2012 Golf and the dreaded flashing CEL/Glow Plug indic...will keep updated :)

Well, I just arrived home from 3.5 hour ordeal which involved setting up a Geico tow to a family members house, waiting for the tow truck...and waiting...and waiting...and wai...oh, there it is. Long story short, it's standing by with a VW Roadside reference number and tow appointment for it to be hauled in to Pete and his crew at Gunther VW of CC tomorrow morning. They are a considerable distance away from me, I so had to cover the extra tow fee for distance (they are almost 40+ miles away from the dealer VW Roadside wanted to drop it off at), but I don't mind since it means that I will have a trusted crew and TDI Guru working on it.

Here are the basics:

2012 Golf TDI Autobahn, DSG, roughly 6,xxx miles on the clock. Purchased from Chris (awesome experience, btw) and driven home to Miami, FL. Fuel purchases and mileage are meticulously maintained (98%+ of the fuel purchases on both TDI's are from the same high-turnover station, all receipts are documented seperately and stored), and when this occured tonight I was at about the halfway mark on the tank. the CEL/Glow Plug indic. started flashing right as I was about to enter the highway, so I avoided the ramp and headed down the block toward the nearest parking lot; as I was pulling in, it died and would not start up again (attempts to crank, though). I did not have a chance to hook up the vagcom and pull the log, but I will be sure to do so in the morning. It did receive the wonderful "construction area" caliber "DISESEL ONLY" sticker recall they mailed to our house

The intent of this thread is not to panic/gripe/complain, etc.; This is our second TDI (I have a 10 mkv.v Jetta sedan w/ 29.6k on the clock), and aside from this "ticking time bomb" issue they are still awesome vehicles, we just wish VW would step up and respond to such issues in the way BMW did when they had FP issues. Thankfully, the other TDI has been quite reliable thus far (aside from one HPFP incident which was not a TOTAL failure)...I merely wanted to start a thread to document this process/occurrence, and where I can post updates and share information which *may* prove valuable to others. I will also attempt to document which revision of the pump this car has, as well as which one the 2010 has. I'm very fortunate to have Pete's (VWSHOPFRMN on here, iirc, who has contributed to a few HPFP threads with great info) shop close enough that I can take it in there with this problem, so I will attempt to keep up the morale and "Drive more, worry less."
Thanks for stopping by....pictures and information will be forthcoming.


Update #1; standing by for VW Roadside to pick up the golf and I. Just got a chance to run an auto-scan with vagcom and found four codes:

-000135 - Fuel rail/system pressure, P0087 - too low - MIL ON

-000135 - Fuel rail/system pressure, P0087 - too low

-000401 - Fuel Pressure Sensor (G247); P0191, implausible signal - Intermittent

-000135 - Fuel rail/system pressure, P0087 - too low

Posting this from my phone so the info is limited, but I will copy the complete log for the faults found and post them this afternoon. I didn't clear any codes, just saved them for my records. I was able to speak with My service writer and they are waiting for the car,

Now if this dang tow truck would hurry up and get here....

oh, and if for whatever reason this does spiral out of control, we've always been a fan of Lexus (couch-like ride or not, they step up to the plate for service and hold decent resale value).

At least you got your stickers! place them on the Lexus, see if that solves any issues. Hahaha

Sorry to hear about your issues, where have you been filling up?

Def keep us posted.

I'm sorry to hear about this... I'll be following your thread with interest.

Wow , good luck with all this ! It seems there have been a huge spike in hpfp failures the last week or two ! Make sure to report this to the NHTSA if it turns out to be a hpfp failure !

Softrockrenegade said:

Wow , good luck with all this ! It seems there have been a huge spike in hpfp failures the last week or two ! Make sure to report this to the NHTSA !

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He should likely wait until he finds out what the problem is.

pknopp said:

He should likely wait until he finds out what the problem is.

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Of course ! But that was sort of implied on the grounds this is actually a failure .
Edited my original post .

Thanks for posting. Best of luck to you.

Hey all,

Thanks for the replies! I wasn't able to get back on yesterday after I dropped off the golf, but I just got a call from the service writer who confirmed that the HPFP imploded and sent metal throughout the entire system

740GLE said:

Sorry to hear about your issues, where have you been filling up?

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We fill up both cars at a Shell service station located on the Florida Turnpike. We chose this station, even though it is usually quite a bit more expensive than other local ones, due to the fact that it has the highest diesel turnover of any station in the area. Since it is actually on the Turnpike (it's on an island in-between the north and south lanes, so it's extremely convenient for drivers...even though we pay two tolls to access it whenever filling up) and diesel trucks (tractors, delivery trucks, boat haulers on the way to the keys, etc.) stop by all day, I'm reasonably sure it is always fresh. Also, we always stick to the exact same pump, and we have receipts for every single fill-up on both cars.

The golf was filled up there on 08/03 with 6,238 miles on the clock; the HPFP imploded at precisely 6,519...281 miles on that particular tank of diesel.

