"while you're in there..." suspension bits..

[milktree]

Is there list of stuff you should replace when doing suspension work?

I'm about to swap out struts/springs.

On the Mk-IV it was recommended you swap out the strut's upper mount/bushing at the same time, as they tend to get soft/squishy.

when I did the shocks on my '04 Wagon I replaced the shock's upper mounts.

I can't remember what else I replaced as "wear items"

 

[pedroYUL]

Yep, just common sense to change strut mounts and bearings (sold separately).

But "while in there" is really to each person's taste. I did Alltrack springs, shocks, Audi LCA bushings, can't remember if I did struts as they looked pretty good, same for shocks. I love how the car handles now!

Also, as I was changing stuff I found one rear spring mount (lower) to be bad, and I wished I knew about all of that rubber. Rear springs have lower and upper rubber mounts.

 

[Mongler98]

While your in there usually only applies to rubber and wear items that are cheap. Depending on how hard it is to get to and how much $ your willin to shell out depending on your budget.
Imo. Only ever replace what is called for and what is broke.

 

[740GLE]

LCA is def worth upgrading, you're 90% there just may need to drop the subframe if you're a DSG

 

[pedroYUL]

Audi upgraded LCA rear bushing, same for 2015 Passat and GSW:

2015 NMS lift (suspension upgrade) DIY

Well, after much reading, hesitation, and then waiting for parts I was able to lift and firm up my 2015 Passat SE using: * H&R Tiguan lift springs 29037-1 * Bilstein B4 22-151056 Struts * Audi 81A-407-183 control arm big bushing Control arm bushing before pressing: New bushing in place. This...

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[740GLE]

Yeah it's impressive at the Parts bin cross shopping you can do with the NMS and other platforms.

 

[Cuzoe]

While you're in there suspension items... I recommend DCC, and strut mounts/bushings too.

 

[pedroYUL]

DCC Cuzoe?! ...I wouldn't have the patience and to tackle that

 

[Cuzoe]

It will cost you more patience than money I think. It was not exactly plug and play but I would almost for sure maybe do it again probably, haha.

 

[pedroYUL]

If it starts with a new BCM, I would hardly call that suspension work

 

[Cuzoe]

New module (DCC, J250), I think you can keep your old BCM but you will need new steering knuckles to fit the 55mm struts. If I may offer a word of advice to the OP... as a general rule it would be wise(r) and fiscally responsible to not follow my advice.

Strut bearings are the only thing I would always replace (cheap insurance against little noises), along with the one-time use hardware. Assuming you're replacing suspension as a maintenance item (and not just as a mod) I would replace the mounts. Otherwise I would replace them somewhere around every 30k personally. I probably wouldn't replace miscellaneous bushings unless you're at 60k+, want to upgrade, or have noticed wear.

 

[milktree]

Audi upgraded LCA rear bushing, same for 2015 Passat and GSW:

2015 NMS lift (suspension upgrade) DIY

Well, after much reading, hesitation, and then waiting for parts I was able to lift and firm up my 2015 Passat SE using: * H&R Tiguan lift springs 29037-1 * Bilstein B4 22-151056 Struts * Audi 81A-407-183 control arm big bushing Control arm bushing before pressing: New bushing in place. This...

forums.tdiclub.com

Audi TT rear LCA bushing is something I did in my MK-IV, and it was awesome.

Based on a lot of Internet Research® I came up with these three being interchangeable :

8S0-407-183-B
5Q0-407-183-L
81A-407-183

The linked web page suggests that they're not all the same! VW/Audi cross references are ... sometimes less than 100% helpful.

I bought 8S0-407-183-B; I'm pretty sure that's the one in the Audi TT RS and Audi TTS (therefore stiffest)

I'll post pictures.

 

[milktree]

Strut bearings are the only thing I would always replace (cheap insurance against little noises), along with the one-time use hardware. Assuming you're replacing suspension as a maintenance item (and not just as a mod) I would replace the mounts. Otherwise I would replace them somewhere around every 30k personally. I probably wouldn't replace miscellaneous bushings unless you're at 60k+, want to upgrade, or have noticed wear.

Car is at 82k+. What "miscellaneous bushings" are you thinking of?

