ALH TDI Decarbonization...Any effect on MPG's?

josh8loop · Oct 20, 2011

dieselfuel said:
Andy,

Go to Whitbread's GTG November 5th. I'll let you drive my TDI before and after I "de-carbonize" it. Then you tell me if there's a difference.

I will admit one thing: It may be actually cleaning out the cat. converter, since I know I have some clogging. And, it possibly may also be cleaning the turbo, too.

Anyhow, there is a difference with my TDi, after a treatment.

To each his own....

DF, I'm with ya!

Like most, I don't have the time to do a tear down and all to verify it's doing something. Most of us are extremely honed in on how our vehicles run and normal sounds etc that they have aswell as normal performance. Small changes are easily discerned. I can't offer proof yet, so take it for what it's worth.

BTW, when I first started doing the water mist decarb I noticed sticking vanes in the turbo, and they are completely free now after half dozen treatments over the last few mths. I don't have any other thing to attribute it to other than the decarbonization at this point.

..

AndyBees · Oct 20, 2011

.........the more I read, the more I'm reminded of the unfamous introductory remarks of the late Billy Mays!

I've never disagreed that such a procedure doesn't decarbon the combustion chamber! I have only thrown into the discussion questions relating to the "what ifs" compared to the short and long term benefits.

-dislodged carbon . does not all go out via the exhaust valve exit, some is blasted around the circumference of the top of the piston and down into the lands of the rings grit/grinding the cylinder walls and scuffing the pistons.

-dislodged carbon . that may come loose from the Intake Ports of the head could possibly be large enough to do damage if it lands in the right spot....piston to valve clearance is very very close.

-mistying per the video . many folks make mistakes, what if someone goofs and accidently dumps in a gulp of water that hydrolocks the engine resulting in a bent rod?

-being anal vs being common sense (honed in on the sounds of your engine) . if you listen closely enough you may hear the ghosts that are all around you. Do the sounds dictate dumping in some water to provide a cure (the Snake Oil)?

-Benefits gone farther down . unplugged CATs, loosened up "sticky" Vanes in the Turbo. The sticky part of the Sticky Vanes is far removed from where the Steam of a misting job would go! Maybe the folks that avocate the Chemical Turbo Vane System Clean should start misting.........just saying!

I'd like to hear from those who have 300k, 400k or even over 500k miles on their TDIs. Did they have to do a water mist on regular and routine basis to get over the hump.

My point is, the risks of the "universe" of those reading this Thread that may want to try the procedure far out-weigh the short and long term benefits. Gees! We have folks posting that don't have a clue where the Injector Pump is located. But, they can certainly find the black pipe at the EGR based on the video and, well .....just imagine!

Sure, I've did the water thingy 40 years ago on old gassers with a carb! The benefits, if any, were short term! Generally, changing the spark plugs to a colder range stopped the pinging (pre-ignition).

For those who want to dump (mist) water into their $2000 and up valued TDI engine and risk a screw-up, go ahead!

volmaniac · Oct 20, 2011

Andy - I have some sympathy, and some taste for you being the (can't you guess my name)'s advocate, no matter how much they want you off of their cloud.

dieselfuel · Oct 20, 2011

Andy just needs some attention, I guess. I'm willing to back up my findings, but Andy never mentions it in his last post. Just more non-sense.

I don't understand why people waste their time on a thread they think is BS. If you don't like what you read, move on. I guess they need the attention...

I apologize to the thread for being an enabler to the attention seekers..... ;>)

AndyBees · Oct 20, 2011

Well, I'll do this much...........delete everything that I've said in this Thread, including this post, and then let it take it's course! I'll let this post hang here for a few hours and then it, as well as all the rest, will be gone! Of course, those that quoted me in their post(s) will be stuck with that info unless they do an edit!

I'm not interested one bit in being an attention seeker! I like to provide helpful comments but I totally disagree with the long term benefits vs the risks (just an opinion, like the OP mostly indicated by the "not sure" comments in the Thread starter post as well as other posts he made)! Pretty simple to me!

manual_tranny · Oct 20, 2011

Andybees, you are one of the most helpful guys on the site. Anyone who says otherwise is living under a rock!!!!

manual_tranny · Oct 20, 2011

dieselfuel said:
Andy just needs some attention, I guess. I'm willing to back up my findings, but Andy never mentions it in his last post. Just more non-sense.