I Filled up my Jetta at that exact same pump on 08/06, and I have now hit around 230 on that tank (29.6k total miles on the clock) with *knock on wood* no issues.

I have always followed the HPFP convo's in here with great interest, and the talk regarding any one particular brand of fuel being "tainted" more often than not has always been difficult to swallow. This thread points out why in the first page; http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360744

Our service writer has always been an absolute pleasure to deal with, and he is aware that we love our TDI's and are extremely meticulous with them. With that being said, the preliminary details are that it will be covered and providing parts arrive on time the entire fuel system will be replaced and ready to go by Friday. This was a preliminary phone call with the basics, and I'm awaiting more details regarding the failure once the tech has a chance to tear into it more and test the diesel in the tank. For now, we have a super-base '12 Passat loaner (gasser).

As of right now, I'm taking the following actions:

• Heading to the Shell station to speak with the management and let them know what happened. Hopefully I can find out the delivery dates of the fuel for that particular pump between 08/03 and 08/06 to see if there was any change.
• Take a sample of what's currently being dispensed from that pump
• Reporting it to the NHTSA
• Following the remaining guidelines in the HPFP Failure FAQ: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380

I was not able to get a picture of which revision pump the golf has, but seeing as how it's a 2012 with 6519 miles on the clock, and due to the fact that we searched for this particular model with Chris and it arrived at the port only a few days before we arrived at Langhorne, it had to have been one of the latest *at the time*.



For now, the '12 passat base gasser it is... I will update as I know more. I'm just happy about two things right now; 1) that when the CEL/Glow Plug light hit I did not decide to continue and take the on-ramp for the highway...that would've been even more dangerous, and 2) that I've been watching this forum and involved myself enough to know how to document this and what steps to take if/when it happened.



Thanks for reading

Shell...... Again .....

Softrockrenegade said:

Shell...... Again .....

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Really didn't want to go down this path... please read here;

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360744

Also, here are the codes from the auto-scan I conducted with the vagcom, as promised;

Address 01: Engine (CJA) Labels: None
Part No SW: 03L 906 019 HG HW: 03L 907 309 AA
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG 2261
Revision: 12H14--- Serial number:
Coding: 0050078


4 Faults Found:
000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 - 001 - Too Low - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 10487 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.14.05
Time: 19:41:38

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1426 /min
Inj. Quantity: 24.4 mg/str
(no units): 5.0
Pressure: 792.0 bar
Pressure: 504.0 bar
Temperature: 64.8°C
Tank Cont.: 25.2 l

000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 - 002 - Too Low
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 10487 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.14.05
Time: 19:41:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1426 /min
Inj. Quantity: 22.2 mg/str
(no units): 5.0
Pressure: 768.0 bar
Pressure: 584.0 bar
Temperature: 64.8°C
Tank Cont.: 25.2 l

000401 - Fuel Pressure Sensor (G247)
P0191 - 001 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 4
Mileage: 10488 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.14.05
Time: 23:01:25

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 943 /min
Speed: 1.0 km/h
Lambda: 38.7 %
Pressure: 416.0 bar
Pressure: 576.0 bar
Pressure: 984.0 bar
Temperature: 58.5°C

000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 - 006 - Too Low
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100110
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 10492 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.14.05
Time: 23:06:19

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1058 /min
Inj. Quantity: 6.3 mg/str
(no units): 4.0
Pressure: 408.0 bar
Pressure: 96.0 bar
Temperature: 54.0°C
Tank Cont.: 25.2 l

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

TR10 said:

Really didn't want to go down this path... please read here;

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360744

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That thread based solely on what a VW rep told me a couple of years ago. Maybe there's something to it, maybe not...but I'm of the opinion Shell's name is coming up throughout some unknown number of these failures.

It would be very interesting to know where those who have had failures were filling up.

From what I've seen, it's pretty well documented. It is even one of the requested pieces of info in the "Official HPFP Failure thread;" http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854

Also, these are the specific responses I was focusing on from your thread:

DervishHenry said:

Same here from Portland, OR. 40k trouble-free miles with 99% Shell fuel.

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aja8888 said:

Lets see (I work on the business):

It depends where the station is located, then,
It depends which distribution terminal the station is contracted with, then,
It depends which pipeline is contracted with for delivery of diesel to the terminal, then,
It depends on which refiner the pipeline company contracts with, then,
It depends on which crude oil supplier the refinery contracts with, then
It depends on which producer the crude oil came from.

All in all, there is no easy (even hard) way you can figure out what crude oil was taken out of the ground that ended up in your tank as diesel fuel.

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JSWTDI09 said:

The other problem with this is that most fuel stations (not just Shell) do not sell fuel that they themselves have refined. A Shell station in one city may sell fuel that comes from an ARCO refinery while a Shell station in another city might sell fuel from a Chevron refinery (or any other brand). In a given city, almost all of the diesel fuel comes out of the same pipeline. The only thing that Shell, Chevron, ARCO, or BP does is to add their own additive package to that "raw" D2 (if you are lucky). This is done at the terminal to each delivery tanker truck. On any given day Chevron's fuel might be better than Shell's or the Shell fuel might be better than Chevron's. I really wish that it was so simple as to say avoid XXX brand of fuel, but I seriously doubt that this is so. Except for any additive package diesel fuel is pretty much diesel fuel, no matter where you buy it. I'm sure that there are exceptions to this rule, but they are rare.

