IQ is way off after sitting 1.81, 1.88, -1.86, -1.88

DougInFL · Jul 16, 2015

2001 ALH, 5-speed, 244K

The problem is first start up of the day it runs like crap...shaking like running on 2-cylinders. VCDS readings cold are 1.81, 1.88, -1.86, -1.88.
She puffs alot of smoke.

Thought the initial problem was the 205 nozzles that might have been plugged, so installed a set of 357 nozzles that I ultra-sonic cleaned prior to install. Same issue with lots of smoke and rough idle.

After I let it idle for 5-7 minutes, it smooths out and the VCDS readings are .19, 1.88, -1.36, -.73

When reading the posts here, I decided to swap the crank sensor from my wifes 2002 TDI. No change.

Other info: It can sit for about 1/2 hr after running for 5-10 miles, and after restarting it's running rough for a minute or two....slightly reving the engine it clears back up and runs smooth.

When the engine is warning up, i see on VCDS that the temp is climing to normal temp. Is there another temp (or coolant) sensor that could cause this issue?

Footnote: When the car is running smooth, she runs like a scalded dog....fast and furious.

Another thing I may mention is when it's running smooth at idle, VCDS shows 2.2-2.6 mg/str , .30 liter/hr

One other thing I tested was looking for an air/vacuum leak on the return fuel line just prior to the 'T' at filter. Had to pump the miti-vac to 27/in. prior to fuel would start flowing.....minimal bubbles. Filter is new.

Any feedback would be great......Thanks in advance....

UhOh · Jul 17, 2015

Looks like the ECU is working hard to balance out the fueling. Those IQ numbers are being pushed near the max of +2/-2.

Injector issues? (if this is a grease car then this might be more likely)
IP issues? (I'm thinking less likely)
Compression issues? (any past TB "events?")
Cam issues? (any past TB "events?

IQ seems like it could be bumped up. You're running [slightly, with the 357s] larger nozzles. This wouldn't, however, explain the big deviation spread.

Does it ONLY run rough when cold?

DougInFL · Jul 17, 2015

This car does run on WVO but I always purge back to diesel at least 5 miles prior to my destination. About 10K ago, I did the timing belt and all related components, sent the head to Franko6 for freshening up, installed new piston rings, new rod bearings and bolts, new oil pump, and new turbo. Cam was fine but installed new lifters from Franko6.

It runs rough in the mornings....let it idle for about 7 minutes before driving. After sitting for about 1/2 hour (while hot), it runs rough for a minute or two.

BobnOH · Jul 17, 2015

There are several temp sensors in these cars. Probably worth checking them all, cold then hot.
Here's a reference-
A4 TDI engine measuring blocks/groups

DougInFL · Jul 17, 2015

Ok, the current update: Cleaned the 10-pin connector, no change. Swapped #2 nozzle into a good-known extra body, no change. Swapped #2 with #4 injector, no change.

I did notice though when bleeding the air from the injectors that #2 did not have as much pressure under the rag containing the spray.

Is my IP on it's way out?

Any liquid remedy that I can try? The other day I poured 16oz. of Diesel Kleen into my 1/2 full fuel tank.

DougInFL · Jul 17, 2015

Thanks BobnOH....will check into that next...

DougInFL · Jul 17, 2015

Read through all the settings on VCDS...found MAF was alittle high so swapped out the one from the wifes car....same reading 385-420.

Adjusted (hammer mod) and raised the IQ (base 32768) from 2.2-2.6 to (base 32768) which now fluxuates between 5.4-7.8

She now sprung a coolant leak which I need to fix before anymore testing....When it rains, it pours...keeping my head up ;-)

DougInFL · Jul 17, 2015

Latest update: Fixed the coolant leak at heater hose....took for a test drive and it produced about 5psi boost. Pull over, shut down and re-started. On the way back home, boost spiked at 25psi for a brief moment (alway maxed at 19psi)...blew alot of smoke on that pull.

Came back home and did a compression test with a cheap HP tool...results:
#1 550
#2 175
#3 570
#4 580

All I can think is WOW....I can't believe this....

Thanks again for all the input and advice offered here

Yreka · Jul 17, 2015

Doh! RIP #2

Dimitri16V · Jul 17, 2015

DougInFL said:
Latest update: Fixed the coolant leak at heater hose....took for a test drive and it produced about 5psi boost. Pull over, shut down and re-started. On the way back home, boost spiked at 25psi for a brief moment (alway maxed at 19psi)...blew alot of smoke on that pull.

Came back home and did a compression test with a cheap HP tool...results:
#1 550
#2 175
#3 570
#4 580

All I can think is WOW....I can't believe this....