I don't understand why people waste their time on a thread they think is BS. If you don't like what you read, move on. I guess they need the attention...

I apologize to the thread for being an enabler to the attention seekers..... ;>)

Yeah, what was he thinking?

I've seen Andy in person and I don't remember him needing to ask for attention, people are drawn to other smart interesting folks; they don't need to cry for attention.. (sorry Andy that I didn't have time to introduce myself at fest!!!)

volmaniac · Oct 20, 2011

AndyBees said:
Well ............. I've got to think about this!

So, what happens if a chunk of that Crud (carbon/oil mix) just inside the Intake Ports of the head slabbs off and lands on a piston outside the combustion chamber and just under a hot Exhaust Valve? .........bent rod/damaged valve?

What happens to all that carbon (small particles) that gets driven down around the pistons to and past the compression rings (blow-by)....... is that stuff scuffing the pistons and cylinder walls? Is the water vapor/mix that's in the blow-by creating an acid mix that may have long term damage affects on the bearings, oiling system, etc.?

So, my smooth idling all original engine at almost 300k miles would benefit from a dose of water misting into the Intake while idling (up to temp engine of course)?

Not that I am unfamiliar with water injection, however, I'll wait to see the the long term results.

AndyBees said:
Well, that's the good thing about this Forum.........alternate views on a subject, procedure, point, etc.

I sure would hate to hear that someone accidently dumped in too much water by mistake or accident and .....well, trashing their engine.

Carbon will always be an issue with a diesel engine........as one poster stated, a new engine will have carbon build-up 500 miles.

I've cleaned several Intake Manifolds. Taking them off and installing them is very ify. The curd build-up on the ports in the Head is very flakey....that stuff can do lots of damage if lands on top of a piston at the point it will make contact with a valve!

Well as I previously stated, water misting could result in some of that flakey stuff ....well, flaking off!

EDIT: I think it's very interesting to see that the vast majority of those following this Thread have been members four years or less......no gurus chiming in!

I really think the jury is still out as to the long term benefits! In fact, right now, I'm leaning toward questioning what the long term damage may be!

AndyBees said:
Hey .................. Josh! You need to go back and read my post real close......... I did not say Intake! I said,....."Intake Ports of the head," big difference! How many Intakes have you removed, cleaned, etc.? Did you take a look at the PORTS of the HEAD after removing the Intake Manifold? Those Ports will have "flakey" crud on them all the way into the Intake Valves and down to the Valve Seats! The Crud is not thick like in the EGR area of the Intake Manifold! The reason it is Flakey is because of the heat!

How many folks have cleaned those PORTS? It is a very difficult endeavor! You have to make sure the Valve is closed on the PORT you are working on. Otherwise, that Crud will end up in the cylinder........... I have a custom made scraper, custom vacuum attachment, mirror with special light, etc., that I use to CUSTOM clean the INTAKE PORTS of the HEAD.... Just as a point in fact, as soon as the Intake bolts are all out and you "break loose" the intake & gasket, some of that Flakey stuff comes loose! where does it go?

Also, for those who have "removed and cleaned" an Intake Manifold, how sure are you that it is 100% clean ........nothing hid inside where you cannot see just ready to flake off? Just asking!

I noticed in the YouTube clip that there was more going in than just mist ........ what was that stuff you jarred off the inside of the black pipe? What were those droplets dripping out as the mist was being sprayed in?

My neighbor ended up with 3 bent rods when his 5-cylinder diesel Kabota Tractor sucked in some water! ......... just saying to all you Newbies, if your engine isn't performing properly, don't turn to Snake Oil! It will come back to haunt you!

Did you notice what you said in the first sentence of Post # 76, "Not sure ................ "

So, does anyone want to go down that road? And, if someone screwed up their engine doing Decarbonization using water mist, would they admit it?.........just saying!

The jury is still out in my opinion!

AndyBees said:
.........the more I read, the more I'm reminded of the unfamous introductory remarks of the late Billy Mays!

I've never disagreed that such a procedure doesn't decarbon the combustion chamber! I have only thrown into the discussion questions relating to the "what ifs" compared to the short and long term benefits.

-dislodged carbon . does not all go out via the exhaust valve exit, some is blasted around the circumference of the top of the piston and down into the lands of the rings grit/grinding the cylinder walls and scuffing the pistons.

