ALH Shut down on the off ramp intermittent

[eddieleephd]

So a few times now my ALH has randomly shut down on the off ramp.
I replaced the crank sensor as this is the only thing I can think might cause this issue.

This has happened 4 times now and last time it lasted the longest. I had to crank it a few times before it would start again.

After it's warmed up and been running a while on the highway. I get off the exit and throw it in neutral then, a few seconds later, see the tach is at 0rpm. No buzzer, lights, chime, nothing...
Only thing I have read to be possible is crank sensor.
First couple times I put it in gear and it resumed running. Next time it lasted a little longer but I never came to a stop.
Last time, well that's written above.

Any ideas other than crank sensor?

 

[KLXD]

Happen every time?

Fuel level make any difference?

 

[STDOUBT]

No buzzer, lights, chime, nothing...
What about stored codes?
Any electrical drop out during this?
Just as an aside, coasting in neutral is something I used to do thinking I was saving my gearbox, then I learned (late) that coasting down in gear shuts off fueling during the period you're completely off the throttle. Not that this should have anything to do with the problem you're having. :subscribed:
EDIT: First couple times I put it in gear and it resumed running. This has got to be a major clue.

 

[csstevej]

I just gotta ask........what color is your 109 relay.
I had this exact problem years ago. I would come and go , it would shut down while coasting it took a week to find the issue. That really was black. Switched to a grey one no issues......

Have you hooked up Vcds to see if any codes are there?

 

[Tdijarhead]

I agree with Steve check/change out the 109

 

[eddieleephd]

Doesn't happen every time, it's rather infrequent.
I don't seem to have any electrical drop, or other issues.
109 relay is grey and about a year old.

Hook the VAG-COM up and no codes. I didn't do this until a little while later so the codes could have cleared. Unfortunately I don't carry the laptop in the car unless I think I need it.

I'm really hoping it was the crank sensor and it doesn't happen again...

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[WildChild80]

Are you scanning all modules or just the engine for stored codes?

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[eddieleephd]

Scanned all the modules, scanned the engine first, then ran a full scan.


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[Vince Waldon]

Oh, so it hasn't happened again since you replaced the crank sensor?

 

[eddieleephd]

No, just getting ready to cross the country and want to be prepared. I replaced the crank sensor two days ago and had replaced the ECU this spring as I had an intermittent no start issue caused by that.

I'm really just trying to figure out what else could cause it.

I plan to have my spare 109. I just replaced the power reduction relay and fan relay trying to solve a drain on the battery that ended up being the battery, even though I had it tested, and they said it was good. No problems since other than this.



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[WildChild80]

You don't really need a spare 109...a jumper wire is cheaper and does the same thing except the auto on and off...
And where are you traveling to? If you're anywhere near SW Arkansas I could help if needed
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[eddieleephd]

You don't really need a spare 109...a jumper wire is cheaper and does the same thing except the auto on and off...
And where are you traveling to? If you're anywhere near SW Arkansas I could help if needed
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Thank you for the offer.
I'm in North Carolina and I am going to California. Unfortunately I don't have the power of making the unexpected happen in desired places..
I have a spare 109 as I have a spare load reduction relay, the load reduction can be used for other places also.


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[WildChild80]

Thank you for the offer.
I'm in North Carolina and I am going to California. Unfortunately I don't have the power of making the unexpected happen in desired places..
I have a spare 109 as I have a spare load reduction relay, the load reduction can be used for other places also.


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Are you running 40 or 20 across mid America

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[eddieleephd]

Are you running 40 or 20 across mid America

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Running 40, I'm in Asheville, NC so I'm on it already.
Hopefully it will be uneventful...

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[eddieleephd]

EDIT: First couple times I put it in gear and it resumed running. This has got to be a major clue.

I'm hoping that the signal was strengthened when I stuck it into gear and the frequency picked back up.
It's called an impulser by VW engineers. Reality is that it's a small alternator that creates a low voltage AC current and it's frequency is the RPM.

