Chevy Cruze Diesel a direct competitor to the Jetta TDI

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Second Turbo

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Don't Get Taken Every Time [ Remar Sutton ]

JM Popaleetus: > Usually, newspapers are the worst place to get automobile news/rumors.

Historically, this was due to the dominance of auto ad revenue in the typical newspaper's income. The local dealers were basically forced to run those ads by the car makers (and you paid for it in the price, often as a separate line item). Newspapers were not going to do anything to threaten that revenue stream, like, say run a review of the book in my reply Title here.

With the financial pressures on the auto industry, the rise of the internet, and the decline of print, the papers might now feel more independent ... just in time to be irrelevant.
 

ranger1

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Context matters

Context is everything. When the authors entire thought is posted, instead of just the last sentence, it reads very differently:

"The diesel Cruze will be launched in the first half of next year, as a 2014 model. It will have a short model life, as the entire Cruze line will be redesigned and updated in 2015. Given the engineering work required to certify the European diesel engine for sale in North America, though, the new 2015 Cruze will likely continue the diesel version, probably from launch."

Given that this was the authors comment and not GM's, it lead me to the opposite thought, the one I believe the author was trying to make. That being that the high cost of US EPA certification of a diesel vehicle in the US, combined with a short model year before changeover, will likely mean that they intend to build it for 2015 MY as well.


Made me wonder about GM's real commitment to this market when I read this:
"Given the engineering work required to certify the European diesel engine for sale in North America, though, the new 2015 Cruze will likely continue the diesel version, probably from launch."

Kind of sounds like they're setting themselves up for a one model year trial.
 

03_01_TDI

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It really doesn't matter how large the dealership is; it's still privately owned. The inspection was done by dealership staff, not GM. That's a disconnect that many people have a difficult time understanding. Your ownership experience has everything to do with the quality of the dealership you work with. I've seen this time and time again on CruzeTalk.com, but with all car manufacturers. In fact, you can go back to the same dealership 5 times and have them fail to properly diagnose the issue 5 times in a row, then take your car to another dealership and get it all resolved effortlessly the first time around. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

I have some contacts with many connections in GM if you need me to get a hold of someone. All it takes is one e-mail from me and you'll have a case manager from GM's executive office calling you regarding your problem.



There's some truth to that, but then there isn't at the same time. Culture isn't easily changed, but GM has made great strides. I took lawsuits in the state of Michigan to force a bad batch of clutches on Hyundais. GM did it simply out of acknowledgement that there was an issue. While the culture was certainly to blame for GM's failure, I would certainly say they have made remarkable progress.

As for "free money," let's not go there. I'm not in the mood for a flame war.

The private owned dealership uses the GM label and the GM certified pre-owned product as advertising and such products they sell under the GM label reflect poorly on all parties involved. GM created the CPO program and a website for it. GM sets the guidelines and approval. According to a friendly local dealer, GM does show up and perform inspections of the GM CPO labeled cars.

Thanks for the offer to help. I doubt GM cares if I proceed with criminal charges on the dirty dealership. But if I do take a criminal case I will ensure the media highlights it on the news. So GM may care about the overall bad publicity, but I doubt it.
 

Kabin

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It once was everyone complained about the lack of available domestic diesel cars. Now, it's probably just the fear of competition. No doubt, VW needs a good kick in the butt.

I welcome the new 2014 diesels arriving at showrooms. Although the new Cruze Diesel is too small, I'll test drive it. I'm also looking forward to test driving the new Ram 1500 v6 diesel.
 

JM Popaleetus

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GM sets the guidelines and approval.
Volkswagen sets up the guidelines and approved oil lists for our cars.

Yet somehow, all those privately owned dealerships across the country continue to mess up oil changes (seriously, oil changes of all things). And going by the link in your signature, looks like that has been going on for over a decade now...not just on the 2010s with 507.00. That's pretty sad.

Most recently, Volkswagen setup the guidelines for filling urea tanks using a special non-spill adapter. Yet privately owned dealerships continue to spill Urea all over our NMS Passat trunks because they cut corners and refuse to follow those guidelines.

In other words, what you're experiencing is not limited to GM...nor Volkswagen. You'll find bad dealers for EVERY brand.
 

kjclow

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It really doesn't matter how large the dealership is; it's still privately owned.
Not all dealerships are privately owned. There are some that are owned by corporate, at least for Chrysler and ford.
 

40X40

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It once was everyone complained about the lack of available domestic diesel cars. Now, it's probably just the fear of competition. No doubt, VW needs a good kick in the butt.
I welcome the new 2014 diesels arriving at showrooms. Although the new Cruze Diesel is too small, I'll test drive it. I'm also looking forward to test driving the new Ram 1500 v6 diesel.
I too, look forward to test driving these diesels. So far, the Passat TDI is in the lead for 'our next purchase'.


That was quite a video.... As I watched it, the phrase 'Arsenal of Democracy' was running through my mind over and over..... and THEN they finally said that exact phrase out loud in the video!
Hmm. I wonder if that was a coincidence or was I led in that direction?

