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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old March 19th, 2010, 22:42   #1
AndyBees
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Default ALH TDI engine transplant into '84 Vanagon

2002 ALH TDI engine transplant into an '84 Vanagon, non-Westy!

Edit: Starting today (6/12/11), I am going to remove and repost photos. I'll be using the TDIClub photo gallery. So, bear with me if you see a post with the photo missing. Once I get all the changes made, I'll delete this edit. (Dang, it has been over a year and I still don't have all the photos reposted.........bear with me.)

Okay guys, followers, dudes, etc., I've finally got to where my project is beginning to move.

First, I want to provide a little background about my thoughts on doing an engine transplant. I had the thought over 25 years ago. In 1984, my wife and I set our sights on doing a trip to Alaska. I commenced looking for a Bay bus to make the trip. However, to me those old VW Vans were so under powered it was pathetic. So, my thought was to do an engine upgrade. I did not have a clue what would work or where to start.

Anyway, while looking and shopping around for a Bay, I stumbled onto an '83 non-Westy 2.0 Vanagon, last of the Air-cooled, with only 49k miles on it (a bit better than the Bay with respect to power)! In April of 1985, I purchased it and in June of '86 we headed north to Alaska on a 28 day trip. At the time, I would never have dreamed I'd go back 6 more times over the next 18 years (1986-2003 the year of the last trip) in the same Vanagon. Wow!

So, from those early days until now, an engine upgrade had been on my mind. However, I did not have the time or know where to start. The idea and thoughts stayed on back burner until 2006. At that time, I was planning for retirement in '08. I began to see that my dream project could possibly begin to happen!

In late summer of '07, I purchased the '84 Wasser Boxer Vanagon. Over the next several months, I did a lot of research and purchased pieces parts here and there. I ran into some road blocks. Some of those road blocks turned out to be beneficial, in that they caused me to look in another direction to accomplish a task. And, of course, there were times I had to put the project on back burner. I have made a few mistakes along the way. I've met a lot of good folks here as well as over at the Samba trying to do similar projects.

So, with this Thread, I, like a few others, would like to document the Conversion as it progresses. I've already posted a few photos, etc., in a few other Threads. I may post some of those same photos again here.

At some point I will acknowledge all those who have contributed to the project one way or another.

I may add posts from time-to-time to explain or bring the project up-to-date.

Engine background: It is from a 2002 Jetta (MrGutWrench's wreck, sorry) with the complete wiring harness, including ignition and key, as well as all the other necessary items to bring the Vanagon into the 21st century, if that's possible!

Tranny background: It is out of an '80 (born date: 11/28/79) with the DK code having the 4.57 Ring & Pinion. I rebuilt it myself, adding a .77 4th and a 1.14 3rd. I'm using a bell housing from an '83 Diesel tranny! (engine will lay over on a 50 degree angle.

This photo is of the Diesel bell housing and 1.6 diesel oil pan (two views)




This photo is of the Diesel bell housing and 1.9 oil pan unmodified (three views)




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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; December 31st, 2013 at 21:42. Reason: To explain about re-posting photos, etc.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 00:43   #2
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I'm glad to see this project/conversion here on the forum. I have an 83' Aircooled vanagon and will be putting an ALH into it, basically following your example here. My project probably won't happen for a few years, but I plan on it being our family vehicle.

One strong recommendation I have is instead of using the Ignition switch, key, and instrument cluster from the donor car, send the ECU out and have the immobilizer deleted from the software(I assume that's why you have the ignition switch and key from the 2002 Jetta) . That's what I did with my Audi. It makes it very simple to wire up and get running with just a couple of signal wires from the stock Vanagon's (in my case Audi) ignition switch. I sent mine out to vwmikel (tdtuning.com), but about any tuner should be able to do this. You've probably already thought of this as I've seen you have done a lot of research on this project.

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Old March 20th, 2010, 08:39   #3
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Yeah, Jon, since I have the Ignition & Key, I decided to go with the "two" key system.

Go over to theSamba.com and look at the "Stolen" vehicle list.......... amazing! So, this will provide extra theft protection!
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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 21:30   #4
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In my opinion, any engine conversion in a VW Bus/Vanagon should not be started without considering the status and gearing of the transmission.

I got my rebuild kit and gears from Weddle Industries ... Steve Jones was the contact!

091 Tranny DK code (4.57 R&P), Gear carrier housing with new .77 4th and 1.14 3rd. I picked up the tranny for $95.00. It had a broken syncro ring at 4th gear, badly worn 3rd/4th shifting fork and chipped reverse sliding gear.


