BRM Engine Noise ??

[eclipse086]

Can anyone identify this noise ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t_eQF5NH3g&feature=plcp

I recently replaced the cam, bearings lifters and oil pump and it ran and sounded great for over 2k miles. There are no warning lights or symptoms other than the noise, I have taken the valve cover off twice since this started and adjusted the injectors (it made no difference) and looked for anything that could be causing it(all looks good) as well as triple checked the timing. Also I have disconnected the accessory belt (still makes noise) and dissassembled and reassembled the duel pump(looked good). Listening to it with a stethoscope it appears to come from the under the valve cover and it more prominent on the right (duel pump) side. Any suggestions or anyone with a similar problem that fixed it would be greatly appreciated. I am so frustrated, am about to drive it until the noise stops (but that might not end well)

 

[cobra390t]

How many miles on this BRM /?

 

[donutman]

This noise sounds sort of like mine did when the flywheel went out. The DMF it is called. My noise was more prominent towards the belt area. Can't be real certain.

 

[eclipse086]

It has 170k on it, also it is a 5sp manual. never considered the clutch and I do believe it is original. The noise is not in time with the motor and it is not always there. Only noticed at idle.

 

[bcautosound]

Alternator pulley or probably dmf.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[sptsailing]

Dmf

Sounds like a DMF issue to me

 

[cobra390t]

Sounds like a DMF issue to me

eclipse086 got 5spd manual no DMF

 

[TonyJetta]

Sounds like a DMF issue to me

That was my thought too.

Yes, the DMF clutches on 5sp cars are known to fail. Some last 70k miles; others last 400k miles. It all depends on the driver and type of driving.

Most upgrade to a Single Mass Flywheel (SMF) and never have the DMF failure again! That is, until the clutch itself naturally ears out.

Tony

 

[dieselpony]

I'd take a close look at the alternator pulley (remove belt and see if it still freewheels one way, then catches the other way, like it's supposed to) and listen to the idler pulley. Those are cheaper / easier fixes if it's one of them.

But, after I changed out my DMF for an SMF, I'd have to say, if that's the problem, just convert to SMF and be done with it. You'll be glad you did. And it's relatively inexpensive if you can do it yourself.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

I actually started enjoying driving a stick again after I changed to SMF at 50K miles. The DMF, since new had just atrocious engagement..........

Do check your alternator pulley though. At 170K miles, it might be slipping or seized.

What you do is take off the serpentine belt, block the alternators internal fan with a screw driver and try to turn the pulley in both directions by hand. It should turn smoothly and freely in one direction and not at all in the other direction.

 

[eclipse086]

Definitely not a pulley, I pulled the accessory belt and it still makes the noise. What is the best way to test if its the DMF ? also if I continue to drive it what scenario do I likely face ?

 

[TonyJetta]

Let me preface my response as being focused on a DSG trans. I don't know if you have a 5sp or DSG Auto.

What is the best way to test if its the DMF ?

When the engine/trans is cold. i.e. sitting out all night. Mine made a scracthing noise when idling after sitting in the garage all night. Some describe it as marbles in a tin can. I suspect the scratching I heard on mine was a VERY early indicator of the DMF starting to fail.

Also, the noise is most evident on the drivers' side of the car, near the left front wheel.

...also if I continue to drive it what scenario do I likely face ?

The absolute worst case scenario is that the DMF lets go, it locks up the engine and trans. In doing so, you could be driving at 55mph and cause an accident. I have heard of and seen pictures of one DMF grenading and breaking out of the transmission bell housing.

It all depends on what the engine is doing when it fails.

Tony

 

[cobra390t]

Let me preface my response as being focused on a DSG trans. I don't know if you have a 5sp or DSG Auto.



When the engine/trans is cold. i.e. sitting out all night. Mine made a scracthing noise when idling after sitting in the garage all night. Some describe it as marbles in a tin can. I suspect the scratching I heard on mine was a VERY early indicator of the DMF starting to fail.

Also, the noise is most evident on the drivers' side of the car, near the left front wheel.



The absolute worst case scenario is that the DMF lets go, it locks up the engine and trans. In doing so, you could be driving at 55mph and cause an accident. I have heard of and seen pictures of one DMF grenading and breaking out of the transmission bell housing.

It all depends on what the engine is doing when it fails.

Tony

Is the 5 Speed Manual Trany Jetta also have DMF ???or only the DSG Trany ? sorry if my q sound stupid but am learning from all of you in this amazing forum ..

 

[TonyJetta]

Technically, they both have a DMF and have a very similar failure mode.

The DSG DMF usually fails around 100K miles. The jury is still out on how long the replacement lasts. I have 70k on mine; Others have many more miles.

The 5sp DMF failure mode is similar, but it can last 100K to 300K miles. In that case, it's dependent on the driver.

Tony

 

[MyAvocation]

OP, to reiterate what others stated, DMF is very likely to be the noise. The proper way to diagnose is listening from under the car, near driver's front tire. Removing the plastic skid plate (oxymoron) will amplify a DMF 'death rattle'.

The worse a DMF the easier it is to hear/feel. For instance, there's additional slop when engaging the clutch (basically the DMF springs are broken and dual mass tension is gone). If you're not familiar with how a good DMF feels, you may not notice the slop. In that case, go test drive another A5 PD MT. You can also do a search for more details.

 

[eclipse086]

It was indeed the DMF, finally had time to replace it a couple of weeks ago. Thank you for all the help. Now it has yet another problem already and does not want to start, but will start a new thread for it.

 

[JettaJack]

similar problem?

Technically, they both have a DMF and have a very similar failure mode.

The DSG DMF usually fails around 100K miles. The jury is still out on how long the replacement lasts. I have 70k on mine; Others have many more miles.

The 5sp DMF failure mode is similar, but it can last 100K to 300K miles. In that case, it's dependent on the driver.

Tony

Tony,
I am wonder about other symptoms of DMF failure, because just today I noticed that my 05.5 5sp is making an unusual noise (haven't had the chance to check it yet). What I have noticed is significant power loss @ about 2500 rpm.
I know I need to do the clutch as I am at ~140,000 mi on the original one. I'm just hoping that this IS related to this need and not another problem.
Been delaying the clutch because of $$ and distance to my repair guy.
Jack

 

[TonyJetta]

For the 5sp DMF failure, I have not personally experienced it. I have been told it sounds similar to the DSG DMF failure. Which, in my case was a scratching noise that could only be heard when I was near the left front tire, when the engine was cold. I have read that the noise ranged from the scratching noise all the way up to sounding like ball rattling in a tin can.

HTH

Tony

 

[eclipse086]

Mine almost sounded like a rod knock, but was not constant and would come and go and was not in time with the motor.

 

[Jester747]

The easiest way I've found to see if the rattling is from the DMF on a manual tranny is just that it rattles when idling in neutral and lessens/goes away when you press the clutch pedal, or rev beyond 1200rpm.

 

[maxxn88]

Interesting to find this. My tranny (5sp manual) has been making this sound too. I notice it the most when the car is in neutral and I let go of the clutch, it definitely sounds like a rattle and sounds similar to the video from the drivers side near the transmission. Did you just end up changing the flywheel (and I'm assuming the clutch at the same time)? My flywheel and clutch have about 100k miles on it. What actually fails on it?

 

[TonyJetta]

What actually fails on it?

On a DSG flywheel...There are springs isolating the dual mass that the clutch disc engages with. The springs eventually wear through the parent mass and eventually breach the flywheel, casing sudden engine lockup or bellhousing damage.

I am assuming a manual DMF is similar.

Tony