-dislodged carbon . that may come loose from the Intake Ports of the head could possibly be large enough to do damage if it lands in the right spot....piston to valve clearance is very very close.

-mistying per the video . many folks make mistakes, what if someone goofs and accidently dumps in a gulp of water that hydrolocks the engine resulting in a bent rod?

-being anal vs being common sense (honed in on the sounds of your engine) . if you listen closely enough you may hear the ghosts that are all around you. Do the sounds dictate dumping in some water to provide a cure (the Snake Oil)?

-Benefits gone farther down . unplugged CATs, loosened up "sticky" Vanes in the Turbo. The sticky part of the Sticky Vanes is far removed from where the Steam of a misting job would go! Maybe the folks that avocate the Chemical Turbo Vane System Clean should start misting.........just saying!

I'd like to hear from those who have 300k, 400k or even over 500k miles on their TDIs. Did they have to do a water mist on regular and routine basis to get over the hump.

My point is, the risks of the "universe" of those reading this Thread that may want to try the procedure far out-weigh the short and long term benefits. Gees! We have folks posting that don't have a clue where the Injector Pump is located. But, they can certainly find the black pipe at the EGR based on the video and, well .....just imagine!

Sure, I've did the water thingy 40 years ago on old gassers with a carb! The benefits, if any, were short term! Generally, changing the spark plugs to a colder range stopped the pinging (pre-ignition).

For those who want to dump (mist) water into their $2000 and up valued TDI engine and risk a screw-up, go ahead!

AndyBees said:
Well, I'll do this much...........delete everything that I've said in this Thread, including this post, and then let it take it's course! I'll let this post hang here for a few hours and then it, as well as all the rest, will be gone! Of course, those that quoted me in their post(s) will be stuck with that info unless they do an edit!

I'm not interested one bit in being an attention seeker! I like to provide helpful comments but I totally disagree with the long term benefits vs the risks (just an opinion, like the OP mostly indicated by the "not sure" comments in the Thread starter post as well as other posts he made)! Pretty simple to me!

figured out how to use multiquote!

Andy, please no need to erase anything! This is a forum for exchange of ideas, and folks like you with your experience are absolutely priceless when it comes to an exchange of information! THANK YOU!

To those trying this, I hope it works well with no ill effects. However, I think Andy Bees has very valid points and concerns. Caveat emptor.

B100 · Oct 20, 2011

AndyBees said:
Well, I'll do this much...........delete everything that I've said in this Thread, including this post, and then let it take it's course! I'll let this post hang here for a few hours and then it, as well as all the rest, will be gone! Of course, those that quoted me in their post(s) will be stuck with that info unless they do an edit!

I'm not interested one bit in being an attention seeker! I like to provide helpful comments but I totally disagree with the long term benefits vs the risks (just an opinion, like the OP mostly indicated by the "not sure" comments in the Thread starter post as well as other posts he made)! Pretty simple to me!

Why do you care what other people think? Your posts here are helpful and promote better understanding of our TDIs. No need or reason to remove them - in my opinion. On the water torture... oh damn, an earthquake!

Okay, no damage done, just some violent shaking.

I have squirted water into the intake on my motorcycles (old R80, and newer R1150), and have observed the results with a borescope type of tool. The result was removal of carbon buildup. Not as perfectly clean as I have made them when I pulled heads and used chemical soak and scouring, but still - an observable difference. As far as engine performance, sure, maybe a bit smoother, hard to tell. But less pinging for sure (on spark-ignition engines).

Still, I'm surprised people would do this on their TDIs and not make an effort to observe whether the treatment made a visible difference. And with such narrow tolerances in our combustion chambers, I think there's prudent reason for concern over carbon chunks jamming a valve.

AndyBees · Oct 20, 2011

My hat is off!

Gees! I had to make a quick trip to my aluminum welder, and now, here are all these comments!

Well, looks like about all of my Posts have been Quoted, therefore it would be fruitless to start deleting now.

As many of you may have observed, since about a week before the Fest, I've been on here (the club) more than usual commenting (as Fred said at the Fest, some seem to live on the club, I'm one), helping, doing research for a few folks, made photos and posted for a few folks, responding to PMs for assistance that are obviously not on the board, etc.

Anyway, my Conversion project http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=276798 has been on hold all this time (personal story) which left me with lots of free time to just web surf, etc., when not baby sitting two lovely grandchildren, Emma and Eli! Actually, I had all but lost interest in the project to the point that I have stayed away from the garage day after day!

So, hopefully, my interest will be sparked with the aluminum welded parts (Intercooler related) and you won't see much of me outside the Conversion Threads.

Pun intended --- earlier today I got a call for an Intake cleaning job on an '03 ALH that I've done maintenance on over the last few years! Maybe I should go ahead and do a decarbonization while at it!

I do apologize to josh8loop for highjacking his Thread! My hat is off!

josh8loop · Oct 22, 2011

AndyBees said:
.........the more I read, the more I'm reminded of the unfamous introductory remarks of the late Billy Mays!

I've never disagreed that such a procedure doesn't decarbon the combustion chamber! I have only thrown into the discussion questions relating to the "what ifs" compared to the short and long term benefits.

-dislodged carbon . does not all go out via the exhaust valve exit, some is blasted around the circumference of the top of the piston and down into the lands of the rings grit/grinding the cylinder walls and scuffing the pistons.

-dislodged carbon . that may come loose from the Intake Ports of the head could possibly be large enough to do damage if it lands in the right spot....piston to valve clearance is very very close.

-mistying per the video . many folks make mistakes, what if someone goofs and accidently dumps in a gulp of water that hydrolocks the engine resulting in a bent rod?

-being anal vs being common sense (honed in on the sounds of your engine) . if you listen closely enough you may hear the ghosts that are all around you. Do the sounds dictate dumping in some water to provide a cure (the Snake Oil)?

-Benefits gone farther down . unplugged CATs, loosened up "sticky" Vanes in the Turbo. The sticky part of the Sticky Vanes is far removed from where the Steam of a misting job would go! Maybe the folks that avocate the Chemical Turbo Vane System Clean should start misting.........just saying!

I'd like to hear from those who have 300k, 400k or even over 500k miles on their TDIs. Did they have to do a water mist on regular and routine basis to get over the hump.

My point is, the risks of the "universe" of those reading this Thread that may want to try the procedure far out-weigh the short and long term benefits. Gees! We have folks posting that don't have a clue where the Injector Pump is located. But, they can certainly find the black pipe at the EGR based on the video and, well .....just imagine!

Sure, I've did the water thingy 40 years ago on old gassers with a carb! The benefits, if any, were short term! Generally, changing the spark plugs to a colder range stopped the pinging (pre-ignition).

For those who want to dump (mist) water into their $2000 and up valued TDI engine and risk a screw-up, go ahead!

Andy,

As far as dislodged carbon, we haven't heard of any problems from our water injection counterparts that this is an issue-and they use lots more water than this. The video was made to show exactly how I've done it over six times now, and I have not had any problems. If someone deviates from the video instructions and dumps tons of liquid water though then that's on them.

These instructions are not any more perilous than the instructions that show how to replace the high pressure head seal on an injection pump. It seems that your replies have are taken a turn towards personal attack. Most of us are not here for that type of behaviour. I've tried to hold my tongue after being bashed over things like wording and let things simmer down before coming to a conclusion on this since I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but it's hard to tell with comments like this one?....

"if you listen closely enough you may hear the ghosts that are all around you. Do the sounds dictate dumping in some water to provide a cure (the Snake Oil)?"

or

"....... indicated by the "not sure" comments in the Thread starter post as well as other posts he made)! Pretty simple to me. "

I am positive I can go back and quote some comments you have made that are similar to the "not sure" tonality-please don't bash me over mine. I appreciate the warnings-I feel comfortable taking this risk on my vehicle, but it is good to make sure others know of the potential risks too. I have noticed benefits from doing this to my engine ranging from smoother idle/acceleration to less sticky VNT vanes, and for me they outweigh the possible consequences. The fact is that I cannot prove that it won't do damage(although I've done it 6 times, and a few others have done it with no ill effects) to the engine and you cannot prove that it will. I appreciate your warnings but am convinced the ones relating to carbon flaking off/breaking off are unfounded-but that's just my opinion.

..

josh8loop · Oct 22, 2011

AndyBees said:
.........-Benefits gone farther down . unplugged CATs, loosened up "sticky" Vanes in the Turbo. The sticky part of the Sticky Vanes is far removed from where the Steam of a misting job would go! Maybe the folks that avocate the Chemical Turbo Vane System Clean should start misting.........just saying!

One would gather that the mechanism through which the carbon is removed is by a water-gas-shift reaction. Steam, air, high temperatures, and carbon are the ingredients. Once the carbon is removed from the combustion chamber steam will exit the engine directly through the turbo and undergo a water gas shift reaction removing additional carbon buildup.

..

ocshaman · Oct 22, 2011

josh8loop said:
Andy,

As far as dislodged carbon, we haven't heard of any problems from our water injection counterparts that this is an issue-and they use lots more water than this.

..

I'm gonna stay out of the rest of this post, but wanted to touch on this. Fluid measured in microns, and injecting at only high loads under pressure, should not be used to "insert verb here" using a spray bottle to inject fluid at idle. Devil's Own suggests changing oil after 500-1000 miles because of all of the stuff that comes out of the engine and gets into the oil. Also make sure that you get the car up to temperature so that all of the water that got into the oil when doing this gets burned out of it. Check your oil cap to make sure that you got it all.

ss04vv · Oct 23, 2011

ss04vv said:
Guys next week I'll be cleaning my intake manifold and all intake hoses (oil in there bigtime from CCV) as well as the intake ports on the heads. Then I was thinking about either watering or seafoaming through the intake. Wondering if, and if so, which groups, you'd like to see plotted via my VAG-COM to determine the effectiveness of
A.) the Intake cleaning procedure
b.) Watering/seafoaming

It's not the same as borescoping, but might provide better info then just seeing how shiny it made everything.

Also, as a question, would the steam do anything to the turbo post combustion in terms of cleaning? I'm not pulling my turbo to confirm either way, I just thought I'd get an opinion.

I've offered to settle the debate guys, I'm VAG-COM equipped, and will log whatever you guys ask before I clean my intake manifold/intake port in my head, then again after that is cleaned, then one more time after a 'demisting' or 'seafoaming' OR after one than the other.

ocshaman · Oct 23, 2011

Interested in what you find out, and what to log. Interested in doing it before and after a water/meth install.

dieselfuel · Oct 24, 2011

ss04vv,

DO NOT mist with anything other than water. Seafoam will act like a fuel and could cause a "run-on" condition.

VAg-Com won't show anything useful considering misting.

Do you have a cat. converter installed on your TDI?

Eventually, I'll be getiing an up-graded downpipe. I'll see if the misting changes anything with the cat removed. More than likely, it won't be until spring.

josh8loop · Oct 25, 2011

ss04vv said:
I've offered to settle the debate guys, I'm VAG-COM equipped, and will log whatever you guys ask before I clean my intake manifold/intake port in my head, then again after that is cleaned, then one more time after a 'demisting' or 'seafoaming' OR after one than the other.

OK, looks like your post slipped by my eyes-sorry been busy the last few days. Just a little back ground on your vehicle so we know a bit more about it's condition. How many miles on it, what type and how old are the injectors, do you have a tune, do you have a bigger turbo, or exhaust modifications, have you run WVO or any other funky fuels, what is your typical MPG's?
.......time to look at your user profile etc to glean some additional info....

..

josh8loop · Oct 25, 2011

dieselfuel said:
ss04vv,

DO NOT mist with anything other than water. Seafoam will act like a fuel and could cause a "run-on" condition.

VAg-Com won't show anything useful considering misting.

Do you have a cat. converter installed on your TDI?

Eventually, I'll be getiing an up-graded downpipe. I'll see if the misting changes anything with the cat removed. More than likely, it won't be until spring.

I am wondering if logging Block 13 before a few water mist decarbonizations are done, and then do it afterwords to see if there is any difference. If it cleans deposits from the injector tips and the inside of the cylinder/top of cylinder perhaps we would notice by a change in block 13 readings. Would be a simple thing to do. We would get the most beneficial information from a bone stock engine with over 100K miles on it that has all original injectors etc.

..

dieselfuel · Oct 26, 2011

Josh,

I wondered about the same thing: Cleaning injector nozzles. I know I , for one, have more carbon going through the system than a stock engine (normal running).

I'll know more after I get a new dp and get the cat removed.

1963gp · Nov 2, 2011

is this the bent rod club?????????????? I drive the dang thing like I stole it to keep the carbon out.

dieselfuel · Nov 3, 2011

So, Snow Performance makes a bent rod kit...?