Another view of the Gear Carrier and gears. Notice the gear slector rods at the end of the carrier (second photo down). They are slotted for the shifting levers. In the photo below, the rod going across the top is for the reverse shifter. Follow it over and down, notice that reverse gear is not installed yet. It is installed as the Gear Carrier is lowered into the tranny case .... black tape works well to hold it in place. The tape is fairly easy to fish out. The gear on the bottom shaft closest to the pinion gear is 1st and to the left is the 40 tooth reverse gear and then 2nd gear is next. You can see the new 1.14 3rd on to the left and 4th is barely visible. The reverse sliding gear must be set when it is in neutral to clear both 2nd gear and the 40 tooth reverse gear (minimum distance of .020 inch to 2nd gear, touchy touchy!)


This is a view from the shifter end of the Gear Carrier. Notice the three shifting rods (1st & 2nd, 3rd & 4th, and reverse). The top rod is obviously bent a little. That rod shifts 3rd and 4th. The outward bend was probably due to the driver(s) trying to hold the shifter in 4th gear .. thus the badly worn shifter fork and broken syncro ring!


Here is the "pile" of tranny pieces parts. No, the coaster wheels do not go inside! Notice the two pilot shafts. The one on the right is from a Diesel tranny... it is shorter by about 22mm. The white plastic container is a meat tray from the supermarket. It cleans up nice and makes for a very good peices parts holder!(recyling at it's best, another use for an item). And, you can see a paper carton from bottle water or soft drink case to the left with parts in it....... and newspaper on the floor!


This photo is with the gear carrier housing and gearshift housing installed as well as the R&P and pilot shaft (from Diesel tranny). Scroll the photo to the left and you will see the gear slector at the extreme right ..... notice, this one is from an Air Cooled model, the shifter lever is in a different location than the 1984 and newer trannys


This photo is looking directly into the end of the tranny without the Ring Gear in place.


The new 4th and 3rd gears can be seen in the foreground. Looking at the right shaft of gears, going back/down, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, reverse and 1st gears in that order.


Another view from a different angle. Also, you can see the old 4th and 3rd gears in the foreground. In back view, from left to right is 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. The smaller gear that matches Reverse is not in this photo.


This is a close-up of the smaller match to the Reverse gear. This is a NEW gear which is part of the upgrade/rebuild.


This is an out of focus close-up of the Reverse Gear on the idler shaft....the above gear can be seen on the end of the shaft. The gear on the other end can be seen inside the tranny case in the photo above looking into the end of the tranny without the Ring Gear.
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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; October 28th, 2011 at 20:36. Reason: Clarification and re-post photos
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Old March 20th, 2010, 21:41   #5
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This is a graph prepared in Excel to show the "expected" RPMs and MPH of each gear when shifting. The graph shows that each gear is taken to a slightly higher RPM. An allowance for MPH drop when shifting can also be seen. Since a Vanagon was never designed for speed, I based my desires on 65 MPH cruising speed at roughly 2850 RPMs. This is accomplished using 205/75/15 tires that rotate approximately 744 revolutions in one mile! The same tires on 14 inch rims will raise the RPMs to about 2950 at 65 MPH.

EDIT: I'm presently (2/1/13) running 215/75/15 tires which rotate approximately 728 revolutions in one mile. Based on GPS for speed and ScanGauge for RPMs, at 65 mph, the engine is rotating at approximately 2840 rpms.

This graph and some of the tranny photos are also posted in Paul Manning's Microbus Thread in this Forum.

I'll add photos and comments as the project progresses!

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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; February 1st, 2013 at 19:37. Reason: Replace photos, edit info about tire size, rpms, mph, etc.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 23:29   #6
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I checked out the samba, that's crazy. I don't think too much about theft here, looks like I may start thinking about it. I like the dual key setup now . Would it be possible to shorten a gas input shaft to the shorter length? Are the splines in the same location and the pilot portion of the gasser's input shaft just longer? Sorry just one more question (for now ). Where on the 091 trans is the tranny code located? I would like to know if my 83' has the 4.57 R&P (probably not).

Edit: thanks for the added info on post #4. Mine is indeed the DK code trans woo hoo.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 10:26   #7
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Default Answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjordan11
I checked out the samba, that's crazy. I don't think too much about theft here, looks like I may start thinking about it. I like the dual key setup now . Would it be possible to shorten a gas transaxle to the shorter length? Are the splines in the same location and the pilot portion of the gasser's input shaft just longer? Sorry just one more question (for now ). Where on the 091 trans is the tranny code located? I would like to know if my 83' has the 4.57 R&P (probably not).
Yep, there are folks that want these vintage VWs (probably to re-sell).

The Gasser Pilot shaft (input shaft) can be cut off at the end (pilot bearing end). The splines are the same!

The Tranny code is on the bottom of the tranny (stamped), as well as the manufacture date. It's on right side adjacent to the axle stub (same side as the shifter lever).

If your gasser is an Air-cooled the Tranny will be 4.57 R&P ratio, unless a previous ower changed it out (whole tranny). For the most part, the innards of the AC trannys will not fit in the later models (I think some things will interchange with the diesel tranns).

I'll post a list of codes with corresponding R&P ratios!
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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; March 22nd, 2010 at 18:24.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 22:39   #8
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Default Vanagon Tranny Codes to help with conversion decisions

Vanagon Gear Ratios! This should be helpful! Below this chart is info where to find the CODE on your tranny.


