advice on gt2559v

[eliasuk98]

hi guys, after having a failed installation of a my old garrett t3 turbo on my audi A4 1.9 tdi 130PD and realised the lag was just silly, thanks to you guys advicing me ive now ditched the turbo and got hold of a gt2559v.

i Have a few questions,

1. i didnt get oil return and feed pipes, will there be easy to make as i went to renult dealers and they want almost £250 for the two.

2. will this turbo need water cooling or is it purely to aid heating the water system in the car itself? and if i do need the water cooling any advice for best place to feed the water?

3. being a large turbo will i need to support it with any extra brackets of some kind or will it be sufficent to hang of the original manifold?

your help will be greatly appreciated

 

[Diesel_Benz]

2. Its to cool the turbo.

3. Being a large turbo it will be laggy like your T3, just slightly less so. From the data posted here, the 59mm compressor is not a good match to the TDI engines.

 

[Rub87]

why isn't a 59mm a good math for 1.9? If it has a small inducer I think it will be just fine..

 

[mojogoes]

Its on a par with what i have and its ok.

 

[TDIfreak]

The biggest problem is that the GT2559v will never fit in there with the original exhaust manifold. Engine support is too close in the longitudinal engine.

 

[Rub87]

make a manifold, if you remove airbox you can fit everything there.. or make a top mount manifold..

 

[eliasuk98]

thanks guys, i've removed the airbox, and theres plenty of room for fitting the turbo, its gona require a bit of engineering to get it to work structurally without ripping the manifold of, its doeble..

started getting worried with comments about lag, i thought i did my research and based on advice given by memebers on this forum the GT2559v is a good choice...

any ideas on making a oil return and feed connection without having to by the original ones from renult dealers?

and water cooling isnt necessarry right?

 

[hatemi]

There are so many different versions of that turbo its impossible to tell how laggy it will be without further info.

If its GT2256V from Vw LT van that is often stated as gt2556v it will spool just too fast. Very good turbo for a 200-230hp car.

 

[Rub87]

thanks guys, i've removed the airbox, and theres plenty of room for fitting the turbo, its gona require a bit of engineering to get it to work structurally without ripping the manifold of, its doeble..

started getting worried with comments about lag, i thought i did my research and based on advice given by memebers on this forum the GT2559v is a good choice...

any ideas on making a oil return and feed connection without having to by the original ones from renult dealers?

and water cooling isnt necessarry right?

You can have made yourself nice stainless braided lines at a hydrualic shop thing, and it's quite inexpensive, for the return you can take an old vw return line, cut the thing at the ends of the flex section so you can remove the flex part, then use some oil and high temp resitant hose on it to go from the turbo to the engine block.. works great

 

[hatemi]

1/2" ID silicone hose works fine as the return line. Just make sure it can go downstream all the way and there are no too tight bends.

 

[TDIfreak]

There are so many different versions of that turbo its impossible to tell how laggy it will be without further info.

If its GT2256V from Vw LT van that is often stated as gt2556v it will spool just too fast. Very good turbo for a 200-230hp car.

He's talking about Renault dealer... the 2559V used in Renault/Opel/Saab 3.0 V6 engine is not the best for 1.9 liter engine. Compresswor wheel is not the best for small flow/big boost. I'd sell the turbo since it costs over 2000 euros as new and get better turbo for the 1.9. Like the VW 2256V.

 

[mufti sahib]

t3

hi,
i was going to mention that you can try the t3 but from past experience with cosworths and rs turbos they do work well. but sceptical using it on a tdi, i have to take my hat off to you for trying. good work mate! i hope you got someone helping you because its hard work.

fatwa no.1

 

[mojogoes]

He's talking about Renault dealer... the 2559V used in Renault/Opel/Saab 3.0 V6 engine is not the best for 1.9 liter engine. Compresswor wheel is not the best for small flow/big boost. I'd sell the turbo since it costs over 2000 euros as new and get better turbo for the 1.9. Like the VW 2256V.

True better suited to the 2.5L tdi......

 

[mufti sahib]

i think the gt2559v is a good choice because the pd engine is limited by the turbo unit and is the only component, besides the injectors.as you all know the internel combustion engine is a pump in reality, so going by that principle the quicker you can get air in and out=more power.


fatwa no.2

 

[hatemi]

If it cant produce preasure efficiently enought then its a poor match for 1.9. 8v head has its limitations and you cant overcome those with just good exhaust side flow. This why the turbo selection is crutial to the end result. My 2256v hybrid kicked the arse of my previous gt2259v(from mb cdi engine) big time. With the MB unit 1.5bar was absolute maximum since after that the EMP would just go through the roof. With the hybrid I got 1.9bar EMP with 1.9bar boost @5k

 

[StingrayRT]

If it cant produce preasure efficiently enought then its a poor match for 1.9. 8v head has its limitations and you cant overcome those with just good exhaust side flow. This why the turbo selection is crutial to the end result. My 2256v hybrid kicked the arse of my previous gt2259v(from mb cdi engine) big time. With the MB unit 1.5bar was absolute maximum since after that the EMP would just go through the roof. With the hybrid I got 1.9bar EMP with 1.9bar boost @5k

I use GT2559V with compressor modification - surge port, max. boost 3.2bar, max EGT 820°C - still too cold, properly designed turbo manifold with stepped runner design 421.......EMP still under control 60% lower than MAP just 40% at accelerations and full power....

