Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

<snip>

Anyway. I drive several hundred miles a week for work. My bigger fear, especially with winter weather, is getting in an accident and having either one of my cars totaled. I would HATE to try and attempt to settle with the insurance company based on the value of the TDI's right now.

We-All in same boat.

VW ~~~ show us the $$$$

 

[MichVW]

You sir are delusional if you think this is a true statement. The only thing VW has shown is they are trying to let the clock run. the goodwill program was the first start, after that what has happened? a small PR blrub by Fienstine? After that nothing.
If they truly were trying to make it right they'd be full disclosing everything they are submitting to CARB EPA about a potential fix.

They can let the clock run as long as they want I guess.... to the tune of $37,000 per day (DOJ lawsuit). In reality, it just makes them look bad as a company and does nothing to "save face" in the eyes of the public, current customers, and potential new customers. The longer this is dragged out, the less likely people will be to accept dealer incentives on New VWs as part of a compensation. Day by day, the company loses more credibility with the masses.

The only delusional people commenting on this thread (while not necessarily you) are those that feel there is still some sort of "fix" VW is going to throw on the table. One that will be a cost effective, satisfy the EPA, and the customer. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

[Cayman]

My bigger fear, especially with winter weather, is getting in an accident and having either one of my cars totaled. I would HATE to try and attempt to settle with the insurance company based on the value of the TDI's right now.

Yup, my 2013 with 17k miles on it was hit by an uninsured motorist in December and repaired ($3800). By law the insurance company has to provide relief to the affected owner (me) via a diminished value settlement, and therein lies the problem. I've been waiting for two months for the claim to be settled, all the while the value of the car continues to drop like a rock. This is costing me money, thanks VW

 

[kjclow]

Nothing new...but an interesting article about how GM knew that VW couldn't pass California emissions: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidki...pass-california-emissions-tests/#48ade9772e54

I trust Lutz's comments about as much as any politician. I especially like the comment about GM not being able to get the mileage or performance equal to VW. Wasn't the Cruze diesel advertised as getting more miles per tank (of course through a slightly larger tank) at equal mileage with similar hp and torque numbers? Found the numbers:

According to Edmunds:
Jetta diesel sedan/Cruze diesel
Tank 14.5gal/15.6gal
city mpg 31/27
hwy mpg 46/46
torque 236/258
hp 150/148

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

They can let the clock run as long as they want I guess.... to the tune of $37,000 per day (DOJ lawsuit). In reality, it just makes them look bad as a company and does nothing to "save face" in the eyes of the public, current customers, and potential new customers. The longer this is dragged out, the less likely people will be to accept dealer incentives on New VWs as part of a compensation. Day by day, the company loses more credibility with the masses.

The only delusional people commenting on this thread (while not necessarily you) are those that feel there is still some sort of "fix" VW is going to throw on the table. One that will be a cost effective, satisfy the EPA, and the customer. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

*yep*

 

[kitarkus]

I trust Lutz's comments about as much as any politician. I especially like the comment about GM not being able to get the mileage or performance equal to VW. Wasn't the Cruze diesel advertised as getting more miles per tank (of course through a slightly larger tank) at equal mileage with similar hp and torque numbers? Found the numbers:

According to Edmunds:
Jetta diesel sedan/Cruze diesel
Tank 14.5gal/15.6gal
city mpg 31/27
hwy mpg 46/46
torque 236/258
hp 150/148

Wasn't he stating that he couldn't create a DIESEL vehicle that met emissions and mimicked VW's mileage/performance??

 

[kjclow]

The cars that I am thinking about
- 2017 Chevy Bolt (what about cross-country trips?)
- 2016 Chevy Volt (do I want a sedan?)
- 2016 Audi A3 Sportback e-tron (too expensive)
- 2016 Lexus CT 200h (gets reviews for being wimpy)
- 2017 VW Alltrack Golf Sportwagen (this seems about right)

If you're going to include the GSW alltrack, then I would add the redesigned 17 Tiguan.

No interest in the Bolt, A3, or Lexus. The new Kia hybrid SUV looks interesting but the looks of their sedans really turns me off to their whole car line, and their sister's too.

 

[kjclow]

If the cars are forced off the road I'd say that's on VW for cheating the system not the EPA for enforcing environmental issues. That's just how I feel, everyone has and is entitled to their own opinion.

