Help, Dealer claims I overheated DSG by blocking grill with foam

I don't know if VW keeps intra-dealer records, but if it were me, I would check the codes with VCDS, and if you have indication of an over temp, I would play dumb and take it to another dealer.

Ol'Rattler said:

When running in really cold temps truckers block off their grills routinely with good results. Should we do it? Sure, in very cold weather when the engine has a hard time reaching operating temp, but be prepared to unblock the grill immediately if the temps warm up.

I knew a guy with a little gasser pickup that thought he wanted to be like the big boys and blocked off his grill, got stuck in traffic and severely over heated his engine.

Click to expand...

Please show me the science fro blocking the grills, not something you heard. If it really works and doesn't cause any problem, why wouldn't it be included?

The DSG's control unit, known as the Mechatronics unit, monitors ATF temps closely, and even has a clutch/shift strategy to deal with extra high temps, should they occur. It will also flag a DTC if there was an overheat, and if it is sustained will reduce engine power and even warn the driver.

So the dealer saying your trans overheated is just bogus. However, they can have issues if you get stuck in snow and repeatedly hammer on the go pedal. DSGs do not like slippy conditions.

Back to your origional post, if the dealer is implying that the belly pan is dimpled from overheating and they are refering to the nose dampining cubes on the pan I call malarkey! Those cubes are hollow and dimple all the time.

My DSG leaked and it appeared it was leaking along the seam, in reality it was a bad O-ring on the filter housing and fluid naturally followed the seam where the case was split. Once cleaned up , it was clear it was the o-ring at the filter that was leaking.


Get someone to run VCDS and see if there are any faults. If there are no fault codes, I suspect you did NOT damage the DSG, that instead you have a fluid leak, the fluid leak that I had and several others have had was at the o-ring, and that the low fluid level is what resulted in the DSG lagging. (My fluid level dropped from the leak and that caused me some shift issues)

I would :

1) Pull codes and get some folks on here to interprit them or go to Ross-Tech's wiki
2) Clean the DSG down and find the leak source
3) Fix the leak source and repeat the DSG service to set the level correct

Did the dealer do the 40k DSG service? If so I suspect a pinched O ring which caused a leak.

DogParkGuy said:

Please show me the science fro blocking the grills, not something you heard. If it really works and doesn't cause any problem, why wouldn't it be included?

Click to expand...

If the auto mfgs gave you everything now you would not upgrade cars as often... here is the "science"

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079678_active-shutter-grille-vents-how-they-help-improve-mpg

They claim however it is done for aerodynamics, its my position that in the case of diesels... it's IATs... 75-95*f (maybe higher is OK) for fuel economy. I recently got my best commute mileage on a tank where avg ambients were in the 50's. Never got that before the grille block. Before it was 3~5mpg less

steve05ram360 said:

If the auto mfgs gave you everything now you would not upgrade cars as often... here is the "science"

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079678_active-shutter-grille-vents-how-they-help-improve-mpg

They claim however it is done for aerodynamics, its my position that in the case of diesels... it's IATs... 75-95*f (maybe higher is OK) for fuel economy. I recently got my best commute mileage on a tank where avg ambients were in the 50's. Never got that before the grille block. Before it was 3~5mpg less

Click to expand...

Again, no science. The approach would be to drive 500 Jettas with the grill blocked and 500 without blocking and compare results after three months. The drivers would not know which grills are blocked. That would be science, not anecdotal evidence based on someone's personal experience.

All 4 of my TDIs have benefitted from it. Especially in extreme (5F or less) cold. Anything that helps get the engine up to temp quicker and hold it there is going to help use less fuel, even if it is only a tiny amount. That isn't so much science as common sense.

Of course, if you have a less-than-ideal functioning thermostat, blocking the grill will probably appear to help even more than it normally would. But like I said, on ALL my TDIs, which have been a 1997 Passat with a 1Z engine, a 1998 Jetta with an AHU, a 2000 Golf with an ALH, and a 2004 Passat with a BHW, have shown some improvement with doing this in the winter, and all my cars are equipped with proper functioning thermostats.

You don't need to double blind a study where all the results are measurable. This isn't a cure for cancer.

oilhammer said:

The DSG's control unit, known as the Mechatronics unit, monitors ATF temps closely, and even has a clutch/shift strategy to deal with extra high temps, should they occur. It will also flag a DTC if there was an overheat, and if it is sustained will reduce engine power and even warn the driver.
So the dealer saying your trans overheated is just bogus. However, they can have issues if you get stuck in snow and repeatedly hammer on the go pedal. DSGs do not like slippy conditions.