Bill
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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VW is there, big time. R&D, production, supplier relationships.

Be it far from me to defend GM, but if a company can help recover from bankruptcy by entering and developing a huge new market, why is that a problem? Doesn't seem that anyone objects to GM producing and selling cars in Europe (I wonder how much of the 70% made outside the US are Europe) or Latin America (another big market). If GM had to rely solely on the US market in the past several years they'd probably be in far worse shape than they are now.

To stay on topic, keep in mind that the Cruze has strong links to Korea and Daewoo, and is also assembled in China, among many other places.
 
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JM Popaleetus

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Two of my brother-in-laws worked for GM in Detroit for years in Corporate jobs. They are out of work now (late 50's too!). Maybe if they spoke Chinese they could have gotten a transfer? :rolleyes:I wonder how long it will be until VAG plays the GM/China tune as loud as GM is doing?
China has the largest and fastest growing middle class on the planet. It'd be idiotic NOT to take advantage of that from a business perspective.

And BTW, guess what other country the Americanized NMS Passat is sold in? China. VW is playing the China card just as hard, don't kid yourself and think otherwise.
 

Roshermoore

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Diese Cruze Literature

I was at the Dallas Auto Show today and stopped by the Chevrolet section and asked about any firm date for the diesel Cruze to reach dealers.

No firm date but they did have literature about them for anyone who asked for it. So they must really be coming.
 

Oberkanone

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I was at the Dallas Auto Show today and stopped by the Chevrolet section and asked about any firm date for the diesel Cruze to reach dealers.

No firm date but they did have literature about them for anyone who asked for it. So they must really be coming.
Order guide for the diesel Cruze is posted in two separate threads. Yes, the diesel Cruze is really going to reach dealers. Initially in limited markets.
 

MrMopar

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No firm date but they did have literature about them for anyone who asked for it. So they must really be coming.
The had it, like, in print? To hand to you NOT in a link to a PDF on your phone or tablet?

When I looked at a Dodge Dart last year they didn't have printed brochures like they used to . . .
 

FLHX1550

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Well it is a fact that China is the larest car market in the world. Their economy is growing by leaps and bounds, and their middle class is going to be the most rich middle class within the next 5 - 10 years. Its a fact.

Now, for those who aren't aware of how business works over there, is that since it is communist, the government is envolved in every aspect of business vs a democratic situation where you can pretty much run your business however you want.

For example, if you want to start a machining business over there. The Chinese government will go and aquire your machining equipment for you and give it to you to use. They dictate what brand, price, etc..... that is paid for said equpment. Know how the Chinese overnment decideds which brand is purchased? They look back at who has "greased the skids" the most (ie: kick backs to the deciding government employees and organizations)

As far as the car business goes, EVERY car builder is wanting to sell in China. And they aren't going to just let any company walk in and set-up a dealership in Beijing after filling out a small business licensce. It's allot more politcal, and bascially, nobody is going to sell there unless they are supporting that economy (ie building cars there, lining the right people's pockets, etc...)

I've worked for over 15 years in the Machine Tool business (CNC Machines) and I have been witness to the evolution in manufacturing in this country and theirs, and know many people who are working in the manufacturing world over there. The great majority of this country is blind to how the influece on China is on the rest of the work, most particularly manufacturing. These are decisions made by OUR government in the early-mid 90's (NAFTA, etc...) that basically de-valued value of the Blue-Collar American worker to the point that society turned their heads on those will skilled trades. For 15 years we tol our kids that welding, machining, etc.. were "dirty jobs" and we pumped our society full of graduates that have non-skilled degrees and are finding the business world is flooded with too many people all ready sitting around with those skills doin nothing.

If you are still the kind of person that is making your purchasing decisions based on where something is made, your already 10 years behind the curve on the way the world really is. A US car builder isn't building in China because they want a cheaper labor force, they are doing it because they HAVE to. GM fought it longer than any other builder, with several large programs workin with Korea (Hyundai) but they were just delaying it.

They are just preparing themselves to be competitive for the next 5-10 years of growth in their business. If they don't, they will end up sufferin the same fate as your British car builders in the 60s and 70s. Companies like Triumph, MG, etc.... all chose to ignore the growth of the American and Asian markets, and rather to focus on who made the better British car. Eventually your VWs, Hondas, Toyotas and even Ford had great success in the UK, because their manufacturing engineering cut their costs and to the point in which they could deliver MUCH better engineeered cars, which are what people will buy. Regardless of where they are made.
 

El Dobro

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GM has updated their parts catalogs to include the Cruze diesel and the Spark EV.
 

El Dobro

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GM has recently updated their parts catalogs to include the Cruze diesel and the Spark EV.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Yes - you can still buy a face lifted Mk2 Jetta in China and many other parts of the world.
 

TDI2000Zim

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VW hat meinen '14 Passat TDiSE getötet.
But, I might like the new face on the old MK2 platform IF it had the ALH engine:

 

rotarykid

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I think their point is that a ALH A2 Body jetta is a really good platform for a diesel. I would just settle for one of the current Polo Bluemotion TDIs, it's a little bigger than my A2 body Jetta and can get double the mpgs. If GM ever wants my business they will have to break this trend of the diesel option only being given to heavier larger cars. They will have to start to offer smaller more fuel efficient diesel engines instead of like VW, only offering larger displacement engines.
 