I agree that VW is at fault for cheating but the EPA has to accept a portion of the blame since they do no follow up testing. Can you imagine if the FDA did not do any of their own testing on new drugs being released?

 

[mjLyco]

Fun facts:

• It has been 628 days since the VWU study was published.
• It has been 152 days since EPA/CARB sent notices of violation and the deiselgate story broke.
• Deiselgate itself has spanned 6 calendar months.
• VW's last official update was 5 weeks ago. (1/12/16)
• 3/02/16 - EPA/CARB have to approved/reject VW's 3.0 TDI plan by this date
• 3/19/16 - Exactly 1/2 a year (by days) since dieselgate came to light

Swift resolution my butt.

 

[mjLyco]

I agree that VW is at fault for cheating but the EPA has to accept a portion of the blame since they do no follow up testing. Can you imagine if the FDA did not do any of their own testing on new drugs being released?

um... I don't think they do? I though the FDA just reviews drug company's clinical trial data and sets standards on how to collect the data and for how long.

"It is the responsibility of the company seeking approval to market a drug to conduct laboratory and animal tests on the safety and effectiveness of a proposed new drug and then to submit that information to FDA for review by CDER physicians, statisticians, chemists, pharmacologists, and other scientist." http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/SpecialFeatures/ucm279676.htm

 

[JasonCz]

I agree that VW is at fault for cheating but the EPA has to accept a portion of the blame since they do no follow up testing. Can you imagine if the FDA did not do any of their own testing on new drugs being released?

That's hilarious!

It's like saying your college professor is partially to blame for not catching you when you cheated on your exam.

 

[kitarkus]

I agree that VW is at fault for cheating but the EPA has to accept a portion of the blame since they do no follow up testing. Can you imagine if the FDA did not do any of their own testing on new drugs being released?

I disagree. I cannot think of a regulated industry where the regulator spends its time & money regularly or randomly performing scientific testing to be certain that all manufacturers are within compliance. Most regulators have strict penalties which inhibit a manufacturer from deviating from the required rules. Call it an 'honor system'. A purported penalty is thought to be sufficient to ward off a generally mindful company....and the penalty stiff enough to police the manufacturers. In virtually all cases the regulator could not possibly afford to self police. There simply isn't enough money or manpower to constantly micromanage the infinite arenas for manufacturer compliance. It may happen in some small ways in certain industries....but is generally not the case. It has always been this way and always will. I don't suppose that you wish to pay increased taxes in an effort to be certain that all products that you buy are regularly tested?

Hell....even state regulatory agencies who oversee professionally licensed individuals seldom actually audit.....at least nothing beyond checking to see that continuing education was completed or licenses have been renewed. If a formal complaint is filed, the regulatory agency has an obligation to perform due diligence.

The FDA does a meaningful job at keeping our food safe and do 'some' regular and random testing. I just saw a 60 Minutes piece about the fact that the MAJORITY of olive oil in this country is lacking OLIVE OIL...substituted with cheap (and occasionally dangerous) filler oils....and has for years! This was found out by ethical olive oil producers who could not compete with the cheaters....cheaters were not caught by a regulatory agency.

If you wish to blame the EPA for VW's transgressions you are free to do so. I do not agree. VW has brazenly committed a mass fraud and were caught doing so. VW should have thought about their obligations to customers, employees, and investors. VW chose to be arrogant and greedy...and by nearly all accounts VW continues to exhibit their poor character.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I agree that VW is at fault for cheating but the EPA has to accept a portion of the blame since they do no follow up testing. Can you imagine if the FDA did not do any of their own testing on new drugs being released?

EPA has zero testing in Oklahoma and ~~ 19 other states.

The EPA all knowing-powerful-genius-pencil-heads did NOT even find the VW cheat devise.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I disagree. I cannot think of a regulated industry where the regulator spends its time & money regularly or randomly performing scientific testing to be certain that all manufacturers are within compliance. Most regulators have strict penalties which inhibit a manufacturer from deviating from the required rules. Call it an 'honor system'. A purported penalty is thought to be sufficient to ward off a generally.

VW called the bluff on the EPA's honor system. And here we are.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

VW chose to be arrogant and greedy...and by nearly all accounts VW continues to exhibit their poor character.

Darn right on counts

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

. It has always been this way and always will. I don't suppose that you wish to pay increased taxes in an effort to be certain that all products that you buy are regularly tested?

Respectfully,


EPA is already sucking tax dollars out the nose. Problem is the EPA is not working at effective results

 

[romad]

The federal government doesn't have the resources to track down and deport illegal immigrants that have committed multiple felonies. They aren't going to be showing up at my door to take my car. Even if they did...I would flip them the keys and give exactly zero f***s about the agents doing their job. They wouldn't have to do their job if VW hadn't committed fraud on a massive scale and sold me a car that didn't meet federal emissions requirements.

That is because those illegals drive around on false driver licenses, carry false ID (or none), give out false addresses, and falsify other things like criminals on the run.

Probably 99.44% of TDI drivers carry valid licenses with their actual names, properly register their vehicles to include their addresses, etc. So is it any wonder the Feds would rather come after normal US citizens rather then actually have to do the real work of finding felons, terrorists, etc?

 

[romad]

Last I read there is a "per day" fine associated with the DOJ lawsuit. No reall reason for VW to drag their feet..

Isn't it per vehicle per day? Maybe they are trying to enlarge the "pool" of vehicles?

 

[kitarkus]

I think I posted on the previous page....that VW's actions will forever change emissions testing and regulation...for the stricter. I had said that if you don't like the looming stricter regs and rules....you can blame VW. Well....away we go http://autoweek.com/article/vw-dies...-emissions-doping-tests-wake-vw-diesel-crisis

Yup....already happening. Don't blame the EPA for killing diesel....blame VW http://news.yahoo.com/small-diesel-cars-seen-vulnerable-post-vw-scandal-150307042--finance.html

I also got a kick out of this....for Crown Volkswagen (dealer) in Lawrence, KS....when you click on their "clean diesel facts" link....you get this http://www.crownmotorsvw.com/Volkswagen-TDI?p=Volkswagen-TDI

 

[roostre]

Sir, what do you think ~~ means?

New paraghaph?
New Idea?
New sentence?
APPROX?
Break in all of above?

Take your choice.

It doesn’t mean any of those in any standard form of punctuation, unless you can point out a reference that shows it does.

I was wondering if it was an internet abbreviation or had some other urban slang meaning that the younger generation uses that I was unaware of.

I was curious and asked a valid question which you obviously took offense from and I apologize for that.

Based on your reply, I’m now thinking it is something you made up, that only you use.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

That is because those illegals drive around on false driver licenses, carry false ID (or none), give out false addresses, and falsify other things like criminals on the run.

Probably 99.44% of TDI drivers carry valid licenses with their actual names, properly register their vehicles to include their addresses, etc. So is it any wonder the Feds would rather come after normal US citizens rather then actually have to do the real work of finding felons, terrorists, etc?

You're correct. I just don't see it coming to that though. If it does...VW will be in a world of $h1t. If they think they have it bad now...they won't know what hit them if they let it get that far. At this point though...nothing would really surprise me. I don't think they could have handled this any worse if they had actually set out with a "let's see how bad we can **** this up" mission plan.

Edit: I'm going to stick with the position that their handling of this is more driven by them trying to avoid criminal prosecution than it is about them resolving the situation for anyone other than VW executives. Unless the DOJ gives them a pass (not likely, as they've been such d-bags)...they'll just keep dragging this along for the next 'x' months (or years).

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Not to mention...your pool of prospective buyers would be reduced to those that live in states with no testing.

Forgive for my second bite out of the apple.

Just looked at the local VW dealer with a rather large-new used inventory.

He had (5) five used diesel VWs ~~ they were priced (asking price) well above KBB ~~ one similar car to mine had 80,000 miles and was 2 years older.

All in all ~~ one owner, clean, garage kept, low mileage, CARFAX, autos generally sell quickly, and maybe at a good or premium price. Keeping in mind that there is zero competition from new VW car dealers

i. e. There are no 2016 VW diesels to compete with ~~ for a customer.

 

[JohnNS]

Hi Kymonshine.

My response to your particular post is not 100% direct at you

In short, it makes it easier for readers when the poster uses more spaces between thoughts-idea-etc.

Like this being the fourth line in in a post

Then the fifth line in a post

Well, you get the idea

Thanks

I notice his post was edited, editing removes the formatting. Cab be a pain to go back and edit or may not have noticed.

 

[MrSprdSheet]

Yup....already happening. Don't blame the EPA for killing diesel....blame VW http://news.yahoo.com/small-diesel-cars-seen-vulnerable-post-vw-scandal-150307042--finance.html

There are at least a couple auto sector people in Merkle's cabinet. Dobrindt is one of them. What VW is used to is the German "Federal Motor Transport Authority" approving emissions on cars, and then the whole EU being beholden to respect the findings of the FMTA. The point is that making noise about "Doping" tests, and then putting the doper in control of the testing, is a bad idea.

Jay Ramey, of AW: " Europe has been far more affected by the diesel scandal, as the number of VW Automotive Group vehicles that contain emissions-cheating software tops 8 million compared to 482,000 in the U.S."

Most of those 11mm had to meet the Euro 5 spec, which allows about 6X more NOx output, than U.S. tier 2 bin 5.

CARB has to come out and approve/reject the V6 TDI fixes, by 2/23. Correct? I hate these dry news spells.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

It doesn’t mean any of those in any standard form of punctuation, unless you can point out a reference that shows it does.

I was wondering if it was an internet abbreviation or had some other urban slang meaning that the younger generation uses that I was unaware of.

I was curious and asked a valid question which you obviously took offense from and I apologize for that.

Based on your reply, I’m now thinking it is something you made up, that only you use.

Correct ~~ I madfe it up ~~ as far as I know youngsters do not use this insane "stuff."

roostre ~~ I took no real offence ~~ maybe a little annoyed ~~ no insult intended ~~ none taken.

Thanks in advance for your understanding

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I notice his post was edited, editing removes the formatting. Cab be a pain to go back and edit or may not have noticed.

I am 100% guilty of all this complicated "stuff."

Please forgive.

 

[roostre]

.....
Thanks in advance for your understanding

No, problem. I accept individual style.

I frequently use ..... when quoting posts to indicate I have deleted parts not applicable to my reply. I don’t know if this is standard punctuation but I have seen it done before. I also sometimes incorrectly place periods outside of quotation marks when it looks better to me that way.

I’m one of easier types to get along with on this forum.

 

[kitarkus]

Don’t forget what has happened so far:
November 20, 2015 VW submits 2.0L TDI recall proposal to EPA/CARB
VW continues to submit additional information
November 25, 2015 EPA/CARB are not satisfied with proposal
December 15, 2015 VW requests additional time
January 4, 2016 US Justice Department files suit against VW on behalf of EPA
January 12, 2016 EPA/CARB rejects proposal and the request for additional time
Dr. Claire Lewicki (from “Days of Thunder” 1990) said it best, before being permanently banned.

Roostre posted this nice timeline yesterday...see above.

This article http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/03/carb-20-days-confirm-vw-3-liter-tdi-emission-fix/ states that CARB has 20 BUSINESS days (from Feb 3rd I believe) to approve/disapprove the proposed 3.0 fix.

 

[romad]

Originally Posted by 2015vwgolfdiesel

Sir, what do you think ~~ means?

New paraghaph?
New Idea?
New sentence?
APPROX?
Break in all of above?

Take your choice.


It doesn’t mean any of those in any standard form of punctuation, unless you can point out a reference that shows it does.

I was wondering if it was an internet abbreviation or had some other urban slang meaning that the younger generation uses that I was unaware of.

I was curious and asked a valid question which you obviously took offense from and I apologize for that.

Based on your reply, I’m now thinking it is something you made up, that only you use.

I was curious also about the tilde usage. It is NOT a regular form of punctuation and I did NOT find it in lists of printer's symbols. I then searched to see what Wikipedia said about the tilde: it is usually a diacritical mark to denote a change in pronunciation but can also be used to denote spaces, similar to the en and em dashes.

 

[romad]

No, problem. I accept individual style.

I frequently use ..... when quoting posts to indicate I have deleted parts not applicable to my reply. I don’t know if this is standard punctuation but I have seen it done before. I also sometimes incorrectly place periods outside of quotation marks when it looks better to me that way.

I’m one of easier types to get along with on this forum.

What you should use is the ellipsis: ...