Thanks again for all the input and advice offered here

You may have stuck rings on that weak cylinder

DougInFL · Jul 17, 2015

Dimitri16V , I was thinking that or the OEM rings that I installed 10k ago went south on me. Going to look in the intake manifold tomorrow (which was clean 10k ago also)...and if it's still clean I was thinking about spraying a fine mist of distilled water in the intake while the engine is warm.

Can't hurt, right?

DougInFL · Jul 18, 2015

Ok, so today I sprayed a fine mist of distilled water into the "?" elbow once warmed up....about 16oz. over a 2hr period. Noticed a small amout of oil with air coming from intake plastic elbow (post turbo) and didn't think much of it seeing turbo was replaced 10k ago. While running I brought my IQ back down to 2.4-2.6 where it idled best with minimal smoke.

After 2 hours of running, I take her for a spin....first pull on my 1/2 mile venture seemed great. Turned around to head back home and 1st to second good at 3k RPM, second to third...OMG..she kept climbing in RPM...I'm thinking run-away and dropped clutch while in third gear. Never looked if it re-lined, but the sound was a big boom and she shut down. Prior to towing it back in my garage, I noticed the innercooler plastic side had exploded from the IC and oil dripping. Got her in the shop, and she fired up after 5 seconds of cranking...no lower or bottom noises which I expected. With innercooler still in fragments I hooked up my VCDS to get some readings. The IQ readings a day ago were 1.81, 1.88, -1.86, -1.88....now they are .05, .00, -.96, .89

She was ideling like Singer sewing machine.....Then I thought I would do another compression test. Those results were 480, 200, 480, 480.

I know cylinder 2 is low, but came up some from the other day....other cylinders have come down...thinking sticky piston rings might be an issue.

May have to way things out here....I know for sure I would NEVER BUY A MERLETT CHRA unit agiain....Box said made in UK....no other specifics.....10K and always used T-6.

Any thoughts from the forum on where to find a good turbo and innercooler would be great!!!!

super1 · Jul 18, 2015

Vw

DougInFL said:
Ok, so today I sprayed a fine mist of distilled water into the "?" elbow once warmed up....about 16oz. over a 2hr period. Noticed a small amout of oil with air coming from intake plastic elbow (post turbo) and didn't think much of it seeing turbo was replaced 10k ago. While running I brought my IQ back down to 2.4-2.6 where it idled best with minimal smoke.

After 2 hours of running, I take her for a spin....first pull on my 1/2 mile venture seemed great. Turned around to head back home and 1st to second good at 3k RPM, second to third...OMG..she kept climbing in RPM...I'm thinking run-away and dropped clutch while in third gear. Never looked if it re-lined, but the sound was a big boom and she shut down. Prior to towing it back in my garage, I noticed the innercooler plastic side had exploded from the IC and oil dripping. Got her in the shop, and she fired up after 5 seconds of cranking...no lower or bottom noises which I expected. With innercooler still in fragments I hooked up my VCDS to get some readings. The IQ readings a day ago were 1.81, 1.88, -1.86, -1.88....now they are .05, .00, -.96, .89

She was ideling like Singer sewing machine.....Then I thought I would do another compression test. Those results were 480, 200, 480, 480.

I know cylinder 2 is low, but came up some from the other day....other cylinders have come down...thinking sticky piston rings might be an issue.

May have to way things out here....I know for sure I would NEVER BUY A MERLETT CHRA unit agiain....Box said made in UK....no other specifics.....10K and always used T-6.

Any thoughts from the forum on where to find a good turbo and innercooler would be great!!!!

I have an Intercooler for sale

turbovan+tdi · Jul 19, 2015

Until you fix the low cylinder, you're spinning your wheels and wasting time.

Do a leakdown test to help pinpoint the issue or squirt some oil down the injector or GP hole, if the compression comes up, rings, if not, valves.

UhOh · Jul 19, 2015

turbovan+tdi said:
Until you fix the low cylinder, you're spinning your wheels and wasting time.

Do a leakdown test to help pinpoint the issue or squirt some oil down the injector or GP hole, if the compression comes up, rings, if not, valves.

What if he's got ring gaps lining up? Not sure how probable this is, but I have heard of it happening. Not a clue as to how to correct this w/o opening the can or worms up.

turbovan+tdi · Jul 19, 2015

UhOh said:
What if he's got ring gaps lining up? Not sure how probable this is, but I have heard of it happening. Not a clue as to how to correct this w/o opening the can or worms up.

Even if they lined up, he wouldn't be loosing 200+ psi of compression and the oil will still help if its rings, assuming nothing is melted.

