2015 Ford Transit 3.2L PowerStroke

[GoFaster]

Lots of traditional North American truck folks are skeptical of front drive. The reality is that unless you are loading the van to more than something like 80% of its weight capacity (which I never am), the front drive has better traction. Fiat has more than 30 years of front-drive experience with the Ducato.

For me, the front-drive is a selling point ... because it results in the load floor being quite a bit lower for easier loading and unloading, because it doesn't have to allow space for the drive shaft and differential bouncing around underneath there.

Granted, if you are doing heavy towing, that is beyond the capacity of Ducato/ProMaster.

Ford Transits have both front and rear drive configurations in the European market.

 

[FordGuy100]

I agree with what your saying. I was only looking at it with my dads setup in mind. I believe he grosses well above 9K and hauls that scissor lift around at least a few times a month.

I think for lighter duty, FWD would be perfectly fine.

His current van is a 06 Chevy Express 3500, 6.0l gasser. At 225K its showing its age (nice plume of blue smoke on startup).

 

[whitedog]

Some notes for today...

This van warms up quickly. This morning it was about 40 and i took it to get fuel. Withn a mile I was getting warmish air and in two miles it showed fully warm with hot air coming from the vents. MyTDIs would barely move in this time.

We put on bigger tires and I'm not sure if it's giving us any better fuel mileage. Time will tell on that.

I still have a few minor things to get it 100% ready per the contract but it is going on it's regular route starting tomorrow so we will see how it goes.

 

[DPM]

does it have a Webasto heater?

 

[whitedog]

No Webasto. The people that ordered this van (not people in our company) ordered the most basic long, 15 passenger van they could. Complete stripper model. I was excited when I heard this, but it wasn't what I was thinking.

 

[FordGuy100]

Any updates on mileage?

My parents just put in an order on theirs, but they opted for the ecoboost. Should average a few more MPG than the 10.5-11 mpg their Chevy is doing.

 

[kjclow]

My coworker in Canada has an F150 with the 6 cyl ecoboost. Says it's pretty good as long as your not using like a truck. Towing and hauling, it still sucks fuel.

 

[whitedog]

I will bug the boss Monday to see if he has the monthly bill so I can see how things are going. Right now the display has been showing a consistent 18.2 MPG but the tires put the speedo 5% over so that puts us right at 19 MPG. I want to do some pen and paper computing though.

Go to fordtransitusa.com. There is a thread there about fuel mileage for the EB engine.

 

[FordGuy100]

The medium roof vans are rated at 14/19/16. The one they ordered is a long wheelbase, 3.73LS, High Roof.

I'm thinking he will average 14-15mpg. We shall see! I tried to talk them into the diesel, they just didn't want the upfront cost, and the rate of return (even though I suggested that when they sell it off it will fetch a premium).

 

[whitedog]

I don't know if I would recommend a DPF diesel for in-town work unless it was able to get out on the highway looking for adventure a few times a week.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

In town work would be fine as long as it doesn't get shut off constantly.

 

[whitedog]

In town work would be fine as long as it doesn't get shut off constantly.

Do you mean so it doesn't get shut off during a regen? It would be regenning more frequently burning even more fuel so the scales would be tipped to a gasser. I'm not sure the ECO Boost Direct Injection yet. I don't know how far everyone has come to alleviate the problems of plugging the intake valves.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Do you mean so it doesn't get shut off during a regen? It would be regenning more frequently burning even more fuel so the scales would be tipped to a gasser. I'm not sure the ECO Boost Direct Injection yet. I don't know how far everyone has come to alleviate the problems of plugging the intake valves.

My concern would be interrupted regen cycles and frequent hot/cold cycles from turning off the engine. If you're stopped for a while, then it makes sense, but turning it off for 5 minutes at a time would be silly.

As for the increased regens, a little more idle time won't significantly impact the number of regenerations, nor will a few additional regens reduce system longevity, especially compared to constant engine starts and stops.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Another thing to consider is that SCR-equipped vehicles (urea) will do an exhaust warm-up mode almost every time the engine is started. That blowtorches the turbochargers (and is responsible for a lot of new Passat turbo failures, and probably soon-to-be 2015 TDI turbo failures) and consumes a significant amount of fuel. You would probably see a stiffer fuel economy hit with frequent engine starts than you would with a little bit more idling.

 

[whitedog]

I wasn't worried about cold starts since sitting for even an hour wouldn't cool down the coolant significantly. But this exhaust warm-up mode is something new to me. I guess I need to be doing more research about these systems.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

There is lots of information in the Passat forum about it, since it's the first experience we've had with it here on TDIClub that has actually been well-documented. I'd be interested to monitor your exhaust temperatures during warm-up on the Transit with a ScanGauge. It's possible that Ford handles it differently than VW is.

The summary (on the Passat) is that during the first couple of miles of driving, the ECU commands full EGTs using post-injection (similar to a regen) until the SCR cat has reached operating temperature. This means that you get 1300F through the cold turbocharger along with high boost pressure on cold oil until the SCR cat is around 800F. As you can imagine, this places an enormous amount of stress on the turbocharger, along with rapid temperature changes in all of the exhaust components. It can't really be avoided by driving gently, although driving brisky commands even more boost (easily the full 23 psi maximum) and has resulted in numerous turbocharger failures. You're basically seeing full turbocharger load (both temperature and boost) on less than 100F oil almost immediately after engine start.

Allowing the driver to warm up the engine at idle for 5 minutes before driving will warm up the oil, and reduce turbocharger stress, which is an interesting counterpoint to your anti-idling thread.

But like I said, Ford may handle this whole business completely differently, but it's something that is worth looking into.

 

[Selle]

In my last job I managed a fleet of 10 Transit vans. In the time I was there, a total of 15 Transits was under my care. We had very little trouble with these cars. All were fwd 2.2 diesel, medium roof. The last 2 was the new Transit Custom. Some of these did city driving with 5 minutes stops all day long. We had no problems with dpf on a single car

 

[whitedog]

Sells, it sounds like you had great experience with your vans but something I know is that even when things seem like the are the same between Euro and NA engines, there are differences. The 2.2 sounds like a great engine, but this one is all new as far as I know.

 

[whitedog]

So I went through the fuel bill today. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it came out to 18.8 MPG. That is with 35% idling time. To me this is WAY to high of an idle percentage but what can I do?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

18.8 isn't bad, considering.

 

[whitedog]

I wonder if it would get 20+ if they didn't have to idle it so much. Over one third is kinda ridiculous.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I'm sure, but I thought you'd given up on that mission.

 

[whitedog]

Yeah. I file it under " cost of doing business". I have reduced the cold idle time, but I have been en on a Few transit website and we should be using less DEF. At something like $175 per year on DEF it's not the cost, it comes down to the fact that we have to use more DEF because we idle a lot. Again - cost of business.

 

[whitedog]

I forgot that we are 5% oversize tires. That comes out to 19.75 MPG. That makes me happier.

 

[TurboDieselPoint]

Another thing to consider is that SCR-equipped vehicles (urea) will do an exhaust warm-up mode almost every time the engine is started. That blowtorches the turbochargers (and is responsible for a lot of new Passat turbo failures, and probably soon-to-be 2015 TDI turbo failures) and consumes a significant amount of fuel. You would probably see a stiffer fuel economy hit with frequent engine starts than you would with a little bit more idling.

Just curious, what SCR-equipped diesel vehicles aside from the CKRA Passats and vehicles with the EA288 do the "blowtorch"?

As far as I know, only the CKRA and EA288 have that strategy. I have never heard of this happening for the 2013+ 6.7L Cummins, nor the 6.7L Powerstroke, LML Duramax, 3.0L Ecodiesel, or CATA TDI to name a few, so I am doubtful this new-to-the-US 3.2L Powerstroke does it. I might be entirely incorrect, but I think the warm-up routine is limited to the CKRA and EA288.

Whitedog:

Does the owner's manual give any sort of revised maintenance schedule/interval for usage of B20? I know the 6.7L Powerstroke doesn't require any shortened oil change interval or fuel filter change interval for B20 usage despite its use of post-injection to vaporize diesel for regeneration. But, this van obviously has an entirely different engine with an even lower compression ratio (15.8:1, which makes it so quiet!) and to my knowledge also uses post-injection, so I don't know if Ford felt oil dilution with fuel was going to be a tangible issue with this engine.

Very nice van, and enjoy driving it! I'm hoping I can see and hear one in person at some point.

TurboDieselPoint

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Could be, I don't know.

 

[kjclow]

Just curious, what SCR-equipped diesel vehicles aside from the CKRA Passats and vehicles with the EA288 do the "blowtorch"?

As far as I know, only the CKRA and EA288 have that strategy. I have never heard of this happening for the 2013+ 6.7L Cummins, nor the 6.7L Powerstroke, LML Duramax, 3.0L Ecodiesel, or CATA TDI to name a few, so I am doubtful this new-to-the-US 3.2L Powerstroke does it. I might be entirely incorrect, but I think the warm-up routine is limited to the CKRA and EA288.

Does the EA288 have the same warm up procedure? don't think I've seen that comment else where.

 

[TurboDieselPoint]

Does the EA288 have the same warm up procedure? don't think I've seen that comment else where.

According to the EA288 Self-Study from Volkswagen, it too has the emissions warm-up procedure.

 

[whitedog]

Combustion gases in coolant

So at 130,000 miles, we are getting combustion gases in the coolant. I have been checking European websites and it seems that head gaskets are pretty rare on this engine, so I'm going to try to bypass the coolant loop in the EGR cooler and see if I still get bubbles and if the magic blue fluid turns yellow like it did yesterday.

One other possibility could be the EGR valve itself - maybe. Coolant hose comes off of the EGR cooler, to a fitting on the EGR valve, then out a fitting on the EGR valve then to the oil cooler. So far, I have gone over the Coffee table book on this engine and I just can't tell if they are using the EGR valve just as a handy connection point or if it has passages to cool the valve and could possibly leak.

It would seem to me that if there are passages in the EGR valve, they would be relatively stout castings rather than the flimsy passages in the heat exchanger. According to the pictures, it's a tube-type cooler.

I could also pull the EGR valve and look for coolant there. If there is coolant, it's gotta be the EGR cooler.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

That isn't a good sign, although I'm impressed with your ability to rack up the miles.