Is a better hand-brake upgrade possible or available ?

[zimbodel]

My Manual Transmission TDI Beetle has a very weak hand-brake, and although it passed safety inspection it is really way too weak to my liking. It is really a joke and not a brake, and no better than the brakes on the first car, namely the Benz of the late 1800's.
I went through the detailed service records of the car and adjusting the hand-brake was always seemingly requested.

Is it possible to install custom pads or linings that will bite better, or is there a replacement hand-brake kit that will make the hand-brake much more usable and stronger available ?

 

[Mysticle31]

Mine works fine. Even used it for creating some emergency situations..lol

I'd make sure your adjusted right, have good rear brakes and cables.

 

[zimbodel]

It has been adjusted by several professional shops and it still sucks. To them it is ok - go figure.
For me it is not okay if it starts rolling on a very slight slope and defeats the objective.

 

[[486]]

all of mine have been this way, where they don't do much of anything even with enough force that the plastic cable sheaths end up smashed into the ends of the aluminum tubes
Clearly they should work and probably did at some point, but they just don't.
I've thought about getting a couple of those ebay hydraulic handbrake levers then plumbing them inline with the rear calipers and making a linkage to attach them to the handbrake lever, but I've never bothered. I keep a shovel in the car and use it as a wheel chock if I've gotta leave it running while hopping out.

 

[hskrdu]

A properly operating MkIV e-brake will hold the car fine on even the steepest of slopes. I'd suggest replacing the cables or troubleshooting the system.

 

[zimbodel]

I've thought about getting a couple of those ebay hydraulic handbrake levers then plumbing them inline with the rear calipers and making a linkage to attach them to the handbrake lever, but I've never bothered. I keep a shovel in the car and use it as a wheel chock if I've gotta leave it running while hopping out.

All of them? Well then you confirm that it is a sytemic issue and therefore probably a design error.
Lol yes... I have made two wedge chucks with a chainsaw from railway sleepers I keep in the back. I usually only use one.

 

[zimbodel]

A properly operating MkIV e-brake will hold the car fine on even the steepest of slopes. I'd suggest replacing the cables or troubleshooting the system.

Naturally, but since several shops already failed, it is natural to conclude that nobody else can fix it as they cannot all be fools. Therefore I need to abolish the existing weak design and asked whether there is a better replacement available for the entire hand-brake system as the design is seemingly flawed.
So I will of course have to do it myself as everyone else I took it too failed to fix it.

I have obviously no other option but to troubleshoot the entire system as you correctly point out, but it really seems like a weak design as there are others with the same complaint and not just me.
It really is the only complaint I have with my 2006 Beetle TDI. Otherwise it is a damn pleasure to own, and it is so easy to work on so far. I dont know why people complain so much that it is a difficult car to work on. By my experience .. not so.

 

[[486]]

A properly operating MkIV e-brake will hold the car fine on even the steepest of slopes. I'd suggest replacing the cables or troubleshooting the system.

I've taken the calipers apart and understand how they work, with the three little balls on ramps pushing the piston out when you yank on the lever, and the multi-start threaded rod compensating for pad wear.
I just can't see why they don't.

 

[hskrdu]

Naturally, but since several shops already failed, it is natural to conclude that nobody else can fix it as they cannot all be fools. Therefore I need to abolish the existing weak design and asked whether there is a better replacement available for the entire hand-brake system as the design is seemingly flawed. So I will of course have to do it myself as everyone else I took it too failed to fix it. I have obviously no other option but to troubleshoot the entire system as you correctly point out, but it really seems like a weak design as there are others with the same complaint and not just me. It really is the only complaint I have with my 2006 Beetle TDI. Otherwise it is a damn pleasure to own, and it is so easy to work on so far. I dont know why people complain so much that it is a difficult car to work on. By my experience .. not so.

