2003 jetta tdi wagon +extreme cold--block heater as a solution?

[DreadtimI]

Is there a block heater and is it recommended for 2003 tsi jetta? I live at 9000 ft in the southern rockies, often -15 in the morning and I don't wwant to fry the turbo --is a block heater recommended ?

 

[meganuke]

There aren't any freeze plugs to install a true block heater on the ALH motor, to my knowledge. Many people use a TDIHeater (now called Frostheater). It's an easy install, doesn't cost much and works very well. If access to an outlet is a problem, consider getting a parking heater system like the Webasto BlueHeat.

The cold weather won't damage your turbo at all. Using the correct oil is all the insurance you need for your turbo.

 

[widsl]

Couldn't agree more with Meganuke. Correct full synthetic oil is the key. My '98 has been cranked over at more than -20 many times. Except for waiting for the glow plug light to go off, there is not much difference from summer starting--just a little more diesel clatter. Currently at 160,000 and running strong.

widsl

 

[ymz]

There are many TDI owners in Canada, and it gets even colder up here !!!

Use the correct oil and make sure your battery (and charging system - and wires) are in good shape, and you should be fine !!! For extreme cold, you could move to a 0W-40 oil that meets the other standards, but I don't think you need that where you are...

Yuri

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

For extreme cold, you could move to a 0W-40 oil that meets the other standards

I was thinking of doing that here, in Alaska.

Growing up in FL, my dad always ran 20-50 in all of or vehicles because of the heat. I was thinking the reverse would work up here.

What do you think?

 

[ymz]

I was thinking of doing that here, in Alaska...What do you think?

Alaska ??? Well, that's just like Canada... except for the health system...

As long as you find a good 0W-40 Diesel oil rated CH-4 or higher, you should be fine!!! I don't know what products are available around your neck of the woods, but the specs will tell all... (Actually, I believe that at least one of the super-high-tech oils may be "only" 0W-30, but it does have the other VW specs on it...)

Yuri.

 

[alanroberson]

We've got a great health care system - just dont get sick or hurt.

 

[peteman]

Suprised no one mentioned the tdi heater. I use one wheenver it dips below -10. Today it's -20 and when I start my car it will blow heat out of the vents and be at operating temp. There is no need to run the glow plugs. www.tdiheater.com or www.frostheater.com. Blockheater is useless.

 

[mrGutWrench]

Suprised no one mentioned the tdi heater. I use one wheenver it dips below -10. Today it's -20 and when I start my car it will blow heat out of the vents and be at operating temp. There is no need to run the glow plugs. www.tdiheater.com or www.frostheater.com. Blockheater is useless.

__. When you say "blockheater is useless", are you referring to the stick-on heater that VW sells for adhering to the bottom of the oil pan? If so, yes, it's completely agreed that it's very close to useless. But if I were in that environment, I think that I'd have one in addition to the tdi-heater in the coolant line. While the coolant heater would do an excellent job of warming the entire engine and thus the oil would be heated -- especially in the areas of the engine with the water jacket -- I would want to heat the oil in the sump as much as possible. Probably "over the top", but it's how I'd prefer. Get as much heat into that engine as possible.

 

[jasonTDI]

Yep, the oil haning out in the pan dosen't get too warm. Maybe 20F warmer than ambient. I've felt the pan and pulled the dipstick to feel the oil, not to warm. Be careful to inspect that oil pan heater a LOT! Make sure you CLEAN the HECK out of the pan so the adheasive REALLY sticks and I'd still check it monthly at a minimum since I have replaced at least 5 belly pans in the past 2 years that MELTED due to the pad coming off. Huge fire risk.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Suprised no one mentioned the tdi heater. I use one wheenver it dips below -10. Today it's -20 and when I start my car it will blow heat out of the vents and be at operating temp. There is no need to run the glow plugs. www.tdiheater.com or www.frostheater.com. Blockheater is useless.

Someone did mention the TDI Heater... in the 2nd post.

The term "block-heater" refers to any device which heats the engine block. The TDI Heater / Zerostart / Frost Heater / Webasto / whatever, all fall into this category.

The oil pan heater has turned out to be a fairly dangerous device, so use at your own risk. If you keep a good eye on it, it's nice to have something that heats the oil directly, but you have to keep an eye on it.

 

[jasonTDI]

Or use it in conjunction with a METAL skid plate!

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Alaska ??? Well, that's just like Canada... except for the health system...

Yuri.

Touché.

 

[DrewD]

Is there a block heater and is it recommended for 2003 tsi jetta? I live at 9000 ft in the southern rockies, often -15 in the morning and I don't wwant to fry the turbo --is a block heater recommended ?

Where do you live? If near me, I can help you install a TDI heater. I've done several and got it down to about 30 minutes of work.

 

[mrGutWrench]

Yep, the oil haning out in the pan dosen't get too warm. Maybe 20F warmer than ambient. I've felt the pan and pulled the dipstick to feel the oil, not to warm.

__. That's what I would have guessed. *Every* degree that the oil starts out warmer is better (OK, a slight exageration for emphasis but you know what I mean -- warm oil is better than cold oil).

Be careful to inspect that oil pan heater a LOT! Make sure you CLEAN the HECK out of the pan so the adheasive REALLY sticks and I'd still check it monthly at a minimum since I have replaced at least 5 belly pans in the past 2 years that MELTED due to the pad coming off. Huge fire risk.

__. Interesting experiences. The whole idea of "stickon" bothers me anyway. If you have a cold oil pan and a cold heater plate and you hit the juice, what happens? First the heater warms up and expands while the pan stays cold -- isn't that going to give you differential heating and expansion and pull at whatever adhesive is supposed to be holding that thing on? And you're fighting gravity all the time anyway -- that heater plate is just hanging on the bottom of the pan by the adhesive. That's one of the worst uses for an adhesive around. No wonder it fails.

