Delayed Air Conditioning

[alicat2441]

Not sure if I'm in the right area being a newbie, but here is goes. I have a 2010 VW jetta TDI with 72K milage. My A/C started going out intermittently over 3 days, but the last 2 days has worked fine-at stop, city driving, and highway. Just took it to the dealer here in Las Vegas and they want $1700 to fix. Service person explanation sounded strange. To paraphrase he said that the pressure in the AC compressor is low and when that happens "particles" clog up the line and cool air doesn't flow. Now I'm a girl and that doesn't sound right, even to me. So I refused the fix and checked out. On the paper given at check out it says:

"Inspected A/C Blows 48 degrees at idle then at 2,000 RPM blows 75 degrees, checked charge, 525 Grams, Checked pressures, 200 PSI Idle, 2,000 RPM high side drops to 125 PSI, Compressor not producing pressure off idle."

I did a quick search on Google and this seems to be a common problem with the 2010 VW Jetta TDI and some forum boards are saying that it is a high pressure valve or RCV (?) fix.

I know the compressor works, just not all the time so that makes me think it is a pressure valve. Seems to me the dealer just wants to replace the whole thing and make money instead of pinpointing the problem and saving the consumer money.

Oh, almost forgot to mention that the fans run fine from low to high. And when the AC didn't work right for 3 days the way I got AC was shutting off the fan for about 10 sec then turning back on and cool/cold air would be produced.

Any ideas? or thoughts?

 

[DanG144]

It sounds as if you may have a problem that can be troubleshot with a VCDS system.
Look in the TDI 101 forum for a thread on how to locate someone willing to share the use of their system. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=296841

You could also post a new thread in your local area forum, asking for VCDS help.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

Look in this post for some tips on troubleshooting.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253641

PM me or email me (left click on my name for address) if you need help over the phone to do the troublehooting.

The dealer, indeed any local shop, will not usually offer to replace the RCV, if that is indeed what is wrong. But if that is what is needed some local shops will do it for you, if you bring the part, and agree that the work is not warranteed.

 

[alicat2441]

Thanks Dan. I did what you suggested and sent an email to a guy that has a VCDS that will diagnose the A/C, but he hasn't gotten back to me. The other thing I need to know is where the A/C compressor is located so I can find out whether it is a Sanden or Zexel and the model number? Google is giving me no idea where the A/C compressor is located.

My gut is telling me that the problem is the RCV, but not sure how to trouble shoot it to get a definitive answer.

 

[DanG144]

The compressor is the bottom front component on the serpentine belt loop. It is driven by the same belt that powers the alternator.

 

[DanG144]

I would go ahead and post in your area forum, if you still have not heard from the VCDS owner. Often you have to reach out to half a dozen owners, so if there are any others on your list, go ahead and try for them as well.

The RCV is the most common failure, but we just recently had a case of the breakaway coupler being broken - it has the exact same symptoms as a totally failed RCV, until you look to see if the shaft is turning.

 

[williamgd2]

glandpuck the low side pressure increases with the outside temp so if it's in the 90s your low side pressure could be where it should be at 50

 

[DanG144]

glandpuck the low side pressure increases with the outside temp so if it's in the 90s your low side pressure could be where it should be at 50

This statement is correct only for systems that are not running. And if the system is not running and the ambient is 90 degrees, the pressure should be 105 psig.

Once they are in operation, the low side pressure is controlled by the RCV (Refrigerant Control Valve - mechanical and internal to the compressor in some systems, electrically controlled and mounted externally on others.)

At 90 degrees ambient, the initial low side pressure should start at 90 psig and rapidly drop to the 25 to 35 psig range.

 

[ScubaMedic]

You can add another one being fixed by the RCV. I should have looked into this two years ago when it started acting up. To be honest I don't think it was ever right. After my HPFP failure I decided it was either getting fixed or sold.

A GOOD set of snap ring pliers is really useful though.

 

[williamgd2]

I had this same problem with the delayed A/C and I brought it to the dealer and they replaced something under warranty. It worked for 1 day then started blowing cold to warm to cold so I assume they didn't vacuum the system properly or not at all. Then it started the delayed a/c thing again. So I vacuumed the system myself and using a digital scale put exactly 525 grams of R134A in what the sticker under the hood says Now it works right away and is the coldest it has ever been.

 

[Robert6401]

Chalk up another RCV victory story. I got with Dan (God Bless this man) on Sunday, and we had some not-so-definitive VCDS readings, but we decided to go ahead and swap the RCV since he had one on hand.

My AC is 100% better than it was. That being said, it's not as cool as I think it should be, but at least now I can take long trips on a 90F day and not sweat my you-know-what off. I'm considering tinting the windows as the next step to getting a really cold interior.

 

[mhx]

Cursious to see what outcomes you guys have had with the RCV fix long term.

Ive been told by two dealers, and two VW shops that replacing the RCV doesnt work. Yet this post is so huge.

Could anyone share how your AC has been working 6mo-12mo after you replaced the RCV?

 

[redbarron55]

10/6/11 I installed a chinese RCV and have had no problems since.

Here is the post I made at the time:

redbarron55
Veteran Member

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Satsuma, Alabama
TDI(s): 2009 Jetta TDI Sportwagen

I just finished replaceing the RCV on my 2009 JSW. It started with not cooling at low speeds or stopped. I found a flapper on the shroud missing and replaced that. Then I thought I was good to go, but the delay continued.
I added the ICE 32 and that helped. my wife assured me that the problem had not gone away. The A/C seemed to over cool and then cutoff sometimes.
I ordered and waited for the $21.00 Chinese valve plus shipping. This afternoon I had a chance to replace it and recharge the system.
I started ar 6:30 and finished at 9:00. An hour was spent going looking for a replacement internal snap ring after the original vanished.
Now to the point.
The system seems to work well (no 100 F to test with tonight).
Of interest is the modulation of the valve current in response to the inside temp and setting of the temp control.
Previously the current seemed to be either 0 or .820. Now it varied as the driving speed changes and temp demand varies.
I will keep the forum informed as to the results as esperience is gained.
Mostly I will see if SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED is happy with it.

Later I have made several trips and the A/C works like new and cools and controls perfectly
and cools and controls perfectly

 

[aj164]

2006 Jetta
Had delayed AC for the past 3-4 years, but never longer than ~2 minutes. This summer, I noticed poor cooling. I replaced the RCV last week along with the drier and o-rings at every fitting.
The AC has been absolutely wonderful since. However, the past two days I've notice a delay. After heat-soaking all day in >100F temps, it delayed 20-30 seconds. We'll see how it goes the rest of the summer.

UPDATE 6/2015
The delay is almost every time now. It is 1-2 minutes. The AC also stops cooling once in a while in the middle of a drive for about a minute, and then it starts working again.

I also replaced the small radiator fan, and I thoroughly cleaned the condenser coil fins. Many of the fins are beat in from bugs and rocks. If I had known, I would have bought a new condenser assembly and just replaced it.

 

[zleem60]

The delay on mine since replacing the RCV in August 2011 is minimal. Before the RCV replacement, he delay was 7-10 minutes long. Now it is more like seconds. I don't even notice it because I'm usually cool down by the time I hit the main road to go to work. It is going to take a little time to cool especially in >100 degrees weather. When It hit 115 in Phoenix. Took longer to cool the car down. But no 7-10 minutes delay. Overall, the RCV replacement fixed my delay problem and its been almost two years. For a $25 fix, well worth it.

 

[aj164]

I didn't find the $25 source. My RCV was around $65 + shipping. The drier was $22. I didn't see it mentioned in the thread, but replacing the drier is no small task! It added several hours to the job. I had never removed the car's "face" and bumper before, so I worked slowly.

To anyone reading this and thinking (as I did) you'll just "throw in a drier while you're at it": Replacing the drier takes several hours. If you have lots of miles and the fins are all beat up, consider to replace the whole condenser-drier assembly (~$200).

 

[adanmrocha]

Maybe do a Google search of the site for RCV, Refrigerant Control Valve and Kentucky. Someone had a link to a guy in Kentucky that had the RCV for sale.

I put an ounce of PAG 46 oil with ICE additive in one car that had been sticking badly, and it is now on 2 months of no sticking.

So you may not even need the RCV.

Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum but been following for a while, since it seems i bought the most broken down VW.
I got to this thread because i was having issues with my AC, when outside temp was about 100 ~ 112 F i had problems with the AC Blowing warm air and then cool air and so on, sometimes in the morning had the delay other times not, it also blew warm air when accelerating, i was really tired of this problem because temps have been really high!! 110+ so started by looking here, btw i found the RGV valve at my local store for 350 Pesos, which is about 28 dlls. Anyway i decided to try what Dan did, so i took the car to empty the gas and fill with PAG 46 & ICE 32 Aditive Oil (8 dlls and 2 cans of Gas) the first day did not seem to cool enough was getting cool but not cold air, the second day was not hot enough to be sure (80 ~ 90 F) but today was hot as hell and the A/C has been working like a charm. it seems that the oil did the trick. Will keep posted about the results but as of today it seems that the problem is gone.