I agree the MkIV is easy to work on, and I'm not especially talented. The e-brake system is quite simple, as is troubleshooting. If a mechanic is stumped, it might not an issue with the car (but with the mechanic- or someone who doesn't know VWs). The primary point of the failure for the MkIV e-brake is the cable lines, which is one reason they introduced a heavy duty version. My '03 has only had one set of cables replaced after 20 years, because the underside was taken care of twice a year, but our old '03 went through a few sets to keep the e-brake working properly. The caliper springs help with retraction, too. See:

Emergency Parking Brake Cable HEAVY DUTY (A4)

These OEM emergency parking brake cables have a thicker, extra-durable sheath covering that protects the inner metal cable. for A4 chassis cars from the VW dealership. 1698mm. Price is for one cabl...

www.idparts.com

Caliper Spring for Rear Axle - Left (A4)

This spring attaches on the rear caliper and aids in the retraction of the parking brake. This clip fits the left side....

www.idparts.com

If the calipers are good, and the slide pins greased, the e-brake cables get replaced almost as a timed maint item. Owners in the salty areas often go through many sets. This can be mitigated by fluid film, cleaning, greasing, and always using the e-brake when parking. Even then, the cables usually give up, and it's an easy DIY.

 

[zimbodel]

I dont understand why the cable would be an issue in my case. I can pull it up as far as I can, but there is not enough grip on the brake surface which seems to be the problem. Unless of course the cable snags somewhere on the way to the wheels which gives a false sense of tension.

I will replace the caliper spring and cable, but it seems to me it is a brake problem which would account for tseveral shops not being able to fix it.

Thanks all for the advice. At least I know that it is a nagging problem that is pervasive and just maybe how it was designed.
I will see what I can do.

 

[hskrdu]

The issue was so well recognized that we did a how-to on it back in 2002. Brian's comments:

As many of you know, there are really two types of Volkswagens; those that need parking brake cables, and those that will need parking brake cables. But the A4 platform cars, by far and away, are the very worst for this.

Volkswagen must have been paying attention, and after 15 years (yeah, they are a little slow) they have FINALLY made an improvement!

The new updated cables have a very thick, chunky extra outer sleeve, beefier caliper end cap, and improved boot. These will work on any A4 Golf, Jetta, or New Beetle provided you already have the ball-end for the caliper arm. This means most 2000+ cars. Earlier cars, with the barrel-end, will need the rear calipers swapped (or at least the arms) to the newer type.

Parts needed:

1J0-609-721-AQ x2 brake cable
1J0-609-651-H x2 bracket
1J0-609-734 x2 clip
1J0-609-745-H bracket
1J0-609-746-H bracket

Volkswagen list price on all of this should be around $115 or so, the reason for all the extra bits is because these larger cables won't fit into the existing retaining brackets.

I am not aware of any aftermarket sources for this yet, but hopefully some of our excellent parts vendors will see this and can put together a nice kit for us.

Parking brake cable upgrade

As many of you know, there are really two types of Volkswagens; those that need parking brake cables, and those that will need parking brake cables. But the A4 platform cars, by far and away, are the very worst for this. Volkswagen must have been paying attention, and after 15 years (yeah...

forums.tdiclub.com

Parking brake cable replacement, step by step

Today I'm replacing the parking brake cable on my Golf. Reason: the rubber boot at the tail end cracked, and the water that leaks inside freezes the brake in place in cold weather, . A simple whack with a long screwdriver frees it, but I have no wish to do this every time I use the parking...

forums.tdiclub.com

If the cables don't fix it, or if you want to troubleshoot other issues:

How to Fix MKIV Sticky, Rusty, Gunked, Immobile Parking/Emergency Brakes

Over the past two years, my parking brakes went from working like champs to being chronically stuck. After dragging them on one too many trips, I ultimately decided to purchase the springs outlined in these threads...

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[zimbodel]

I did search for it but it was probably in a different section.
Sorry to post something that was already covered, but I honestly did search the forum.
Since I was not born in the USA I dont use the terms Parking/Emergency brakes as those terms are generally associated with automatic transmissions. e.g. "Park" is an automatic transmission term.
Where I come from it is called a hand-brake for manual transmissions - period.
In German, which I also speak, it is called Handbremse, which translates to handbrake literally.

That accounts for why I couldnt find anything.
I will go through your post links in detail.
Thank you very much.

 

[Nuje]

Have you pulled apart the centre armrest console and adjusted the 10mm nut that's on the rod holding the cradle which "cradles" the cable-ends?

Get the rear end up in the air (chock the front of course so it doesn't roll away).
Release parking brake - do both wheels spin?
Pull parking brake lever - you should be able to tighten the lug bolts to proper torque spec (87ft.lb.) with the parking brake set.
If the wheel turns well before you get to the 87ft.lb., release the parking brake and tighten the parking brake cable inside the cabin (under the centre armrest) - look for a YouTube video, as it'll help you way more than me trying to explain.

 

[Andyinchville1]

How about a hydraulic handbrake set up like the rally drivers use to kick the rear end out and incorporate a line loc feature into it to hydraulically lock the rear brakes? .... in theory you can do this with the front brakes as well if plumbed into it as well off maybe the regular brake pedal?

Of course leave the car in gear (or park for an auto tranny) for extra safety.

On some medium duty trucks, the auto trannies in them have NO park pawls and they entirely depend on the cable parking brake to hold things still .... scary thing the brake cables DO BREAK unexpectedly and the truck can roll off .... ( I was in a step van parked on a hill when the park brake cable snapped and it started rolling .... I had to run to the front of the van and press the brakes hard to get it to stop .... needless to sat I always chocked wheels after that! ( a similar incidenct happened to my helper in a 26' box truck with auto tranny and mechanical park brake only .. luckily it broke when he was close by and got into the cab before it started rolling too fast to catch.... scary stuff).

Luckily our cars , in addition to parking brakes, have Park or in gear parking to help prevent runaways .....

Andrew

 

[zimbodel]

Have you pulled apart the centre armrest console and adjusted the 10mm nut that's on the rod holding the cradle which "cradles" the cable-ends?

Yes, already increased the tension of the cable.
It fails the lug nut test by far, I just checked as it is in the air on my lift at home currently cannopt torque past 25lbf with the brake handle fully up.
I will repeat your procedure again. Thank you very much for the 87ftlb metric. That is helpful as a gauge to aim for.

 

[[486]]

One that I've found helps sometimes is to use the service brake to apply the brakes, then yank the cable brake to hold it compressed.
Shouldn't need to do that, but...

 

[zimbodel]

One that I've found helps sometimes is to use the service brake to apply the brakes, then yank the cable brake to hold it compressed.
Shouldn't need to do that, but...

Actually quite a great "survival" tip. First thing I will try once it is off the lift.

 

[Nuje]

Maybe pull off one of the calipers and see if the parking brake actually ratchets the caliper piston (?).

With the caliper off the rotor / carrier, remove the parking brake cable and you should be able to pull the little lever on the caliper that holds the PB cable with your hand and watch the caliper piston ratchet outward (if you haven't pressed back rear brake calipers before, note that you'll need to turn the piston clockwise back into the caliper with a special tool - you can't just force it back with a C-clamp like you might with front caliper piston).

 

[zimbodel]

Maybe pull off one of the calipers and see if the parking brake actually ratchets the caliper piston (?).
(if you haven't pressed back rear brake calipers before, note that you'll need to turn the piston clockwise back into the caliper with a special tool - you can't just force it back with a C-clamp like you might with front caliper piston).

Thanks a lot for that tip ....That would have been exactly what I would have done - using a clamp, although I do read up a lot before doing any job and usually find out these things somehow, but this info is priceless thank you! You probably saved me a lot of headache. Cannot believe that crazy design though...might be the source of my problems. Complex designs usually result in multitudes of problems.

 

[cuppie]

My $0.02....
But, it isn't a "complex design", and it isn't unique to VW. Literally every carmaker on the planet has used brake calipers with integrated cable-operated handbrake, and have done so for a few decades now.
Either you have really crappy brake pads (e.g. "lasts forever" compound), the slide pins are seized, the calipers are broken (honestly, just replacing them with NEW parts is best - and, they aren't expensive), or the cables are shot (read: aren't pulling on the caliper hard enough.)

Checking the slide pins is simple. You don't even need to *remove* the calipers - just take the bolts out, and make sure that the pins move.
Cables are fairly inexpensive, and simple to replace.
Even new calipers are only about $80 each.

No point in trying to reinvent the wheel, when it's a lot easier to just fix the wheel.

 

[oilhammer]

Not everyone uses this design.... drums are actually better for parking than discs. However, that car should have no trouble holding itself (and a trailer full of fat chicks hooked behind it) on a hill with a properly working parking brake.

Cables are very common issues, I doubt there is a single New Beetle anywhere that has its original cables intact and working as when it was new. Calipers are less troublesome, but still often need attention. The only fix for that is NEW calipers (which are available), as the remanufacrured parts store ones are typically junk, often in short order or even right out of the box.