UhOh · Jul 19, 2015

turbovan+tdi said:
Even if they lined up, he wouldn't be loosing 200+ psi of compression and the oil will still help if its rings, assuming nothing is melted.

OK. Yeah, though just a point for consideration on lower compression.

I'm tending to think that isn't a stuck ring(s) issue. Why only ONE cylinder?

turbovan+tdi · Jul 19, 2015

UhOh said:
OK. Yeah, though just a point for consideration on lower compression.

I'm tending to think that isn't a stuck ring(s) issue. Why only ONE cylinder?

Could have damaged a ring when installing them, I did that ONCE!

Maybe a leaking valve or that one cylinder could have an injector problem and it melted the piston or damaged the rings.

UhOh · Jul 19, 2015

turbovan+tdi said:
Could have damaged a ring when installing them, I did that ONCE!

Maybe a leaking valve or that one cylinder could have an injector problem and it melted the piston or damaged the rings.

Would it be possible to lose this kind of compression through a bad injector seal? One would think one would hear this, but... I suppose that it could be more than a single issue.

BTW - This is a great thread.

turbovan+tdi · Jul 19, 2015

UhOh said:
Would it be possible to lose this kind of compression through a bad injector seal? One would think one would hear this, but... I suppose that it could be more than a single issue.

BTW - This is a great thread.

It would but he'd be complaining of a weird engine noise,

Would probably sound like "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"!

DougInFL · Jul 21, 2015

Latest update: I took the valve cover off to inspect lobes....cam and all followers looked good while rotating, etc. Pulled all GPs again and slowly poured around 2oz. of T-6 into #2. Briefly cranked starter several times then poured another 1oz. in and let it sit. During this time I swapped the IC from the wifes car into mine...and watched some nascar.

After several hours I cranked it over to extract the oil and proceed to do a compression test on #2 again....same reading of 200 like the day before.

The next day I take for a 30 mile spin...seemed to be running ok. Kept it under 3k just because I didn't feel like calling AAA if things went south again. I did still notice smoke in the headlight behind me after taking off from traffic lights. Oh, before installing the IC, I drilled and tapped a hole for a 10-32 machine screw at lowest point in IC to drain if/when needed.

Today I started the car and she stumbled at first then let it run at 1,000-1,100 rpm for about 1/2 minute. During that time it stumbled a few more times....while stumbling I could hear a light ticking noise, then would clear up. Checked oil level and that was fine.

Shut her down and thought I would type this to see if anyone here had some input.

Thanks in advance....

turbovan+tdi · Jul 21, 2015

So if the compression didn't come up, you have a leaking valve.

KillyMcGee · Jul 21, 2015

turbovan+tdi said:
So if the compression didn't come up, you have a leaking valve.

How can you tell this vs a bent rod?

turbovan+tdi · Jul 21, 2015

KillyMcGee said:
How can you tell this vs a bent rod?

Right, I did say that earlier but based on past experience, 200+ psi is a really, really bent rod,

But I could be wrong.

This was his first test results-

#1 550
#2 175
#3 570
#4 580

KillyMcGee · Jul 21, 2015

turbovan+tdi said:
Right, I did say that earlier but based on passed experience, 200+ psi is a really, really bent rod, But I could be wrong.

This was his first test results-

Just curious, troubleshooting an engine myself and trying to learn here.

Drivbiwire · Jul 21, 2015

DougInFL said:
This car does run on WVO but I always purge back to diesel at least 5 miles prior to my destination. About 10K ago, I did the timing belt and all related components, sent the head to Franko6 for freshening up, installed new piston rings, new rod bearings and bolts, new oil pump, and new turbo. Cam was fine but installed new lifters from Franko6.

It runs rough in the mornings....let it idle for about 7 minutes before driving. After sitting for about 1/2 hour (while hot), it runs rough for a minute or two.

Grease car...You guys never learn...

Stop wasting time, pull the head and be ready to make some major repairs.

My bet, scored cylinder #2, and damage on the others (jammed/gummed up compression rings).

All cylinders are likely scored due to WVO contamination of the ring lands...

This is why cars like this will never come into my shop... You can't afford to fix them once they have been ruined by WVO/SVO.

Anyway, The give away is the excessive compression (you should only be at 495-510 cranking PSI if the engine had 100,000 miles on the pistons and rings).

Since they are new, you've already managed to gum them up. The problem is now you scored them since the goo aka WVO has jammed the rings and now the rings are scoring with every stroke of the piston.

The engine more than likely is not salvageable at this point.

IQ is way off after sitting 1.81, 1.88, -1.86, -1.88

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran