ALH turbo upgrade question

[wauwau]

Hi everyone!

First i wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who is involved in this awesome community. This forum helped me a lot in the past.

At the moment i'm driving aNew Beetle with the ALH engine. It is the old ALH engine(car is from 97 or 98) with the banjo bolt on the turbo oil return line.
The engine has bigger 0.216 nozzles, a GT1749VA, ASZ intake, & spped gearbox and a remap. Currently i can switch between 2 mappings with VCDS and the power output prediction of my tuner should be around 150 and 180hp.
Since my turbo isn't in good shape anymore i'm thinking of buying a 1752 hybrid turbo. My tuner said, i could just fit the turbo without remapping the car and everything should be fine, except that i don't get a power increase without remapping.

My question is, should i go for the old GT1752 or the new GTD1752VRK?

Thanks alot.

 

[adamss24]

Best to leave hybrids alone, they work but some are difficult to map and some they just too lagy and increase EGT behind safe limits. A gtd 1752vrk is a ball bearing turbo and the gtb1756vk turbo is a conventional journal turbo. Both are far from plug and play however the gtb1756vk is easier to convert to vacuum and fit with an adapter plate from Darkside developments...the vrk needs welding onto a stock transverse manifold so its up to the supplier to make it as close to plug-and-play as possible for you ! As for spool time, both turbo will work well but the response will be unsatisfactory (boost will be limited) unless mapped up to the spec of the car...probably the vrk will feel as good as the VA turbo...

 

[wauwau]

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry, i just got the turbo naming wrong in my original post i meant the old GT1752 hybrid or the newer GTD1752vrk. The GT1752 should be plug and play. I could get my hands on a GTD1752 which is already converted to vacuum and has the exhaust manifold welded to the turbo. So, i just have to modify my downpipe and the piping to adapt to the turbo outlet i think.

Shouldn't i get lower EGT's using a 1752 instead of the 1749? And shouldn't the GTD spool better than the 1752 hybrid and the 1749?

 

[pkhoury]

I'm interested in this same thread, as I've also contemplated upgrading my VNT17 (and moving to another car) to maybe an 1856.

 

[Judson]

So I got this done last year. The ball bearing turbo inlet will be on the passenger side, so you have to rework the intake. The downpipe has to be welded onto the turbo - no one in my town would do that so I had to get a place in fort collins that restores old cars to do it. Malone did the tune. I got my turbo from the gottuned.com

Despite the extra money the turbo spools as well or better than stock and will push 28psi. This is on an engine with 250k miles. I also have a pd150 intake and a eurojet smic along with an 11mm pump. So ymmv.

 

[wauwau]

Thanks @Judson for the info.

And what about a 1852 hybrid?

 

[Judson]

Thanks @Judson for the info.

And what about a 1852 hybrid?

unfortunately I have no idea. But the gottuned people will be able to tell you if welding is needed and if air intake needs to be modified.

 

[wauwau]

I think i'm going to buy a gtd1752, welding wouldn't be a problem and i need the intake on the passenger side, so no problem here.

 

[Judson]

Well the gtd1752vrk is a great turbo, I must say. It’s like updating your car to 2020 standards. No loss in mpg unless you have a heavy foot.

somewhere in one of these threads someone asked me how my DMF is working. It’s great: smoother and much quieter than a SMF. Max torque is around 325 ft. lbs. so make sure your tuner knows this and limits torque at low RPMs.

 

[wauwau]

Thanks for the info, my curent tune should have something around 280ft-lbs and 250ft-lbs. I haven't dynoed the car yet, so i can not say for sure. My 'low boost' mapping is nearly smoke free, and the 'high-boost' mapping has a bit of smoke. I'm hoping to use the stronger mapping in the future without much smoke. If the turbo pulls to strong i'm going for a remap or maybe it's time to understand mapping and do it on my own.

I'm also using DMF, but i switched to the 6speed gearbox with the bigger clutch. I also have a complete SMF kit lying around.

I'll order the turbo in the next few weeks and see how it performs

 

[Judson]

Oh you’ll have fun for sure! I have a 6 speed as well. Probably the same clutch as mine so you can handle more torque without a problem.

 

[wauwau]

I'll hope so. Must be the same clutch.

Could you share some info, when the turbo starts to spool and how much boost it produces below 2000rpm?

 

[Judson]

Can’t give you precise numbers. It produces boost off idle. Whatever you think the vnt15 (stock) turbo does this one does the same but can do more boost. If I remember correctly it has produced 28psi in 4th gear starting around 2600 RPMs. I have a boost gauge mounted on my a pillar.

i don’t give her full throttle off idle - not recommended unless you want to spin your tires.
Will you have an LSD?

 

[wauwau]

I didn't even know that an LSD is available for these 'old' cars. Maybe i'll put this on the list of nice things to have, once the turbo upgrade has been done. At the moment i'm getting all the nedded parts for my brake upgrade of the Beetle.

Next month i know if i need an LSD

But first i need to get a better SMIC i think...

 

[pkhoury]

I didn't even know that an LSD is available for these 'old' cars. Maybe i'll put this on the list of nice things to have, once the turbo upgrade has been done. At the moment i'm getting all the nedded parts for my brake upgrade of the Beetle.

Next month i know if i need an LSD

But first i need to get a better SMIC i think...

LSDs are FUN! I have one on both my 2002 Golf and my 2013 JSW. Peloquin for both, and the guy who makes them is full of knowledge (but getting up there in age). I know some people also like Wavetrac and I think there's one other brand as well.

Brake upgrade - like VR6 brakes?