 

[zimbodel]

By complex design I referred to the fact that the pistons need to be rotated back in. That is a pretty complex requirement compared to any other car I worked on that can be just pushed back in with a modified clamp. Right !?

I went through the service records and the entire rear braking system has been replaced 4 years ago for quite a sum. Seems like - as usual over here- they just fixed nothing and things still dont work. From the records I see perpetual requests to fix the handbrake. So they didnt manage to fix the problem, but they did manage to clear out the previous owners bank account.
Flakes all of them are.

Dont even get where I try to reinvent the wheel. You read too much Alley Oop ?

My $0.02....
But, it isn't a "complex design", and it isn't unique to VW. Literally every carmaker on the planet has used brake calipers with integrated cable-operated handbrake, and have done so for a few decades now.
Either you have really crappy brake pads (e.g. "lasts forever" compound), the slide pins are seized, the calipers are broken (honestly, just replacing them with NEW parts is best - and, they aren't expensive), or the cables are shot (read: aren't pulling on the caliper hard enough.)

Checking the slide pins is simple. You don't even need to *remove* the calipers - just take the bolts out, and make sure that the pins move.
Cables are fairly inexpensive, and simple to replace.
Even new calipers are only about $80 each.

No point in trying to reinvent the wheel, when it's a lot easier to just fix the wheel.

 

[hskrdu]

Do the receipts show new cables? If not, the previous owner replacing the pads, rotors, calipers, slider pins, fluid, etc. wouldn't 't "fix" the problem, because they weren't the source. As I said above, it's common that the cables hit the ten year mark and need to be replaced, which may be why the p/o had perpetual requests to fix it (and someone not familiar with the system didn't spend a few minutes researching here).

 

[zimbodel]

It says,
DR Replace both rear parking brake cables - $988.22
Done in 2015.

Went back to shop afterwards again with complaint of burning smell in the rear. Never resolved.
Was never fixed, only bank account emptied.
Car was taken off the road 3 years later and stored.

Sounds to me if the brakes were partially engaged by default after the Flakes replaced the cables.

The usual Flakes at work.

 

[hskrdu]

Confused. $988.22? Is that just for parking brake cables? The non-heavy duty versions only cost $40 and it takes an hour to install.

The complaint after the service tells you that the install was incorrect. On top of that, some MkIV owners (more so in salty areas) might only get 5 years out of parking brake cables. The upgraded cables are relatively inexpensive and an easy job. As I said originally, that's the first place I'd start, and is not only an improvement, but may eliminate the cost of throwing parts at the rest of the system.

 

[zimbodel]

The Flakes charges enormous prices here. That was just for the Parking Brakes. That is why I am forced back to DIY. I saved enormous loads of thousands of dollars the last 3 years as a result.
I will get the cables as you mentioned previously. I just have to replace the tandem pump this weekend and then I will get to the parking brakes.

 

[Nuje]

OMG. Anyone who's charging almost $1K to swap out Mk4 parking brake cables needs to take a long look in the mirror and call the ***hole staring back at them a thief. I'd feel bad charging more than $100CAD, parts included ($25ea).

 

[TurboABA]

Quit your whining and troubleshoot and replace anything as required.
There's not much to the system, but you need all components to work properly.
Calipers\pistons\levers seize, sliders seize, pads\disks wear, cables stretch, cables snag, cables rust, etc.
Understand how the system works and figure out what part of it isn't working. Not that hard.... but it does require you to actually turn some wrenches and crawl under the vehicle. Lube, unseize, rebuild, adjust, replace components as required. I've got through a few cables of my 2010 and have had to unseize the calipers a few times..... just had to do the rear right one 2 weeks ago because the return spring couldn't overcome the resistance caused by all the rust on the pivot point of the lever.

 

[zimbodel]

Nule wrote "I'd feel bad charging more than $100CAD, parts included ($25ea)."

Right you are.
That is what happens if they realize the owner knows zip about cars. They charge what they think they can get away with. I had the same thing tried with me with my Mercedes Benz by the dealer.

I must have stepped on a flake it seems. The truth unfortunately is the truth, and it shines uncomfortable light when exposed. Cockroaches dont like light and usually guns for the cracks while flinging insults.
That is the way of the world.

Frank says it the best. Summed it up perfect.

 

[Stupendous60]

Quote "to conclude that nobody else can fix it" I could.
The best advice I ever recieved about figuring out and fixing anything is "You just have to be smarter than it is"