#28 there is mine ^^^^ Weddle now offers a 0.75 and 0.73 4th gear.

Where to find the CODE on your tranny!

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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; February 1st, 2013 at 19:39. Reason: Re-post photos, clarification
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Old March 21st, 2010, 23:32   #9
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There is some really good information here Andy thank you very much. I'll definitely be following this thread closely.

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Old March 28th, 2010, 20:22   #10
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While my oil pan mods are being done, I've continued to finalize the wiring and associated notes & diagrams.

Also, I recently had the single mass 215mm flywheel re-surfaced that come with the 1.6 Diesel engine in Vanagons. TDIclub member RSXSR says he uses this very stock flywheel/clutch setup and it works fine in his Westy!

Here are photos of the flywheel. You can see that my fingers rubbed "dust" I never noticed when taking the photos.

EDIT: Skip over to page 62, Post #917 and page 63, Post #937 to see narrative and pics about replacing this 215mm flywheel with a G60 228mm flywheel.



Two additional views below!



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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; February 1st, 2013 at 19:43. Reason: Replace photos, add comment about G60 flywheel
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Old March 28th, 2010, 21:15   #11
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These are the Fuse Panels that I will be using. The panel on the left has 10 circuits that will be hot when the "TDI System" ignition is "on." I will use 9 of those circuits. The Fuse Panel on the right has room for 6 circuits of which I will use 3 of them. It will always be hot.

EDIT: April 12, 2012 - I did not use the fuse panel on the right! I used the fuse panel from the top of the TDI battery in place of the one there on the right in the photo below. The larger circuits from the battery top fuse panel were needed anyway. Info on the use of the fuse panel from the top of the battery can be seen on pages 28 - 30! EDIT: The Fuse panel on the right was not used.


This is the TDI Fuse Panel...... looks like a mess! I feel certain that my finished product will look much better all tucked under the back seat.

If you will look real close, near the center of those wires, you will see a large red wire with a lilac stripe up it and then to the left of it is a small blue wire ... Yep, that's a srew-up during assembly. The large blue wire to the right and behind the taped bundle was supposed to have been inserted in place of the smaller blue wire! Wow! IIRC, the large wire carries current to the ECU! These (blue wires) are "feeds" from the 109 Relay. This come out of MrGutWrench's car!.... luckily, no sign of overload!


Another view of the TDI Fuse Panel
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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

Last edited by AndyBees; August 7th, 2014 at 22:22. Reason: Re-post photos, clarification
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Old March 31st, 2010, 15:37   #12
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Power steering in the non-Westy '84, would you do it? I have the rack/pinion and of course there is a pump on the TDI engine!

So, anyone have thoughts on this?

EDIT: Skip over to page 79, post #1183 for pics and info of the power steering install. I used the power steering pump as mounted on the ALH engine accessory bracket. I also used the Vanagon power steering pump reservoir.
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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.

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Old March 31st, 2010, 20:42   #13
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Hi Andy, I know with my air-cooled 83' without power steering does just fine, little to no effort. Your 205 width tires are about 10mm wider than my current tires, but I wouldn't think that would cause much more steering effort. I'm sure you've thought of this too, but you'd also gain a little more efficiency too .

With power steering it would eliminate any arm fatigue, I guess it would just depend on personal preference. I personally wouldn't have power steering in a non-westy van.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 09:31   #14
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Andy, That is your call. My 82 Diesel Westy came with manual steering. Even with the 16's the Vanagon is still easy to manuever. I like things simple. No power anything. If your vanagon is already fitted with power steering, it would make sense to connect to the TDI steering pump you have, but I would not go to the trouble to swap out a good manual rack and running hoses just because your engine already had the pump.

Wait till you see my upgraded hydraulic engine mounts. Hopefully will have them completed this weekend. It was a lot more work than I anticipated, but they are looking awsome. If they actually improve the resonance, it will be well worth the time. I tried to modify the existing diesel mount brackets, but ended up cutting them off of the carrier bars and fabricating from scratch. mark
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 21:04   #15
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Well, I like things simple too! The manual rack and pinion on my Vanagon seem to be just fine. The previous owner replaced a good number of items on the Vanagon, including the rack boots. It had new rotors & pads on the front and new rear drums and shoes, as well as new inside axle boots. The dude was having issues with the fuel injection and just up and put the vehicle on Ebay. I got it for $630.00 and a long tow from Martinsburg, W.V. All it needed was an Ox sensor, temp sensor and a new T-stat. Runs fine, but the TDI engine will make it awesome.
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2000 Jetta, 350k miles
'84 Vanagon ALH TDI engine (35+ MPGs consistently) Malone Stage 1 tune. Road trip to Alaska summer '14, 11k miles round trip
VWs 41 years, VW diesels 34 years, ALH TDIs 12 years.
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