 

[Judson]

Agreed. LSDs for the 6 speed are available and if you can swing it, get it installed before you put in the transmission to save yourself having to pull it back out again.
The boost pipe from the turbo to the intercooler will need some fiddling - I forget the issue but I believe it’s a slightly different length. Use ring clamps, big beefy ones especially onto the turbo or you’ll end up blowing the hose off.
If you can keep your foot out of the floor for extended periods the stock intercooler will be okay until the summer months. I am using a Eurojet with a vented wheel well liner.
For brakes you can browse the vwvortex classifieds for a set of GLI brakes but again unless you are autocrossing or driving really fast all the time they are less a need than a want for the time being. I should say - be careful as these calipers are over 20 years now. I ended up getting factory res painted calipers all around. The old set I got was worthless. Dealer prices are surprisingly reasonable however.
Finally depending on emissions in your state a different intake is nice.
Forgot to ask, what injectors are you running and are they balanced? Have you checked their balance in VCDS?

 

[PakProtector]

The GTD1752VRK from Gottuned just needs a V-Band interface applied to the downpipe. Helps if you've already got a 2.5-incher there. Been drooling over this for some time now... For an 11mm-ed ALH.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[wauwau]

I'm doing nothing special to the brakes, just 312mm discs at the front and 256mm at the back. But i will be using the ATE 57(Passat, Audi A6) calipers instead the ATE 54 from the Golf.

I'don't know which injectors i use, i think they are from Bosch, their size is 0.216. I couldn't see anything wrong with VCDS. I couldn't modify the exhaust, all thi stuff is illegal in Germany, but a modified exhaust would be too much. And i had to revert it back to stock every two years to pass the technical inspections and the emmisions test.

For the intercooler i need to ask some workshops if they could modify a intercooler from the Golf to fit the Beetle. I think the only intercooler that fits is from Tyrolsport and it is way too expensive i think.

 

[Judson]

Germany? Cool. .216s are what I’m running. Should work fine.
With the stock intake and exhaust you may lose a little at the top end. Don’t really know but if you have to pass emissions, well, so be it and not worth worrying about.

 

[wauwau]

I'm using the ASZ/ARL intake. I'm not the high rev person, it's still a diesel with some extra power. When i think about it, the 90hp the ALH engine would be enough for most of my driving, but it's good to know that pushing the throttle a little bit more can put a smile on your face

 

[cuban11182]

I know this may not help as my setup is in a CJ7, but I have a GTD1756VRK, .260 injectors, and a Tekmektronics tune and I'm @ 30 PSI NLT 2050 RPMs if I hit it w/ 100% throttle once off the clutch. I've owned a Jetta in the past with a GT1752 (VNT17) with .230 injectors and there's no comparison to how fast this turbo spools.

The motor is built, by me, with stock intake plenum. I run a Holley Black lift pump (140GPH) to supplement my fueling needs. Overall it's a great little setup and makes more power than the stroker motor that was in it before. Prior to changing out my tires (30 to 33s) I got 34MPG @ 60 mph on country roads here in NC (albeit I'm basically at sea level).

 

[wauwau]

Before i install the GTD1752, i've got one question. Should i use a restrictor on the oil feed line? I couldn't find an answer to this question. Some say the restrictor is nedded, when oil oressure goes above 55psi at high rpms other say to use the stock ALH feed line without any restrictor.

So, i don't want to destroy the turbo with too much or too less oil

 

[Judson]

Huh. Well I’ve never even heard of putting in a restrictor. I certainly don’t have one….

 

[wauwau]

Thanks for your reply...here's what Garret says: https://www.garrettmotion.com/knowl...295900&utm_medium=Organic&utm_source=facebook.

Since i haven't senn the turbo yet, i'm not sure what to do, i think i'll go with the standard ALH oil feed line.

 

[wauwau]

Just installed the turbo a few days ago. What a nice upgrade the car feels and runs much smoother than with the old GT1749VA.

Installation was not hard, only i had to remove one of the screws which holds the inlet pipe in place to push it more to the side to give some room for the silicon pipe adapter.

About the feed line reducer...it is not necessary the inlet hole of the turbo is much smaller than the one one of the feed line.

Couldn't test the full potential if the turbo, because i haven't installed my PD150 head bolts yet.

First drive was afwul, nearly no boost and alot of smoke, it got a bit better after a few minutes. After turning off the car my Relais109 was dead. After repkacing the relay everything was fine.

 

[adamss24]

How unfortunate ! Now get some 0.260 nozzles in there and have the Ecu tuned for the extra boost and fuel you can get into the engine !
The pd head bolts need chopping down and the washers drilled to fit on the new bolts. Use ARL tightening torque settings…

 

[Andyinchville1]

So I got this done last year. The ball bearing turbo inlet will be on the passenger side, so you have to rework the intake. The downpipe has to be welded onto the turbo - no one in my town would do that so I had to get a place in fort collins that restores old cars to do it. Malone did the tune. I got my turbo from the gottuned.com

Despite the extra money the turbo spools as well or better than stock and will push 28psi. This is on an engine with 250k miles. I also have a pd150 intake and a eurojet smic along with an 11mm pump. So ymmv.

HI,

Just curious but if driven in a similar manner ....any mpg differences before and after?

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Judson]

No mpg difference at all. I don’t drive any differently.

btw my issue with the boost hose blowing off was that the custom metal pipe was a bit too short so the 3” hose was insufficient. I bought an 8” red one off of amazon and cut it down to fit and use some permatex ultra red. Fixed.

 

[wauwau]

How unfortunate ! Now get some 0.260 nozzles in there and have the Ecu tuned for the extra boost and fuel you can get into the engine !
The pd head bolts need chopping down and the washers drilled to fit on the new bolts. Use ARL tightening torque settings…

Could be hard to pass the emissions test with these noozles....

 

[adamss24]

Not at all ! You just reduce the IQ in the software !