 

[Rub87]

If it cant produce preasure efficiently enought then its a poor match for 1.9. 8v head has its limitations and you cant overcome those with just good exhaust side flow. This why the turbo selection is crutial to the end result. My 2256v hybrid kicked the arse of my previous gt2259v(from mb cdi engine) big time. With the MB unit 1.5bar was absolute maximum since after that the EMP would just go through the roof. With the hybrid I got 1.9bar EMP with 1.9bar boost @5k

Do you have some specs about the wheels?

 

[mufti sahib]

If it cant produce preasure efficiently enought then its a poor match for 1.9. 8v head has its limitations and you cant overcome those with just good exhaust side flow. This why the turbo selection is crutial to the end result. My 2256v hybrid kicked the arse of my previous gt2259v(from mb cdi engine) big time. With the MB unit 1.5bar was absolute maximum since after that the EMP would just go through the roof. With the hybrid I got 1.9bar EMP with 1.9bar boost @5k

hi,

if what your saying is true can you explain why the pd engine comes with two different size turbo units on the same engines?

my verdict on this is the pd engine is capable of more power then set as lean by the manufacturer the reason for this is, emissions laws that vary between countries.

fatwa no.3

 

[hatemi]

hi,

if what your saying is true can you explain why the pd engine comes with two different size turbo units on the same engines?

my verdict on this is the pd engine is capable of more power then set as lean by the manufacturer the reason for this is, emissions laws that vary between countries.

fatwa no.3

What PD engine are you refering to? 130/150hp or 140/170hp 16v. The 130 and 150hp engines are very much the same. There are some minor differences but in general the base engine is the same. Thing that makes those different is the turbo and tuning they came with from the factory. Both can be tuned past 200hp with just a turbo upgrade.

 

[mojogoes]

Quote...
my verdict on this is the pd engine is capable of more power then set as lean by the manufacturer the reason for this is, emissions laws that vary between countries.

fatwa no.3

This is true......all diesel engines and petrol engines for that matter have to comply to which ever emissions regulation level.......and most engines are de-tuned by around 20%/30% which can be addressed by a stage 1 remap.

Which ever turbo is implemented will have the deciding factor to how much fuel you will be able to inject and to the final power output.......

 

[eliasuk98]

Mojogoes, on my last post on the topic of the garrett t3 you wrote

"When moving to a larger turbo yes there will be a certain amount of lag but if you went with either the Gt2052 or Gt2056 or better still a Gt2259v which are all vnt's units like your oem unit , plus a good remap plus some race injectors and other mods like a 2.5' 3' dp/exhaust and modified inlet and exhaust/turbo monifolds/adapter etc...........you will see very good gains

its was based on this advice and other research that i came to the conclusion that lag will be eliminated due to the flap technology of the gt series turbos and the gt2559v would be a good choice.. im not sure where the argument of lag in comparision to the old t3 has come from... the principle of using a large or massive turbo has been a common factor to huge bhp gains on normal 2.0l petrol cars, as Mojogoes states, as long as your able to compensate with the right amount of fuel the car should go well.. on that note, Hatemi, manufactures dont have the need to put large turbos on small engines, but when more power is needed they would so in the case of the 150bhp pd engines they opted for a bigger turbo.. using that principle going bigger doesnt mean it cant be done with a 1.9 pd successfully..wahdih

 

[mufti sahib]

Finally people have realised that you can put a larger turbo on the 1.9 pd 130-150 bhp. as long as you have the vehicle custom map to suit your components you should have wadih power around 250 bhp.

fatwa no.4

 

[hatemi]

Actually manufacturers seem to be putting smaler turbos in new cars nowdays. And guess whats the reason.... Emissions.

Tuning a TDI has some basic principles that are common to tuning a gas engine, but it has its own limitations and advantages too. slapping a large ass hell turbo in there dosnt necacarely lead to good results. I'm not saying you shouldnt get a larger turbo. actually I recomend everyone to do so. I'm just saying that there is no point in using a turbo that cant give what we need. And thats PR of 3.5+ with flow of 35-45lbs/min and with good response

 

[Rub87]

So we want a comp wheel with 59mm exducer (maybe can be reduced a bit if it's custom) and smallest inducer available? Or just go for 56mm?

 

[hatemi]

I'm pretty sure my compressor was made from 60mm BMW wheel and machined to 56mm exducer.

 

[Rub87]

Is inducer also reduced or not? I would think if inducer is too big and a normal sized diffuser width it would surge pretty soon at low flow #'s..?

 

[hatemi]

I'm not 100% sure but I would think the inducer was left as it was.

 

[TDIfreak]

Finally people have realised that you can put a larger turbo on the 1.9 pd 130-150 bhp. as long as you have the vehicle custom map to suit your components you should have wadih power around 250 bhp.

fatwa no.4

I think this has been realised long time ago, you should do some more reading on the forum.

Next PD130 project with Race 783 and GT2256V should be ready next week. Turbo is still in pieces, though. Turbine will be 44 mm exducer.

 

[eliasuk98]

TDIfreak, i think what mufti saheb was pointing out is big turbo smaller engine doesnt necesserily mean it wont work, and i know its a known fact but it just seemed as though the general conclusion was heading towards the gt2559v is not suited for a 1.9pd... and there doesnt seem to be firm evidence why it wouldnt...

 

[eliasuk98]

heres some interesting pictures for those that havent seen a gt2559

http://freetrust.be/piaa1/website/Garrett%20GT2559v.htm