Click to expand...

This exactly. Have them bring up the codes telling you that the DSG experienced an over heating as proof. They won't be able to and that's when you tell them they just lost a customer and walk about and file a complaint with VWoA

To summarize facts and usefull info gained from this discussion:
(for complete info go to beginning of this thread)
Background:
The car has 60,000 miles on it.
I have owned it since new.
About 2 months ago when weather here in Vermont turned cold I blocked the front grill with foam tubing, as others have done with no reported problems.
There has always been a lag in transmission engaging in the morning but it is getting worse and especially on cold mornings, 15f down to -25f here in Vermont.
I asked the dealer to check on the lag problem. He said I had overheated the DSG, as indicated by dimpled belly pan blocks near the bottom of the DSG, and now it was leaking.
Facts:
The DSG is cooled by engine coolant.
There is warning light on dash if DSG gets too hot.
This light never came on and the temp gauge on the dash never indicated above normal operating temp.
The car had the DSG 40,000 mile service performed by same dealer who is accusing me of overheating the DSG by blocking grill.
Others here have seen leaking oil from a pinched o-ring after DSG service.
The dimpled belly pan blocks are normal, not caused by heat from DSG.
I called a half dozen dealers in Canada and spoke with the service department heads and not one of them said it was possible to overheat the DSG by blocking the grill. They report many owners block the grills with no problems. One service department head said he would block his if he owned a TDI.
Conclusion:
I am not sure if fluid levels have been low in DSG, and I do not know if the lag I experience with this transmission engaging is normal..it would be great to hear from others with DSG if they have lag problems on cold mornings. I do not know if the DSG is faulty and will have problems in the future. Should I have it replaced?
I will find out from dealer soon about replacement of DSG and who will pay for it. Will keep you posted.

The hesitation you feel is normal especially when really cold. Mine has done that when parked over night and I try to back out of the spot. It won't engage right away. I anticipate this lag and just plan accordingly. It doesn't take more than a mile to start acting normally.

I have also had the DSG lag - feels like the tranny is frozen - very slow to engage. It only happened this year (or was the first time I noticed) and was a cold morning (-20 C). It shifted reluctantly into R, then slowly engaged D and I felt it upshift (I rarely feel any shifts). After maybe 1 km things were "normal".
I have foam blocked my Golf's front end the last 3 winters, always on the bottom section only.

Mine definitely has this lag as well in the cold temps. I shift from P to D or R and it just sits there for about 15 seconds before anything happens. After about 1 minute, if I stop and put it back into P, it goes back into any of the other gears like normal. And for the record, I have nothing blocking my grille except for this winters snow and ice.

The lag was there in mine when temperatures dropped below 20. Once warmed up things were good....

I think you have a simple O-ring leak from an ill-performed DSG service. Can you confirm that the DSG is actually leaking fluid. If so, the battery needs pulled to verify the source of the leak.

This is from first hand experience, I swore up and down that my DSG was leaking from the case split. My dealer (actually helpful) in diagnosing it pulled the battery and found that the fluid was running from the filter housing from the o-ring leak down the seam and to the bottom landing in the belly pan.

The dealer did not charge me for their diagnosis and even warrantied my DSG filter's o-ring even though the service was self-performed.

I still had to buy 5 litres of fluid but it was a happy ending.

dpg said:

The hesitation you feel is normal especially when really cold. Mine has done that when parked over night and I try to back out of the spot. It won't engage right away. I anticipate this lag and just plan accordingly. It doesn't take more than a mile to start acting normally.

Click to expand...

I experience the same if the car is left outside in temperatures below 10F. I assume it is the wet clutches and cold DSG fluid.

And I never block the grill, and have been running fine in temperatures down to -10F

Even with a Complete blocked grill the fans would still kick on when needed and they could easily suck cool ambient air. Not every measure of air flow is blocked for the grille.

I have 2 vehicles with DSGs now, and neither of them have the extended lag issues that others have reported here in cold weather. We've had 40+ days below zero (F) mornings this year. I think the longest I've waited for the DSG to engage is maybe 2-3 seconds when it was cold out? I probably just jinxed myself though.

Both of my DSG have a little delay on the real cold days. His DSG sounds normal.