My list so far:

LCA rear bushing (Audi TT)
Strut mount & bearing
Bilstein B6 dampers
Golf GTI springs (from a ’15 auto transmission GTI)
1" lift kit (I don't want to lower the car)
Audi TT rear lower spring pad.
All one-use hardware

I'm considering replacing the rear shock upper mounts, but not sure how important that is.

I don't want to raise the car, either, so I might mix and match the lift kit and the Audi TT spring pad to keep it level and not raised.

What does that leave?
- rear "swingarm" front bushings
- front anti-sway bar bushings
- rear spring upper mount/pad (do they wear out that fast?
- if I don't use the TT pads (came with the springs), do they wear out that fast?
- LCA front bushings
- front spring lower pads (do they wear out that fast?)

 

[Cuzoe]

The TT pads are intended to even the height front/back, ymmv since our car is torsion beam.

The miscellaneous items I was thinking of are LCA rear bushings (which you have), rear spring upper mounts (I haven't heard of any issues with these, although I replaced mine), and front spring pads (these are cheap enough that I would just replace them). I did not replace the rear spring upper pads. But I've had 9-ish suspension variations, and I'm not at 50k yet.

I'm running GTI springs front and rear and I don't think the car is noticeably lower than stock. Possibly a little but I would be shocked if it's an inch lower. You probably won't need the lift kit.

 

[nathanso]

What are the effects of using GTI springs in a Mk7 GSW?

 

[milktree]

What are the effects of using GTI springs in a Mk7 GSW?

They're stiffer. And a little shorter (I think, I haven't had the OEMs out to measure the free length yet.)

I think they'll lower the car by "some", but we'll see how much.

 

[nathanso]

They're stiffer. And a little shorter (I think, I haven't had the OEMs out to measure the free length yet.)

I think they'll lower the car by "some", but we'll see how much.

I'd be very interested in your part numbers used and your before/after fender arch heights. Mk7 GTI springs appear to be readily available as take-offs and I've long wanted to firm up my wagon's suspension without lowering the car more than 1in.

 

[Cuzoe]

I don't have measurements... I'll take some pics later though. I'm on GTI springs all around but I can't comment on what they would feel like as a singular suspension change. I paid something like $125 shipped for a full set-of take-offs with 8k-ish on them. Guy from another forum prepping his car for auto-x and track.

 

[milktree]

I don't have measurements... I'll take some pics later though. I'm on GTI springs all around but I can't comment on what they would feel like as a singular suspension change. I paid something like $125 shipped for a full set-of take-offs with 8k-ish on them. Guy from another forum prepping his car for auto-x and track.

Is yours is a short roof, or a long roof? What other suspension changes did you make?

The springs I got are from an auto-transmission GTI, which I assume are stiffer than the manual transmission springs. (based only on my assumption that an AT is heavier, and that VW specifies different springs for the MT and AT versions)

 

[Cuzoe]

Short roof, and I went with springs from an AT as well based on the same logic of weight, and not wanting my car to be lower.

My changes are a lot, haha... Audi aluminum subframe, Whiteline aluminum LCA's (added caster), GTI aluminum steering knuckles, Eurosport Camber inserts (they install into the factory strut mounts, add some camber while keeping the noise isolation), Audi S3 strut bearings (I would have been fine with stock, but the Audi's are cheaper, lower demand I guess), Neuspeed rear torsion bar, Eurosport front strut bar, Unibrace UBQ (don't know if this counts as suspension but if stiffened the car over uneven transitions, like curbs on a hill), and I retrofitted the DCC active damper system, running Bilstein B4 Damptronics.

 

[milktree]

Wow... that's... a lot. some of this makes me want to spend more money. (Some of it probably isn't for me)

My changes are a lot, haha... Audi aluminum subframe,

Is this just a weight difference, or does it change geometry? Junkard find?

Whiteline aluminum LCA's (added caster),

I assume this works by moving the ball joint (and therefore the entire knuckle and therefore wheel) forward, and outward.

How much does 2.5°-3° of added caster move the wheel forward?

Does the decreased camber have any negative effect on tire wear?

I've wanted more "self centering" steering characteristics, so added caster would be a bonus. It'd be nice if it could be done by moving the upper strut mount back a bit to keep the wheel in the same place. I don't really want to add negative camber (decrease camber?) because I don't really like the "stanced" look and it's a daily driver.

If this has no effect on tire wear, it might be in my future someday.