Just wanted to get other thoughts of what could have caused the issue so I can possibly be prepared for it.


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[Vince Waldon]

Ah, OK, I understood the story to be that it was still happening *after* you replaced your crank sensor.

If you've got a good crank sensor and a back-up in mind for your 109 you're probably eliminated 99.9% of the causes of a sudden out-off-nowhere shutoff. The remaining .1% being timing belt or no fuel in the tank.

 

[eddieleephd]

Ah, OK, I understood the story to be that it was still happening *after* you replaced your crank sensor.

If you've got a good crank sensor and a back-up in mind for your 109 you're probably eliminated 99.9% of the causes of a sudden out-off-nowhere shutoff. The remaining .1% being timing belt or no fuel in the tank.

I'm hoping, there always seems to be the rare occasion that something else is possibly the culprit.

I already had the rare ECU death and now it seems the rare crank sensor death at 330,000, so I replaced it thinking, either way it lived long enough.

Just installed new injectors and had to adjust the timing and do the hammer mod to get it set right. Hopefully there's not much left to cause issues...

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[JB05]

Where did you buy the new crank sensor? I got mine from idparts, and I've had no more stalling problems with my BEW. There was no Bosch logo on the new sensor which concerned me at the time; two years ago.

 

[csstevej]

The 2000 beetle I’ve been putting back together all of a sudden developed a no start issue......sometimes would fire up then immediately die......figured it was fuel related......no codes .
I was finally able to get it started by pumping the accelerator pedal and lo and behold it fired up......only to die when I released the throttle......if I kept the rpms up above 1400 it was fine, and when the car was warm it’s as if nothing was wrong.
I could shut it off and it would start right back up.

I was stumped till I finally got a code pointing to the CPS...... replaced it and all was well.
After careful inspection of the old CPS harness I found a spot that had rubbed through against the oil filter housing as it runs under neath it.

Have you inspected your old harness, or after the connection point for any chafes?

 

[eddieleephd]

Where did you buy the new crank sensor? I got mine from idparts, and I've had no more stalling problems with my BEW. There was no Bosch logo on the new sensor which concerned me at the time; two years ago.

I got it from a Good little local parts house I like to support and it was an OEM sensor for about the same id sells them for.


Csstevej, you're one of a few that I have read about recently having issues related to the crank sensor, that's largelywhy I suspected it.


Figure it's old enough to be tired and worth replacing

 

[jayb79]

I had a similar shutting down issue a few years ago and it turned out to be that I had reversed the return and supply lines at the fuel filter when I last changed it. It had been that way for weeks before it became a problem.

 

[Curious Chris]

Relay 109 failures store no code just turns off power to the ECM, Injection pump and some other stuff. Even new ones get flaky. Research here found that a supplier had cold solder joints that come open with heat, then when it cools off it acts like nothing has happened. I had the OEM that came with the car fail and a new replacement fail too.

 

[eddieleephd]

Thanks guys, all my worries about this and I lost 5th gear on my way it of town. Just ordered a used one for less than the 5th gear parts to replace so time to swap transmissions.
Haven't got it to stall out since replacing the crank sensor though.

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[WildChild80]

Thanks guys, all my worries about this and I lost 5th gear on my way it of town. Just ordered a used one for less than the 5th gear parts to replace so time to swap transmissions.
Haven't got it to stall out since replacing the crank sensor though.

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I hate to hear that...and right before Christmas to boot...

I think I'm going to start planning the 5th gear oiling mod, 5th gears are starting to fail far too often...I've got a spare transmission but doesn't mean I want to use it. When I see big parts like that in the salvage yard I try to grab them so I can more easily keep my ALH fleet going and for the unexpected rainy day...

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[csstevej]

Wildchild, what’s the 5th gear oiling mod?

 

[Tdijarhead]

You drill a couple of holes in your transmission.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3087033

I’ve thought about doing this but haven’t yet.