__. If I had to use one, I'd rig up some kind of helper strap or bracket (s) to hold it.

 

[jackbombay]

I live in Idaho and see -30 more than I'd like, I set my TDIheater on a timer to come on 2 hours beofre I will leave the house, I also have an oil heater, bolt on type, 1000 watts of coolant heater and 300 watts of oil pan heat, it starts up instantly.

I feel the oil pan heater is necessary because oil takes a long time to get to the cam otherwise, sure the oil light goes out right away and the cam bearings are getting oil, but at cold temps while oil pressure is very high flow is very low and the cam lobes can run dry for a significant period of time.

 

[jackbombay]

RE: stick on heaters; I've had one on my subaru for 4 years, no problem at all, it's a "Cat" brand (Not Caterpillar) , they make all sorts of engine warming items, the pad really doesn;t wanbt to come off, I had one on my TDI before I got the bolt on one and I had to use a chisel to get it off, that was on a hot engine too.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

[...]isn't that going to give you differential heating and expansion and pull at whatever adhesive is supposed to be holding that thing on? And you're fighting gravity all the time anyway -- that heater plate is just hanging on the bottom of the pan by the adhesive. That's one of the worst uses for an adhesive around. No wonder it fails.

__. If I had to use one, I'd rig up some kind of helper strap or bracket (s) to hold it.

If you wanted to use an adhesive, 3M makes a product called PRC. It's an aviation sealant. There are about 10 different varieties. All of them wll expand and contract with temperature changes-severe and rapid changes. An aircraft can go from 100 deg F sitting on the gate at Tampa International in August, take off and within 10 mins be above 12k ft altitude-where the tempertures start dropping off toward -35F at 30k ft.

The stuff is totally awesome. Once it's cured, anywhere from an hour or so to 24 hours-depending on the variety, you can pull all of the screws out af an access panel and the panel will stay on by just the sealant. It's held panels on in flight before. You have to scrape it out with a scraper or cut the length of it with a razor blade.

You know how the A3 Jettas all have their door moldings missing? I put mine back on with 3 different kinds of tapes and glues. Finally I put it on with PRC-never a problem again.

You can order it direct from 3M. It requires a special gun to shoot into the seams (which is $30 or you an adapt a caulking gun) But for applying it direct to a wide area, such as an oil pan heater pad, you can use the back of a screwdriver handle to push it out of the tube.

It has to be mixed with the hardner which is included inside of the handle. If you're in a hurry, use two handles to "double harden it." Then you cover it over in speed tape (metal tape) and go fly (or...er.. drive?) The next day, you pull of the speed tape.

It's called PRC by 3M and the one best suited (I think) for this application is called 1422B-1/2 (Fourteen, twenty-two, bee and a half.) The 1/2 denotes 1/2 hour tack time.

PRC rocks.

We now return you to regular programming. Err, discussion board.

Sorry about the shameless commercial. For the record, I have zero connection to 3M.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

These cars will start fine when it's really cold, if well maintained. I think some kind of a heater would help reduce start-up wear, but it's not really needed. Another thought is to get a trickle charger for your battery (like a motorcycle one) and leave it plugged in all night. This would keep the battery warmer, which will allow it more cranking power.

I would really like a Webasto in my B4. It would be the ideal apres-snowboard accessory.

 

[jasonTDI]

MGW you are correct on every degree counts.

That aircraft adheasive sounds REALLY handy.

 

[Letemfly]

[/QUOTE]
It's called PRC by 3M and the one best suited (I think) for this application is called 1422B-1/2 (Fourteen, twenty-two, bee and a half.) The 1/2 denotes 1/2 hour tack time.
PRC rocks.
We now return you to regular programming. Err, discussion board.
Sorry about the shameless commercial. For the record, I have zero connection to 3M.[/QUOTE]
Actually it is made by several companys and it is available in a can with a can of hardner. In case you only need a little at a time you wont have to mix the whole can. It is a shelf life item so you may find some at your local airport that has expired but if stored in a fridg will be good for non aviation stuff for a good year after the date on the can. It is made application specific like for fuel tanks. That is Jet A mind you a little more agressive than ULSD or 100ll avgas. It is also made for firewall sealant which is High temp stuff. or cabin sealing. It is great stuff way better than rtv for most everything. It will clean off with MEK (Bad for your liver) but you can clean up after using it with Rubbing Alcohol and cloth towls better than paper but paper will work.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

It is great stuff way better than rtv for most everything. It will clean off with MEK (Bad for your liver) but you can clean up after using it with Rubbing Alcohol and cloth towls better than paper but paper will work.[/QUOTE]

I forgot to mention, if you overspill it onto your car, you can clea it off while it is still wet by spraying a rag with LPS2 (yet another aviation item-a lubrican/corrosion preventative) and just wiping it away. Works great. WD40 might work also-never tried it.

We should start a section of the forum called aviation transfer technology where we just send out ideas on how to adapt processes and material from aviation to our Volkswagens. lol

 

[AlanZ]

Rather than the pad that adheres to the oil pan ... I’ve been using a dipstick electric (AC) heater and have had great success. The unit was purchased in 1983 and still going strong. Cant tell you the number of engines that have started with hot oil. I like the block heater combo.

 

[Mongler98]

You have a dip stick hater?
That's from 1983?
That fits in a VW tdi?
Almost as old as this thread!
Just making sure you have quality oil in the pan that is still good is #1 and makes oil heater pointless. Those oil heater dipsticks and tricks stemmed from the days like 1983 when oil sucked and you needed basically 2000 between oil changed before it turned back into dino blood.