Best flywheel for a bhw swap?

[tims944]

Hey guys im contemplating upgrading my clutch flywheel setup to eliminate a little bit of vibrations and slippage in 5th and 6th at full boost hehe

currently run a 23lb 1.8t SMF, with a stage 2 PP(i think) and custom disk as its on my 944

anysudgestions?ive contemplated the 30lb whitbread smf.. but unsure whats really best option, /

i run a stage 2 ish setup, bv43, front mount, egr delete, and my car is substantially lighter than most passat audis.

probably 2700lb wet.. hits full boost pretty quick next to zero lag...

appreciate opinions, but im not looking to drop 2k on a clutch even 1k is too much...

 

[PickleRick]

The new witbread organic dual friction with north of 5k on it so far has been flawless. Zero complaints as a daily driver and trouble free break in. No slippage.


But I won't consider it perfect until it reaches 100k without slippage.

 

[Windex]

Darkside sourced 240mm Sachs SRE clutch with 300k km on it with no slip and next to no wear. Stg II on a Stock 240mm DMF. Needs EU starter and bellhousing spacer in the B5, not sure if either would be needed in your 944...

 

[PickleRick]

Darkside would have been my choice if it wasn't so blasted expensive.

 

[Windex]

Yup, fair enough. I bought it when the CAD$ and the UK pound were a little more favourable. Twas something I didn't want to have to mess around with or do twice.

Only issue so far is that the DMF started the typical rattle at 300k km, so I replaced it and re-used the clutch which was only about 15% worn.

So many 228mm tales of woe... slippage and busted synchros

 

[PickleRick]

For the price the southbend endurance treatment stock 1.8t valeo clutch on 228 smf 1.8t did well for 3 years and right at 100k. It was right at 750 for the purchase and treatment. It started slipping about 6 months before it got so bad I had to replace it, luckily I was due, errr ..over due for a timing belt so I knocked it all out at once.

Southbend no longer does the endurance treatment or at least the guy I spoke to said they didn't.

Which sucks because I have another valeo clutch kit sitting on the shelf ready to be sent off and with the treatment they used to offer a free flywheel turn.

I'll do cartwheels if my Whitbread 240mm with organic dual friction southbend set up lasts even 200k. That would put my vehicle at 490k approximately (miles not km).

Matt's set up came down in price with the south bend set up. With the clutch masters it was in the same price range as darkside. Had I known back then how crappy clutch masters was I'd have chosen darkside from the start.

I do like the feel of the new southbend set up. This is the only clutch I've had in this vehicle that I don't have to warn the guys at the tire shop about before handing them the keys. She's as smooth as a little sohc Honda Civic stock clutch.

 

[Windex]

That's one thing the darkside isn't. Take up can be a little choppy at low revs. Raise the rpm and its fine. Pedal effort is higher than stock but not crazy.
Perfectly drivable though.

 

[d0u8l3m]

Matts Flywheel hands down is the go to for these engines IMO
RS4 Clutch : LuK 624303300 (if you cant use your custom one, this also needs a bellhousing spacer)
Just over $700

 

[tims944]

Matts flywheel says it doesnt need a spacer non?
im technically using a modified b5 2.8 bellhousing.. i would have to do a lot of mods if i need to add the spacer because space...

my current setup is butter smooth no chatter but not up to the task
which PP would i pair with it though?

 

[d0u8l3m]

That LuK number is a full clutch kit with the PP and throw-out bearing. It might fit with a different PP without the spacer but that PP is self adjusting and I needed the spacer to use with a stock DUK, no clue about the 2.8 housing

 

[tims944]

Curious to hear any input from others about spacer or not, if i can find a clutch kit to fit matts 30lber and not need spacer would be awesome !

 

[PickleRick]

I'm using the dvz 2.8t v6 transmission from a 99 Passat in my 05 TDI.

I'm using Matt's flywheel and used the stock 1.8t smf flywheel with no spacer. Using stock 1.8t tob and stock bhw starter. Been running since 2018 with no issues and no spacers.


My bell isn't modified if that helps your spacer question

 

[tims944]

I'm using the dvz 2.8t v6 transmission from a 99 Passat in my 05 TDI.

I'm using Matt's flywheel and used the stock 1.8t smf flywheel with no spacer. Using stock 1.8t tob and stock bhw starter. Been running since 2018 with no issues and no spacers.


My bell isn't modified if that helps your spacer question

which clutch and Pp you using rick? thats good news, i actually cut up a DVZ to make it haha, the dvz wasnt from a turbo 2.7 though just regular na2.8 v6

 

[PickleRick]

I've used 3 different clutch and pressure plate set ups. First was Matt's 240 smf flywheel with the clutch masters fx300 set up. (Stock for 5 and 6 speed converted bhw Passats)


Next was an off the shelf valeo 1.8t smf b5/b5.5 Passat 1.8t clutch kit 228mm.


Current is Matt's 240 set up with the south bend clutch kit, again designed specifically for the 5 speed converted diesel Passat.

The DVz trans is identical on the outside case/clutch/fork/tob/pressure plate to all the duk and other imported diesel transmission these guys are using for their TDI conversions, just turns 3000 rpms between 75 and 80 mph.

 

[tims944]

I've used 3 different clutch and pressure plate set ups. First was Matt's 240 smf flywheel with the clutch masters fx300 set up. (Stock for 5 and 6 speed converted bhw Passats)


Next was an off the shelf valeo 1.8t smf b5/b5.5 Passat 1.8t clutch kit 228mm.