Give it a rest, will ya?

josh8loop · Nov 3, 2011

funny!

..

1963gp · Nov 3, 2011

Hey I do not want any snow in my intake.

AndyBees · Nov 3, 2011

Questions? (sort of breaking my promise to Josh)

So, the water is a mist when it goes into the Intake, not fog or a high humid laden cloud of air? Right? It's being sucked in by Vacuum not unlike a gasser engine! Right? So, if it is a mist, it's basically fine water droplets. Right?

Now, as those fine water droplets go down the Intake, past the Intake Valves and into the cylinders their temperature begins to rise. Right? So, next the Intake Stroke of the engine becomes a Compression stroke. Right?

Then, at what point in the Compression stroke does the temperature of those water droplets go above the boiling point?

Sure, under compression, the boiling point is a little higher than 212 degrees fahrenheit, but I feel certain the flash to steam will be well below the TDC point of the piston.

Question, could that result in a bent rod? .........Remember, one of the other three pistons is finishing a Combustion stroke, thus lots of thrust upwards on the piston that's in the Compression stroke with the water droplets that have just flashed to steam.

(one piston is Intaking near the bottom of the stroke, one is Exhausting near the top of the stroke and one is finishing Combustion near the bottom of the stroke [the one with the water droplets is in the Compression stroke nearing TDC])

Seems I read somewhere that water increases by 1600 to 1800 times its volume when it flashes into steam!

Check out Post # 2 in this Thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=270799

Sbeghan · Nov 3, 2011

There is no way that the quantity of water going into the intake as mist droplets would be able to create enough pressure to bend a rod when they vaporize. Water at 500 psi boils around 230-240C. What will probably happen is that the water vaporizes as the air heats up from the compression and then that vapor condenses in a thin layer on the cooler surfaces of the cylinder. During the power stroke the water that has condensed on the surfaces flash vaporizes and erodes at carbon deposits. But as for misting, no, you can't bend rods.

1963gp · Nov 4, 2011

I am not convinced. Why take a chance a well maintained and properly driven tdi will not have any issues with carbon and if the intake or ports clog or turbo vanes sick then the items should be removed and properly cleaned. I would hate to see someone trash an engine by overdoing it. these were not designed to be steam engines they are diesel locomotives. Just my opinion. you guys do what ever you want.

B100 · Nov 4, 2011

Does anyone yet have images of carbonized TDI combustion chambers before, and then after, this water torture? Let's see some evidence to support the claims.

josh8loop · Nov 4, 2011

B100 said:
Does anyone yet have images of carbonized TDI combustion chambers before, and then after, this water torture? Let's see some evidence to support the claims.

No, no one has any TDI specific images for you! Don't believe it if you don't want to-that's your perogative.

..

josh8loop · Nov 4, 2011

Sbeghan said:
There is no way that the quantity of water going into the intake as mist droplets would be able to create enough pressure to bend a rod when they vaporize. Water at 500 psi boils around 230-240C. What will probably happen is that the water vaporizes as the air heats up from the compression and then that vapor condenses in a thin layer on the cooler surfaces of the cylinder. During the power stroke the water that has condensed on the surfaces flash vaporizes and erodes at carbon deposits. But as for misting, no, you can't bend rods.

Exactly! Thank you for your input. In reality, the volume of total fluid going into the cylinder with the fuel plus the water vapor would be similar to the total volume of fuel injected if someone were to install large injector nozzles on their engine alone. Most guys don't bend rods from larger injectors do they?...!!

..

josh8loop · Nov 4, 2011

AndyBees said:
Question, could that result in a bent rod?

Answer-NO, no more than someone installing larger nozzles in their car.

You are correct, water does expand some where around 1600-1800 times when turned to steam. Water when it vaporizes requires heat in this case heat from the cylinder contents so it reduces the pressure slightly to some extent by removing heat from the cylinder gasses. The pressure in the cylinder does go up slightly only as a result of adding a small amount of water volume.

Like I mentioned above the cylinder pressures would only go up a small amount based on the total liquid volume added to the cylinder(either injected by fuel injectors, or misted). If you inject lots of fuel into the cylinder or inject lots of water into the cylinder, it will raise cylinder pressures.

..

ALH TDI Decarbonization...Any effect on MPG's?

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