2009 Cold Start Scare/Problem?

[Q-Ship]

You've got mail.

 

[vwethan]

Just had mine done and the dealer couldn't have been nicer. VOA picked up the tab, and given our location, the dealer is now keeping the kits in stock. I am trying to find out if this is a standard feature on EU VWs. BTW, I had a Mk VI Jetta (2011) as a loaner. Yech!!. I heard it had been decontented but going beck to a 1950s trunk hinge design is a little much. And talk about body roll - I thought I was driving my grandmothers '72 Bonneville!!

A few questions:
1. Did the dealer demand that you have the issue "reproduced" prior to them filing a claim for you against the TSB?

2. Is the car still under warranty (3/36 B2B or 5/60 PT)?

Thanks!

 

[740GLE]

when the dealer signed off on my "Kit" they found some water and sludge in the IC at the 30K service last year.

This year I just had to remind them I had the issue and there was a solution for it, they remembered the kit and ordered the kit and had me come back in when it arrived, very hassle free.

 

[Q-Ship]

A few questions:
1. Did the dealer demand that you have the issue "reproduced" prior to them filing a claim for you against the TSB?

2. Is the car still under warranty (3/36 B2B or 5/60 PT)?

Thanks!

Had the "no crank" failure mode and had the U-Boat towed to the dealer. I was lucky I didn't bend a conrod! They suspected it was the intercooler problem right away and called later to say that they had emptied a significant amount of water our of it. Nothing else was required. I put a lot of miles on the vehicle and thus it was out of warranty. I think someone at VOA figured out that charging a customer $1200+ to fix an obvious design flaw was not good business.

 

[path23dv]

I spoke to a VW of America advocate about getting the TSB installed for free since I had two occurrences, one in warranty, one outside. VWOA responded that they would pay for the parts($900+) but not the labor. Two local dealers quoted $710 and $798 for the labor.

 

[740GLE]

You should thank VW for paying the $900 for parts and buy another car from them!

Wow!! you need to stick to your guns, they need to flip the entire bill for the TSB.

Dealer installed mine at 46K, cost to me $0.00, only my time.

 

[Rodya]

Agree... I was at 46K and they are paying 100%

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Intercooler icing survey

For those of you who are experiencing intercooler icing and water condensation issues, please take 15 seconds (literally) to fill out a little survey that I have created. I am compiling a map of commonrail owners who have experienced these problems with their cars.

SURVEY
MAP

Please note that I update the map with info collected from the survey on a daily basis. It may take a few hours for your pin to show up on the map once you have completed the survey.

Thanks!

 

[Elfnmagik]

Are you only interested in "no start/rough start" occurrences or are you wanting moisture/goop in IC pipes too?

 

[740GLE]

either, or

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Significant moisture and snotty goop is enough for a pin, I think. It shows a significant problem and left unchecked would likely result in a no start or rough running.

 

[jpsum]

Since my last visit to the dealer noted above, I got a call from VW USA today asking me if my cold start issue has been resolved. I was really surprised that they called. The lady asked me what they did for my problem. I told her that they couldn't replicate the problem and found no error code on the computer, then sent me home.

She said she will call back on Friday, 1/27/12, because she need to find out what the dealer did to troubleshoot.

Further, I told her that I suspected the intercooler iced up because a lot of online people are having the same issue and there is supposed to be a retrofit kit to fix the problem. She said that there is such a kit, but it won't work on the "newer" TDIs - I'm assuming she's referring to the 2011 and up.

She said she will call back and most likely will want me to bring the car back for further diagnostics. I told her I'm glad she called, she replied: because we do care if you are having issues.

At this point, it sounds like to me that VW probably thought they've solved the cold start issue with some kind of design change to the 2011, and got very interested once they saw my problem reported to the dealer. Maybe they will send their tech to the dealer?

Will keep you guys posted.

Update to my post above.

Finally brought my car back to the dealer for further troubleshooting per VWoA's request. With the VWoA tech on the call with the dealer's tech, they inspected the high pressure fuel pump for metal debris, checked fuel pressure, and checked the retention valve in the fuel pump - everything ok. Also, found no error code on ECU. They probably suspect a fuel pump failure or some sort. Not uncommon with these TDIs.

Without finding any signs of problem (or at least they said they found nothing), they are going to replace the fuel pump's retention valve and install the intercooler kit. Ordered the parts and will call me when it comes in. I was told it could take a few weeks.

One thing they did not mention is the condition of the intercooler and the hoses connected to it. No mention of any water in the hoses.


Does anyone know why they would want to change the retention valve???

 

[dweisel]

Update to my post above.

Finally brought my car back to the dealer for further troubleshooting per VWoA's request. With the VWoA tech on the call with the dealer's tech, they inspected the high pressure fuel pump for metal debris, checked fuel pressure, and checked the retention valve in the fuel pump - everything ok. Also, found no error code on ECU. They probably suspect a fuel pump failure or some sort. Not uncommon with these TDIs.

Without finding any signs of problem (or at least they said they found nothing), they are going to replace the fuel pump's retention valve and install the intercooler kit. Ordered the parts and will call me when it comes in. I was told it could take a few weeks.

One thing they did not mention is the condition of the intercooler and the hoses connected to it. No mention of any water in the hoses.


Does anyone know why they would want to change the retention valve???

Not sure what the dealership is calling the "pumps retention valve" The only retention valve I know of is in the return line from the injectors. It purpose is to hold/maintain pressure of the injectors bleed off to let the injectors function properly. I would not think they would be talking about any hpfp parts. As far as I know they do not replace individual parts of a hpfp.

Below pic: fuel retention valve. It is the cylinder shaped part with the silver colored ring. There were two different styles. The one pictured and the other style was much smaller.

 

[nutate]

My car won't start either. I'm stuck at a holiday inn until Aaa gets here it blows. 2009 Jetta sportwagen tdi. I took it in a week ago after this happened and they replaced the throttle valve. What next? This is nonsense. Not sure what aaa will do anyway. Ski trip for today is a bust. So much for my fancy new car working outside of so cal. Doesn't Germany get cold sometimes?

 

[jpsum]

I think that's it. I was probably mistaken by with their explanation over the phone. Have an idea why they would want to change that out?

 

[dweisel]

I think that's it. I was probably mistaken by with their explanation over the phone. Have an idea why they would want to change that out?

The dealership only does what VW Tech tells them to do when its under warranty. Maybe ask the dealership what codes it was throwing? (if any) I have not heard here of anyone getting the fuel retention valve replaced before as a fix for a problem. Just have to wait and see if it fixes the problem. As I stated before the retention valve holds bleed off fuel pressure from the injectors so they will function properly. I'm not sure if that bleed off pressure can be read anyway. Maybe the injection pressures are reading out of spec. Just a guess on my part.

 

[jpsum]

The dealership only does what VW Tech tells them to do when its under warranty. Maybe ask the dealership what codes it was throwing? (if any) I have not heard here of anyone getting the fuel retention valve replaced before as a fix for a problem. Just have to wait and see if it fixes the problem. As I stated before the retention valve holds bleed off fuel pressure from the injectors so they will function properly. I'm not sure if that bleed off pressure can be read anyway. Maybe the injection pressures are reading out of spec. Just a guess on my part.

My intercooler kit is on order. Been waiting for over a month. My service adviser says this kit is a newer version, which will replace the entire intercooler, not just adding a valve. Will keep you guys posted.

 

[740GLE]

The original kit replaced the entire IC, so I don't know what he's talking about.

There hasn't been any proof VW is now offering any new designed kit than the first one they've installed. I guess many people will find out next fall/winter.

I wonder if they will still have a "one month" back order.

 

[aneblanc]

My intercooler kit is on order. Been waiting for over a month. My service adviser says this kit is a newer version, which will replace the entire intercooler, not just adding a valve. Will keep you guys posted.

Mine is also on order at VW Coleman of Bridgewater, NS since about December. I didn't have the problem again so I forgot a bit about the kit. I will ask them again in June. I will be in Germany in April-May and will try to ask a dealer about the kit and its replacement.

 

[740GLE]

keep the pressure on! or you may be out of warranty next winter and the dealer will just shrug

 

[aneblanc]

keep the pressure on! or you may be out of warranty next winter and the dealer will just shrug

How long is the warranty? My Golf wagon (aka JSW) is a June 2010.