Current is Matt's 240 set up with the south bend clutch kit, again designed specifically for the 5 speed converted diesel Passat.

The DVz trans is identical on the outside case/clutch/fork/tob/pressure plate to all the duk and other imported diesel transmission these guys are using for their TDI conversions, just turns 3000 rpms between 75 and 80 mph.

i contacted matt and southbend to see if they can customize one of their disks for the right hub, would be nice to have a kit designed as 1 vs mixmatching parts and hoping for the best.

still 850 usd yeeesh thats 50% of my entire build hah...

 

[PickleRick]

What is different about your clutch hub? The v6 dvz trans has the same input shaft spline/size as your 1.8t 5 speed and all the imported diesel 5 speed transmissions. All the transmissions bolt up identically, some just rev way more than others. Some early 1.8t transmissions had smaller hubs for the CV axles but other than that they all bolt the same

 

[tims944]

well first off, my 944 has a Torque tube, so my 01x trans is at the back end of the car, its a 25.4mm shaft with 23 spline no where near same as the vw stuff. the bellhousing only houses the clutch setup nothing else.

 

[PickleRick]

Ok. Yeah that might cause an issue with stock fitment 1

 

[tims944]

talked with matt and he contacted Southbend, apparently there able to customize the disk for me, so that might be the way to go... will trial it maybe get a few things sorted before dropping 1k+ on a clutch setup yikes..

 

[bbob203]

talked with matt and he contacted Southbend, apparently there able to customize the disk for me, so that might be the way to go... will trial it maybe get a few things sorted before dropping 1k+ on a clutch setup yikes..

if you’re gonna spend that get an SRE.

 

[tims944]

if you’re gonna spend that get an SRE.

from what i understand the SRE will require spacer for the bellhousing(not a simple add on for me) and the clutch/pedal feel wont be same... also my disk will be custom so i cant just use an off the shelf clutch disk, well i can but not a stock audi/vw one...

matt is able to swap the hub for me no extra charge...

 

[tims944]

Has anyone used or tried this setup?

i assume its a 228/225 disk but why not?.... or is this basically just the gasser one sold as diesel...

Sachs DMF and SRE Clutch Kit for VW Passat / Audi A4 1.9 TDI 5 Speed

Sachs Dual Mass Flywheel and SRE Performance Clutch Kit for Audi A4 / Audi A6 / VW Passat / Skoda Superb 1.9 TDI 5 Speed Manual

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

im just trying to find a feasible alternative that will actually do some good overall vs dropping 1k on a paperweight...

the 240 luk kit w/sre is interesting i would have to inquire to my local clutch shop(once and if purchased)if they could swap the hub for what i need through.

 

[PickleRick]

I'm well over 5000 miles on Matt's kit and still as easy to engage as a stock clutch and no slippage when I have to hammer it to merge on the highway.

 

[MEgearhead]

I believe I have that SRE clutch. Darkside doesn't seem to give the Sachs part numbers, but I'll look up what I have and post it here. I got it from Frans at around the same cost. It's not the gasser clutch. The DMF is a standard diesel Sachs, but the PP and disk are diesel specific SRE parts. Since I've only put around 5K on it I really can't speak to it's endurance. However, it has not slipped yet with a stage II tune even WOT in 3rd. Unfortunately the turbo blew so it hasn't been driven much lately. It will get tested out in the near future as soon as we get a custom tune for the GT1756 and 260 cam we just installed. The clutch engages very nice with no noise, vibration or chatter either during engagement, in gear, or in neutral. The pedal force might be a little heavier but I don't have any experience with VW clutches other than a friend's '16 Golf R. He has the TTRS upgrade and it's lighter force than ours. It doesn't seem to be too much to me, but I'm more accustomed to older leg-press mechanical truck clutches.

 

[tims944]

I believe I have that SRE clutch. Darkside doesn't seem to give the Sachs part numbers, but I'll look up what I have and post it here. I got it from Frans at around the same cost. It's not the gasser clutch. The DMF is a standard diesel Sachs, but the PP and disk are diesel specific SRE parts. Since I've only put around 5K on it I really can't speak to it's endurance. However, it has not slipped yet with a stage II tune even WOT in 3rd. Unfortunately the turbo blew so it hasn't been driven much lately. It will get tested out in the near future as soon as we get a custom tune for the GT1756 and 260 cam we just installed. The clutch engages very nice with no noise, vibration or chatter either during engagement, in gear, or in neutral. The pedal force might be a little heavier but I don't have any experience with VW clutches other than a friend's '16 Golf R. He has the TTRS upgrade and it's lighter force than ours. It doesn't seem to be too much to me, but I'm more accustomed to older leg-press mechanical truck clutches.

thanks thats good to know.. im still on the fence about spending the 1k for a clutch... like ayayey my whole build is maybe 3-4k... MAX.. like suspensions brakes everything hah..
im curious if my current clutch will get durastically worse or kind of manage. 1,2,3,4 i have never had it slip, but 5th and 6th anything close from 1800-2400 window at more than 50% throttle itll slip for a bit than grab
probably understandable from 28psi of boost and next to zero lag. the car is light...
id rather have the clutch slip than be spinning tires in 5th or 6th ha..

 

[MEgearhead]

As promised, here are the numbers for the 228mm SRE clutch. It's part of Sachs Performance line. 999715.999961 clutch, 883082.999715 pressure plate and 2294.000.453 DMF.