Chevy Cruze Turbo Diesel now said to be cheating?!

[ZippyNH]

https://consumerist.com/2016/06/22/...use-of-emissions-defeat-device/#more-10245224

Owners of Chevy Cruze Turbo Diesel vehicles filed the lawsuit [PDF] in a U.S. District Court in California this week accusing the company of deceptively marketing the vehicles as “GM’s cleanest diesel engine ever” even though they knew the cars produce illegally high levels of pollution.

According to the lawsuit, the Cruze Turbo Diesel is advertised as a “clean diesel” with emissions below U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards and sold for an additional $2,000 or more compared to similar gasoline models.

crap...was thinking it might be an option...nobody seems to be talking about them here...not even many users from what I can tell.

 

[n1das]

I call BS on the data presented in the article. IIRC, the Gen1 CR TDIs had real world NOx levels as high at 2.8 mg/mile, or approximately 40X above the limit. The article quotes NOx data 2 orders of magnitude higher from the Cruze diesel compared to a Gen1 CR TDI.

The suit claims the diesel-engine Cruze emits far more pollution on the road than in lab tests and that these vehicles exceed federal and state standards for nitrogen oxide emission by 1.8 to 13.8 times.

In fact, the tests found that in highway driving the Cruze averaged 128 mg/mile with a high of 557 mg/mile, while stop-and-go driving averaged 231 mg/mile, translating to about 1.8 to eight times the federal standards.

 

[wxman]

I call BS on the data presented in the article. IIRC, the Gen1 CR TDIs had real world NOx levels as high at 2.8 mg/mile, or approximately 40X above the limit. The article quotes NOx data 2 orders of magnitude higher from the Cruze diesel compared to a Gen1 CR TDI.

Hi David. The Jetta TDI had max NOx emissions of 2.8 grams/mile, which would be 2800 mg/mile. The T2B5 regulatory limit (FTP) for NOx is 0.07 grams/mile or 70 mg/mile.

The NOx regulatory limit for the highway test cycle is 1.33 times the FTP regulatory limit, or about 0.09 grams/mile (90 mg/mile). So I would argue that the 557 mg/mile max NOx emissions during highway driving testing is about 6 times the regulatory limit, not 8 times.

At any rate, it still amazes me that there seems to be such a willingness, almost an eagerness, to give gasoline engines a pass on emissions, while at the same time, to enthusiastically indict diesel engines for their "dirty" emissions in spite of the fact that gasoline engines (both GDI and PFI) been shown to have very high particle emissions in some off-cycle, real-world driving conditions (up to 25 times the FTP regulatory limit for PM), not to mention most other emissions.

 

[n1das]

Hi David. The Jetta TDI had max NOx emissions of 2.8 grams/mile, which would be 2800 mg/mile. The T2B5 regulatory limit (FTP) for NOx is 0.07 grams/mile or 70 mg/mile.
The NOx regulatory limit for the highway test cycle is 1.33 times the FTP regulatory limit, or about 0.09 grams/mile (90 mg/mile). So I would argue that the 557 mg/mile max NOx emissions during highway driving testing is about 6 times the regulatory limit, not 8 times.
At any rate, it still amazes me that there seems to be such a willingness, almost an eagerness, to give gasoline engines a pass on emissions, while at the same time, to enthusiastically indict diesel engines for their "dirty" emissions in spite of the fact that gasoline engines (both GDI and PFI) been shown to have very high particle emissions in some off-cycle, real-world driving conditions (up to 25 times the FTP regulatory limit for PM), not to mention most other emissions.

My bad. That was my knee jerk reaction without doing any math beforehand. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree with you on people's willingness and eagerness to demonize diesel to the point of almost legislating them out of existence. We need to help shake the "diesel is dirty and bad for the environment" mindset. It's education that needs to happen. I think this should be called out in the comments people file about the dieselgate scandal during the 30-day comment period after VW's plans are made public next week. I am planning to file comments.

It even boggles the minds of my coworkers all of whom are educated professionals when I tell them I choose diesel over gasoline for improving air quality and the environment. I am liking how really clean my BMWs are. I've done my exhaust pipe taste test demo a few times for friends and some coworkers. LOL, maybe I should shoot a video of it and post it up on YouTube and let it go viral. Gasser owners, let's see your exhaust pipe taste tests!

I would like to see a lot of DI gassers tested under real world driving conditions using PEMS. The focus is on diesel right now because of what VW did. IMHO, whether cheating is involved or not, emissions noncompliance under real world driving conditions will not be limited to VW and not limited to diesel. I think there are a lot of skeletons in the gasoline closet waiting to come out. ICCT and WVU, please test some DI gassers!

 

[ZippyNH]

Once demonized, it is tough to come back....
A typical modern diesel is clean than a gas motor....but cause it iso heavily regulated...and the items In the exaust which are regulated....
GDI gasoline motors are looking worse and worse...just a cat cleans the gasses...but the seem to have a particle issue like older diesels....but they are not on the radar....
The amount of tech needed on a modern diesel to keep them running clean is crazy...I admit I love them...my EA-288 is a great motor, BUT looking under the hood, it is a crazy mass of cooling lines, etc....will they last 400,000 miles....I doubt it...and that unfortunately will play into the math if DIESEL cars stay around....
I fortunately bought my Jetta TDI at a great price..and that's WHY I ended up in the diesel...a good deal made sense.....so I'm fine with either a fix or buyback, it almost a wash for me...folks who paid closer to MSRP are getting hosed....
The diselgate thing is just a replay of what happened with heavy trucks years ago....2010-12 to be precise...amazing it took so long to uncover...but I guess folks ad the belief that those "great German engineers " had found a way to make clean diesel motors for cars cheap and clean...well...I guess the ea-288 with all the complex stuff for a slight mpg gain made folks look....
Oh well....time to sleep on what I can do...the BMW diesel are a bit too $$ for my tastes....so I guess I will be back to gas if I sell....or chance keeping it, do I become a rare and hard to service limited 1 year motor car?! Oh well....

 

[Max Period]

VW TSI gassers will start to have GPFs starting around mid 2017.