for an EDC16 if I knew that my cruise control would work ;-)

 

[blizzard60]

--off topic--Shoot, I'd swap my EDC15 harness/ECU for an EDC16 if I knew that my cruise control would work ;-)

Who've you been talking to?!?!!

I'm not sure this is such an easy conversion. I know that Rub87, along others, looked into this some time ago. I suppose the easy way would be to just ditch the electronic setup, but you don't like taking the easy road huh LOL.

Easy usually = wrong for me!! I've actually done a bunch of reading up on this in the last 1/2 hour and it looks like several people HAVE got it working! I'll keep digging...

 

[Farfromovin]

Who've you been talking to?!?!!

The 6spd is the issue. Not many (any) EDC16's with the extra gear... ECU doesn't like it apparently

 

[blizzard60]

Well, that might indeed be an "issue"!!!!!!

Is this a plausible argument: "honey, the 6 speed transmission that I got is causing major problems with my motor. I'm going to have to buy a european engine now. But they are only available with 4motion, so I'll need new floor pan and a bunch of other stuff. In fact, it would probably just be easiest to buy a wrecked TT. That all sound okay to you?"

Yeah, that'll fly...

 

[T3-UN1]

I'm looking for some help on a turbo upgrade project. I've got a GTB2056VK on it's way. I have read somewhere that it may be possible to remap the N75 to control an electronic actuator.

I do not have the technical knowledge to figure out the computer side of things, but I am quite adept with wiring and have tonnes of OE wire and connectors/terminals. If someone can point me in the direction of where I could find some info about this, I'd love to start a little "how-to".

I have spoken to Mark Malone who does my tuning about this, and he is looking into it too.

My car is an '04 BEW, if that matters!

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Cheers,
-Chris

Im doing this at the moment. What I know is that there are 2 different actuators. One is working with PWM and one not. The originals which come with gtb1756vk and gtb2260vk are not working, but you can replace just the plastic cover with the electronic board. you can take the ones from merceds/ford/and some of audi two, for example 4.2 tdi gtb1749vl.. i did it on the bench with my edc15 alh and i think it will work. just cange the frequency in map for n75 from 300Hz to 140 Hz and it will work....
Maybe I can show result in a month or two, whan all the mapping is done and the car is on the road again...
for some pictures look here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3046348&postcount=20

 

[blizzard60]

Turbo project, for me, is gonna have to wait indefinitely...

We are expecting a second child!!!!!

After doing some research into what I asked above, and after T3-UN1 posts above, I'm not sure this thread needs to stay open. I guess that's up to the mods!

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[Growler]

Congrats on the new addition Chris

seems like a good thread to me. and its got a good start already. so I vote keep it open.

 

[Pugsley]

Well this is an interesting way to do it. I wonder.. If the output from the ECU to the n75 is PWM... whats the input to the electric actuator?

Im betting that a Arduino with some programming can bridge the 2 together. I would be interested in this just for a stock vnt15. It has to be better then the way it works now. I know how to use the Arduino, so if i know what the input to the actuator need to be I should be able to get the Arduino to do the conversion work for me. Hell add a external pot and some more programing and it becomes "tunable".

 

[blizzard60]

The input of the Hella on the Mercs, etc. is PWM @ 140hz. Most of the VW/Audi ones are CAN now.

Tons of fantastic info here:
http://superturbodiesel.com/std/garrett-712120-vnt-hella-6nw-008-412-actuator-t-614.html

I'm honestly surprised that this isn't really "common" to do at this point... Seems like the logical way to go.

@ Growler: Thanks for the congrats!

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[Pugsley]

Ok so after reading all that I understand now how to drive the actuator. So on a standard ALH n75 valve... the signal that runs it is just 300hz PWM? So all i need to do is feed that in an analog input and convert it (and/or insert some tuning) and send it out to the actuator. Thus removing the vacuum portion of things. So now you can get the stock ECU to run the electronic actuator directly using the electric it normally sends to the n75 (through the Arduino)?

If so this would be way more responsive then the way things are done now. and would make tuning it (for me) allot simpler. Not that I would want to do that right away.

Does the electronic actuator mount to a VNT15 or will it have to be modded on with some bracketry?