GTI aluminum steering knuckles,

Just for weight and access to GTI/R spec 55 mm struts, right?

Unibrace UBQ (don't know if this counts as suspension but if stiffened the car over uneven transitions, like curbs on a hill)

Oh! Does that make the car more comfortable, too? (less wibbly-wobbly twisty-turny) That's not on my "right now" list, but I'll probably put it on my "someday wishlist"


This thread is getting more and more expensive...

 

[Cuzoe]

That's why I don't recommend following my advice, haha..

The aluminum subframe is lighter (not much, about 6lbs), and should be stiffer, no objective way for me to test that but I don't know why else they would have made/spec'ed it for the S3. Dropping 6lbs of non-moving mass down low doesn't seem a worthy endeavor. It's gorgeous though, as seen in this thread.

My front wheels aren't noticeably forward at my ride height, it was noticeable when I was lower though (on B8's with H&R Sports). This post on GolfMk7 shows the wheel with the KTA262 arms installed. They are supposed to add 2.5 degrees caster, that poster said he got a little less. I'm running KTA252's which are supposed to add 2.0 degrees, so probably a little less as well. My wheels aren't as off center as his.

Correct... aluminum knuckles for 55mm DCC struts. They are lighter but I would not have replaced them for the weight savings alone. Ideally I would have went the GTI Clubsport S knuckles (for added camber) but the prices have gone way up. I got both GTI knuckles from a wrecker, something like $200 shipped.

I just like the feel of additional negative camber so that's why I went with the Eurosport Camber kit. I ran both the SuperPro and 034 fixed camber plates... both too harsh and too noisy for me (others have said theirs are silent, I'm skeptical). In any case, my additional camber is not impacting tire wear and isn't noticeable unless you're really, really looking for it. Stanced is not a word that could be used to describe it, at all.

All of my suspension mods were to make canyon driving more fun. My car will never see a track or auto-x. To that end, I added camber plates, lowered the car, raised it back up, various combinations of springs/struts/mounts etc... In the end I realized stock height and daily comfort outweigh everything else, so DCC was the ultimate solution. If I had gone DCC (or even realized it was possible) from the start, probably wouldn't have done anything to else to the suspension. Not to say I recommend DCC for others, but I'm not willing to live with even stock GTI stiffness for my daily. I'm in comfort mode 99% of the time.

 

[nathanso]

So, I take it GTI springs would not fit (at least) the rears of my Mk7 GSW?

 

[milktree]

So, I take it GTI springs would not fit (at least) the rears of my Mk7 GSW?

You're mistaken.

I intend to put GTI springs front and rear on my MK-7 Sportwagen, and I have no reason to think they won't fit.

What did you read to infer they wouldn't fit?

 

[nathanso]

You're mistaken.

I intend to put GTI springs front and rear on my MK-7 Sportwagen, and I have no reason to think they won't fit.

What did you read to infer they wouldn't fit?

I thought GTIs had rear IRS while GSWs had rear torsion beam suspensions and presumably different springs.

 

[Cuzoe]

You are correct about the torsion beam vs IRS, and the factory springs are different... but they WILL work. I'm running GTI springs front and rear. I do think the rear is a touch higher than the front (just enough to notice if looking for it, not enough to think something is wrong...which I don't mind). That might be closer to even on a long roof though.

There is also this older thread, which has some good info/experimentation. There are even some FTG measurements, about 1/2" drop on GTI springs.

 

[pedroYUL]

Or you can run Alltrack springs, like me and others. Those are also plentiful. They do raise both front and back, which is what I wanted.

 

[milktree]

I thought GTIs had rear IRS while GSWs had rear torsion beam suspensions and presumably different springs.

"different springs" is not the same as "incompatible springs"

 

[milktree]

Or you can run Alltrack springs, like me and others. Those are also plentiful. They do raise both front and back, which is what I wanted.

I want stiffer, but not lower, springs. That's what I'm aiming for. I don't want hopped up, or slammed, just more sporty.

 

[milktree]

My front wheels aren't noticeably forward at my ride height, it was noticeable when I was lower though (on B8's with H&R Sports). This post on GolfMk7 shows the wheel with the KTA262 arms installed.

Wow, that picture doesn't make me want to move the wheels forward for more caster, they look all shoved up toward the nose.

I'd much rather move the upper strut mount back by an inch to get the same caster change.