 

[740GLE]

Many here have been told dealers won't install the kit unless your within your 36mo/36K warranty. But seeing you reported the issue before that time, you should be covered.

(I was covered when I reported it my first winter before the first kit was even assigned a part number)

 

[thanatos]

I just had my kit installed at Hillcrest VW yesterday (I've been waiting since Dec for my kit). Posted in the other thread as well but long story short it's new plumbing and intercooler with a thermal sensor on the bumper. They did a free compression test (actually they did 3, 2 on my car and one on a brand new one for reference) and oil change, as well as gave me a '12 Jetta for the day as a loaner as my wife is pregnant and due... well a week ago. Gave it a decent road test, let me spend about 20 minutes talking to the tech (I suspect their best) that did the work. Can't say enough about how they've gone to bat for me.

 

[MotoWPK]

So is there a consensus on whether to have the intercooler kit installed or not if you haven't (yet) experienced a cold start issue?

Having read the reports on this forum that VW will only cover this under warranty if the problem has been experienced, I've also read the TSB and it clearly describes a problem that is generic to the subject vehicles with it's occurence dependant upon the environmental conditions encountered.

While living in a cold region (the CO Rocky Mountains), my 2009 TDI typically rests a night in a heated garage. Plus, low temperatures here are usually associated with extremely low humidity. That would explain why my TDI hasn't experienced the problem, but I don't want to wait until I'm on the next winter trip to a cold and humid region to do so.

I've considered visiting the dealer to press for installation of the cold weather intercooler kit, but, is this the right thing to do? Are there other problems or risks associated with having the kit installed that may outweigh the risk of the cold weather starting problem?

 

[MotoWPK]

Interesting, no reply. So has this become a none issue? Nothing to really worry about?

 

[thanatos]

If you haven't experienced an issue (which the dealer can confirm) then I highly doubt they'll approve the repair. I wouldn't say it's nothing to worry about, it's something that's hit thousands of us.

 

[MotoWPK]

As I read the TSB it describes a problem encountered in certain environmental conditions that is resolved by installing the charge air cooler kit. This is different than replacing some part that may have been manufactured defectively - it is an issue that exists on all 2009-2011 Jettas, JSW's and Golf's (according to the TSB). So if you haven't experience the problem it's not a matter of your vehicle not having a defective part, rather, it's a matter of not having encountered the environmental conditions that will cause the problem - yet.
Of course just because you haven't encountered it yet doesn't mean you won't and it seems illogical to wait until a known problem is encountered, e.g. failure to start when on a trip far from home and/or a dealer.
I'm wondering why, with the issue identified and documented by VW, all owners of the vehicles included in the TSB aren't insisting on installation of the charge air cooler kit in lieu of waiting until they are stranded due to a failure to start.

 

[tdiatlast]

MotoWPK, I agree with your assessment. Sadly, contrary to what thanatos asserts in the previous post, it isn't something that has "hit thousands of us."...maybe not even hundreds. The past mild winter has also probably delayed the arrival of this issue for those of us that are on the "freeze line."

 

[thanatos]

MotoWPK, I agree with your assessment. Sadly, contrary to what thanatos asserts in the previous post, it isn't something that has "hit thousands of us."...maybe not even hundreds. The past mild winter has also probably delayed the arrival of this issue for those of us that are on the "freeze line."

Have you looked at the map in the other thread? tdiclub.com represents a very small subset of the impacted owner population. I would be very surprised if there weren't thousands of owners who have or have had sludge in their intercoolers. I could be wrong, but either way describing it as "thousands" or "hundreds" really doesn't change my perception of the scenario.

VW generally won't authorize a repair on a vehicle that hasn't been diagnosed with the problem (as we've seen by numerous posts in this thread) as it's a very costly exercise, and the parts are in very short supply. If on top of the existing supply shortage for diagnosed owners, we had to contend with an entire production range retrofit, it would be years before those diagnosed folks received parts instead of just months.

 

[jpsum]

Mine is also on order at VW Coleman of Bridgewater, NS since about December. I didn't have the problem again so I forgot a bit about the kit. I will ask them again in June. I will be in Germany in April-May and will try to ask a dealer about the kit and its replacement.

After over three months of waiting for the part, my intercooler is finally here!!! Going in on 6/14/2012 to get it installed.