Chris Tobin

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The majority of the car buying public "likes" good mileage, but doesn't purchase cars based solely on mileage. GM, VW or any other major manufacturer will likely NEVER build a car to cater specifically to this VERY small segment that value mileage above all other concerns and want micro cars, micro engines and stripped down lightweight appointments with said cars...

Especially for buyers coming from 15-20MPG SUVs and trucks and even those coming from 20-30MPG sedans getting 40+MPG is AMAZING and more than they could hope for.

I just drove back and forth to New York from Tennessee and I would say we averaged around 43-45MPG in our '06 (I didn't calculate it out yet) and I am more than happy with that MPG performance while I was driving 4-10 MPH over the speed limit the majority of the time. I know that I could have gotten more MPG if I drove at 55 MPH, but my time, sanity, comfort AND SAFETY are worth more to me than an extra 5 MPG!!! We passed some drivers that were crawling along at 55 MPH on the Interstate and while they might be getting better MPG, this is a safety hazard to themselves and others traveling on the Freeway that have to dodge around them!!!
 

rotarykid

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The majority of the car buying public "likes" good mileage, but doesn't purchase cars based solely on mileage. GM, VW or any other major manufacturer will likely NEVER build a car to cater specifically to this VERY small segment that value mileage above all other concerns and want micro cars, micro engines and stripped down lightweight appointments with said cars...

Especially for buyers coming from 15-20MPG SUVs and trucks and even those coming from 20-30MPG sedans getting 40+MPG is AMAZING and more than they could hope for.

I just drove back and forth to New York from Tennessee and I would say we averaged around 43-45MPG in our '06 (I didn't calculate it out yet) and I am more than happy with that MPG performance while I was driving 4-10 MPH over the speed limit the majority of the time. I know that I could have gotten more MPG if I drove at 55 MPH, but my time, sanity, comfort AND SAFETY are worth more to me than an extra 5 MPG!!! We passed some drivers that were crawling along at 55 MPH on the Interstate and while they might be getting better MPG, this is a safety hazard to themselves and others traveling on the Freeway that have to dodge around them!!!
Are you calling my A2 Jetta's micro cars?????? Are you calling a Polo Bluemotion wagon that is capable of 75+ mpgUS real world a mirco. The current Polo TDI sedan is in fact larger than my 85 or 91 Jettas.

I dispute your claim of there not being market for this kind of diesel powered car!!!
 

Chris Tobin

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Are you calling my A2 Jetta's micro cars?????? Are you calling a Polo Bluemotion wagon that is capable of 75+ mpgUS real world a mirco. The current Polo TDI sedan is in fact larger than my 85 or 91 Jettas.
I dispute your claim of there not being market for this kind of diesel powered car!!!
While your Jetta's may not fall in the Micro category like a Smart or one of the others in the current market they are certainly SMALL cars that are much smaller than current compact offerings are they not?

Also, I did not say there was not a market, I just said it was a VERY small segment that major manufacturers will not likely cater to, especially here in this country. Just look on this website, there are a ton of new Passat TDI owners and the new Jettas and Golfs are considerably larger than the older models... Even within the VW empire where a smaller car and engine combo is readily available elsewhere, VW has made the choice to NOT offer that vehicle here in this market.

If you want the ultimate in fuel mileage and low cost, get a scooter and call it a day!:D
 

TDI2000Zim

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While your Jetta's may not fall in the Micro category like a Smart or one of the others in the current market they are certainly SMALL cars that are much smaller than current compact offerings are they not?

Also, I did not say there was not a market, I just said it was a VERY small segment that major manufacturers will not likely cater to, especially here in this country. Just look on this website, there are a ton of new Passat TDI owners and the new Jettas and Golfs are considerably larger than the older models... Even within the VW empire where a smaller car and engine combo is readily available elsewhere, VW has made the choice to NOT offer that vehicle here in this market.

If you want the ultimate in fuel mileage and low cost, get a scooter and call it a day!:D
This looks a lot smaller than the Jetta MK2:


vs
 
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kjclow

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Just look on this website, there are a ton of new Passat TDI owners and the new Jettas and Golfs are considerably larger than the older models... Even within the VW empire where a smaller car and engine combo is readily available elsewhere, VW has made the choice to NOT offer that vehicle here in this market.
Yes, there are lots of owners of passat, new jettas, golfs, and sportswagen on this site, because that's all we are offered. Sure VW now ofers the beetle, but it's a golf underneath. Other manufactures offer small econo baoxes that seem to sell well enough. I agree with rotarykid, if anyone were to offer a diesel in an econobox platform, like the sonic or fit, it would sell like hotcakes.

To stay somewhat on topic, the cruze looks to be a decent competitor to the jetta sedan. Time will tell how good of homework GM did on the engine's capabilities for the North American market.
 
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