It sounds like the guys at superturbodiesel are trying to get this to work on cars that don't even have turbos or ways to control them. With us it seems its just a matter of converting the signal form the n75 into something to run the actuator.

 

[T3-UN1]

Ok so after reading all that I understand now how to drive the actuator. So on a standard ALH n75 valve... the signal that runs it is just 300hz PWM? So all i need to do is feed that in an analog input and convert it (and/or insert some tuning) and send it out to the actuator. Thus removing the vacuum portion of things. So now you can get the stock ECU to run the electronic actuator directly using the electric it normally sends to the n75 (through the Arduino)?

If so this would be way more responsive then the way things are done now. and would make tuning it (for me) allot simpler. Not that I would want to do that right away.

Does the electronic actuator mount to a VNT15 or will it have to be modded on with some bracketry?

It sounds like the guys at superturbodiesel are trying to get this to work on cars that don't even have turbos or ways to control them. With us it seems its just a matter of converting the signal form the n75 into something to run the actuator.

Why do ypou want to use an electronic actuator on an old turbo? doesent meake sense for me..
But if you want to use modern turbochargers, until today you have to covert it to vacuum..
So my way is just to change frequency in the ecu and use the mercedes board for the actuator and everything is done...
no more converting of brackets and levers stop screws and so on.... just like lego changing the electronic board with one that comes with pwm input from stock...

 

[blizzard60]

I think that is kinda what I implied a couple of posts back. All that needs to happen is convert from 300hz to 140hz. No more crawling under the car to see if you've set the vacuum up right !!

What I don't know is: can the PWM output be changed via TUNE IN THE ECM, or will you have to run a board somewhere to convert?

I think that's what we'd all like to know!!!

-Chris

 

[Pugsley]

I was unaware that the 15 is old. I just want to do if for the exact reason blizzard mentions. That and i think the electronic would be better at preventing spikes.

But yes the big question is can the stock ECU be remapped or will a converter board be needed. Either way I want to do it. I guess when I pull the other engine out of the wrecked bug I can look at it and see just how much of a PITA it would be to retrofit the electronic actuator to the vnt15.

 

[T3-UN1]

I was unaware that the 15 is old. I just want to do if for the exact reason blizzard mentions. That and i think the electronic would be better at preventing spikes.

But yes the big question is can the stock ECU be remapped or will a converter board be needed. Either way I want to do it. I guess when I pull the other engine out of the wrecked bug I can look at it and see just how much of a PITA it would be to retrofit the electronic actuator to the vnt15.

ECU (every EDC15 not older MSA) could be remapped... Just did it on ALH...
but i dont think you can improve anything on old vnt15.. maybe on bigger turbos. but the smaller ones have good response anyway...

 

[Dankemp]

does anyone have the pin out for a pwm actuator ?

 

[snadam]

Well this is an interesting way to do it. I wonder.. If the output from the ECU to the n75 is PWM... whats the input to the electric actuator?

Im betting that a Arduino with some programming can bridge the 2 together. I would be interested in this just for a stock vnt15. It has to be better then the way it works now. I know how to use the Arduino, so if i know what the input to the actuator need to be I should be able to get the Arduino to do the conversion work for me. Hell add a external pot and some more programing and it becomes "tunable".

I was just poking around on the web doing some non-TDI related research and stumbled across an Arduino CAN-BUS shield. For those that aren't familiar with Arduino, it's a small circuit board microcontroller that can be programmed to do all manner of nifty things. The board has multiple digital inputs/outputs and multiple analog inputs/outputs. The boards are inexpensive, a starter kit with board, LED's resistors, cables, and programming environment runs about $65. One of the cool features of the Arduino is that you can stack other circuit boards on top to add functionality; the add-on boards are known as shields. And as I said earlier I stumbled across a CAN-BUS shield for $45 that adds to the Arduino and allows it to connect to and communicate with a CAN-BUS network. It appears that the designers intend it more for data logging but from some of the comments it looks like people are using them for control functions as well.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10039

Adam

 

[Libang]

does anyone have the pin out for a pwm actuator ?

1: 12V
2: GND
3: CAN_H
4: PWM
5: CAN_L

this is for MB PWM electronic