Some delay seems normal from what I have experienced, too. But it is usually at most 3 or 4 seconds... at most. And that is when it is pretty cold, car sitting overnight on the lot, right after a cold start.

greenmountain said:

Conclusion:
I am not sure if fluid levels have been low in DSG, and I do not know if the lag I experience with this transmission engaging is normal..it would be great to hear from others with DSG if they have lag problems on cold mornings. I do not know if the DSG is faulty and will have problems in the future. Should I have it replaced?
I will find out from dealer soon about replacement of DSG and who will pay for it. Will keep you posted.

Click to expand...

It doesn't sound like the dealership has any evidence that the DSG is damaged. They are just going with page #1 off their playbook: Replace the most expensive part that is associated with a problem. I don't necessarily think you should have it replaced no mater who pays for it. They ought to actually diagnose the cause of the leak. Fix it. Fill it with fluid and see how it goes from there.

And if you have an extended warranty (and history of problems) then VWOA should replace it down the road if its really faulty or damaged.

I don't have DSG experience, but my understanding is that a bit of hesitation is normal. Why not take a new car with the DSG off the lot for a test drive? Or try to find a club member and drive theirs?

When you go back and they again try to blame you, tell them you've only had that on there for a few days so that couldn't possibly have caused the problem. Yes, you are lying but so are they so deal fire with fire.

Secondly, I doubt very much if the foam made any difference in the engine or the DSG overheating due to the way thermostats and the cooling system works. I wouldn't try to out-engineer the engineers.

To the original poster: have you bought this issue to closure ?
hopefully the dealer came around and did the right thing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup dealer blame game! They tried playing that on me a few times with some people it works but not on well informed tdiclub members, I HOPE. And not me.

Update:
I checked the top of the DSG for pinched O-rings around filter but saw no leaks.
VWOA says they have seen a few of these DSG cases leaking. They suggest doing a DSG service and torquing down the case bolts to try to stop the leaking.
The dealer will charge for the DSG service as the car has about 1000 miles over 60,000 mile warranty on the transmission. Dealer also finally admitted the foam blocking the grill could not have caused the DSG to overheat or caused any other problems.
The extended warranty on the transmission would replace it if it had failed. It has not really failed yet.
I will have to do the DSG service and if it keeps leaking then I will have grounds for the extended warranty to replace DSG.

It is very aggravating to have been falsely accused of having caused the problem by blocking the grill. I was either lied to by the mechanic or else he is incompetent. Then to have to pay for a new DSG service because the car is about 1000 over the 60,000 mile VW warranty. And then, I will have to have a follow up service to see if it continues to leak.
Slightly pissed at all of this!

greenmountain said:

Slightly pissed at all of this!

Click to expand...

Welcome to Real Life...



Yuri

I believe they charge an arm and a leg for DSG service. Do it yourself or find a local guru. Good luck.

greenmountain said:

Update: The dealer will charge for the DSG service as the car has about 1000 miles over 60,000 mile warranty on the transmission. Dealer also finally admitted the foam blocking the grill could not have caused the DSG to overheat or caused any other problems. It is very aggravating to have been falsely accused of having caused the problem by blocking the grill. I was either lied to by the mechanic or else he is incompetent. Then to have to pay for a new DSG service because the car is about 1000 over the 60,000 mile VW warranty.

Click to expand...

I have refrained from posting, partially b/c all I could do was offer words of support, and partially b/c some of the posts blaming the victim would have caused me to respond impolitely.

To the OP: If it were me, (and if you still wanted to stick with a dealer), VW would be doing this service under the 60,000 mile warranty. You had the problem prior, you told them about the problem at the 60k service, they (tried) to blame you (which is actually page number 1 in their playbook), and you were treated terribly. I would be on the phone with someone at either the dealership or VWoA until they paid for it. Finally, if it were me, (and in fact, it was, a decade ago), I would let the dealership and VWoA know you will never go them again, and I would stick to it. You don't list your town, but Full Circle Auto is in Waitsfield, and it's worth the drive to some other talented people that are further away.

G/L!

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmountain
Slightly pissed at all of this!

ymz said:

Welcome to Real Life...

Click to expand...

No, welcome to VW life.

NYC-TDI said:

welcome to VW life.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but... similar scenarios have no doubt taken place at other companies' dealerships - and I'm not restricting my comment to only car-related problems.


Yuri