Thanks Dan!

 

[mhx]

Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum but been following for a while, since it seems i bought the most broken down VW.
I got to this thread because i was having issues with my AC, when outside temp was about 100 ~ 112 F i had problems with the AC Blowing warm air and then cool air and so on, sometimes in the morning had the delay other times not, it also blew warm air when accelerating, i was really tired of this problem because temps have been really high!! 110+ so started by looking here, btw i found the RGV valve at my local store for 350 Pesos, which is about 28 dlls. Anyway i decided to try what Dan did, so i took the car to empty the gas and fill with PAG 46 & ICE 32 Aditive Oil (8 dlls and 2 cans of Gas) the first day did not seem to cool enough was getting cool but not cold air, the second day was not hot enough to be sure (80 ~ 90 F) but today was hot as hell and the A/C has been working like a charm. it seems that the oil did the trick. Will keep posted about the results but as of today it seems that the problem is gone.

hanks Dan!

Something simple to try: Check you AC fuse & Climate Control Fuse.

 

[T-MILLS]

Hey guys, Im about to replace my RCV valve. I just got in a new one today but i have a quick question if someone could help me. I see that people are trying the PAG 46? oil with the ice additive. I just want to clear up some confusion, I thought the oil goes into a reservoir on the compressor itself and not into the system. Is it safe to just add it into the system where you add the freon?

Thanks in advance.

 

[redbarron55]

If you use the same Freon I did it has the additive in it already.
As to the oil there is little oil lost when replaceing the valve so little is needed to be replaced don't over do the amount.
I also tried the ICE32 early on and it halped for a little while and then I had to replace the valve.

 

[T-MILLS]

So how do you add the PAG oil to the system? Can you just put it in the high or low side ports?

 

[redbarron55]

The ICE 32 is mixed in the R134A and will be added if you change the valve after evacuating the system and recharging.
If you add oil you will have to read the instructions on the oil charge can you would by at the store. Sometimes the oil has a small freon charge to push in the oil.
If added without this the oil is placed in an adapter that is used to inject the oil into the system.
The short answer is I don't know the correct answer to the question.

 

[T-MILLS]

Well you can add another one to the list of bad RCV's. Just got my put in 2 days ago for $140 plus $30 for the RCV (i bought the china one) but my A/C is working awesome and im back to loving my little Jetta again.

 

[dieselindio]

I am assuming you have to get under the car to change the RCV. Since I don't have a proper lift, I want to take it to a mechanic.

Any thoughts on how much something like this would set me back?

 

[aj164]

It was sufficient for me to drive onto some low-profile ramps and work from underneath on a creeper. The RCV swap only takes a few minutes (plus removing the splash pan to get access). The bulk of your efforts are in discharging and recharging the system, and that's where your dollars at a shop might go farther -- especially if you don't already have gauges and associated HVAC paraphernalia.

 

[dieselindio]

Is this the right part? This from Autozone. Mentioned in another thread.

 

[zleem60]

Is this the right part? This from Autozone. Mentioned in another thread.

That is an Expansion Valve. not RCV. The RCV is located within the AC compressor.

 

[DanG144]

And even for the TXV, thermal expansion valve, that one looks strange. The OEM ones have a bulb on the inside, not the outside.
It may work as a TXV, on a VW, or it may not.

As mentioned earlier, this thread has been dealing with RCV, Refrigerant Control Valves which are a type of electrically controlled compressor control valve, mounted on the rear of the compressor.

 

[dieselindio]

thanks for that guys before I got it.

So where do I buy a RCV for 2009 Sportwagen?

 

[etextdi]

thanks for that guys before I got it.

So where do I buy a RCV for 2009 Sportwagen?

determine the brand of ac compressor on your vehicle by examining the compressor and looking for a name plate. I used a mirror and flashlight and did it from the top side.took about 2 minutes.Mine was a Sanden.....

several choices. I used Sanden.com and searched by car model,etc, and got the Sanden compressor number. Then I went to polarbearinc.com. search on the main page. Valves,compressor valves. Look for your Sanden compressor number. drop the prefix letter and the suffix letter, ie. U8642a= 8642.
other folks are using a different source.perhaps they'll chime in.

 

[DanG144]

polarbearinc is as good a place to get one as any.