Have Fun!

Don

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RebelTDI said:

Someone previously pointed out that there are more Shell stations than other brands in the US selling diesel, so that would skew the odds against Shell. If there were some data to show that Shell diesel is lower quality than the others, that would make sense. Without that data, advising people to stay away from Shell almost seems slanderous.

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In my area, the Shell we fill up at is the best choice due to the high turnover...I certainly would not feel *more* comfortable avoided Shell based on what is a potentially false premise and choosing another brand, based on the name alone, where the diesel sits for long periods of time.

Good luck man, sounds like your dealership is really doing well by you so that at least makes the process easy, even if not enjoyable...

DubFamily said:

Good luck man, sounds like your dealership is really doing well by you so that at least makes the process easy, even if not enjoyable...

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lol, absolutely.

There's a reason we paid out of pocket to cover the additional expense of having it towed over 50+ miles just to go to this dealer. I can't remember the specific thread, but there was a gentleman on the forum with a passat that needed the balance shaft issue addressed who drove a few thousand miles to bring it to VWSHPFRMN's shop.

TR10 said:

In my area, the Shell we fill up at is the best choice due to the high turnover...I certainly would not feel *more* comfortable avoided Shell based on what is a potentially false premise and choosing another brand, based on the name alone, where the diesel sits for long periods of time.

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I fill up at high turnover stations as well. There could very well be nothing to claims about avoiding Shell. But I feel *more* comfortable erring on the side of caution. ......Which is why I use Opti-Lube. That probably doesn't matter either.

Personally, I believe we have shytty HPFP's causing these failures and they shouldn't shred even with mis-fueling or with small quantities of water in the diesel.

At the pressure these things run at it doesn't take much to do a lot of damage. The rail operates at ~20,000 PSI. That's an absolutely INSANE level of pressure. For the sake of comparison, water pressure at the bottom of the Marianas Trench (deepest place on earth, almost 7 miles deep) is only 16,000 PSI.

No More Buffalo said:

At the pressure these things run at it doesn't take much to do a lot of damage. The rail operates at ~20,000 PSI. That's an absolutely INSANE level of pressure. For the sake of comparison, water pressure at the bottom of the Marianas Trench (deepest place on earth, almost 7 miles deep) is only 16,000 PSI.

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I like this!

It reminded me of the quote I often see on these pages, I hope I quote it correctly, "German engineers do it because they can not because they should."

I love my new 12 Golf so much that maybe I need to buy a second one to drive if one of them has this happen to it. I was sort of hoping that 12's weren't going to do that...

No More Buffalo said:

At the pressure these things run at it doesn't take much to do a lot of damage. The rail operates at ~20,000 PSI. That's an absolutely INSANE level of pressure. For the sake of comparison, water pressure at the bottom of the Marianas Trench (deepest place on earth, almost 7 miles deep) is only 16,000 PSI.

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NewLyme said:

I like this!

It reminded me of the quote I often see on these pages, I hope I quote it correctly, "German engineers do it because they can not because they should."

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Hit the nail right on the head, it seems (both responses).

blownaway said:

I love my new 12 Golf so much that maybe I need to buy a second one to drive if one of them has this happen to it. I was sort of hoping that 12's weren't going to do that...

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so were we...

On a brighter note, I think we may be in the running for fastest catastrophic HPFP failure repair ever. Just received a call letting me know that all the parts were [luckily] in stock, and it has had everything (entire fuel system, etc.) replaced ; 100% ready to go, checked over by the tech and given the go-ahead by Pete himself! Leaving in a few minutes to make the trek up there!

Truth be told, I can't wait to get out of this 12 Passat...nice as it is, it seems to me that in VW's aim to compete for larger market share they have made the car much more generic feeling (i.e.: rides like a couch, a-la-lexus)...truly miss the "driver" feel of the Golf and how it feels connected to the road.

I do find it interesting that the hpfp in your '12 Golf TDI failed so quickly, but under the same circumstances, you '10 Jetta TDI has been fine. Regardless of the "version" to hpfp, the failures seem to have a big of randomness to them. I was going to say, oh, another failure in a hot southern state, but your Jetta has survived thus far.

It seems pretty clear, if you look at the tabulated failure data, the problem isn't so much HEAT as MOISTURE. Cars in hot, dry places like Nevada have below average failure rates.

There has only been one in Oklahoma that I know of. We are ridiculously hot 3 months out of the year, but our humidity isn't all that high so I definitely agree with that statement Buffalo.

"Joined" the club.

Had my Jetta die Monday AM just after pulling off freeway. 230 miles on tank of fuel. HPFP. Dealer analyzed fuel, not that. VW warranty covering all except rental car, fluids replaced, and diagnostic charge. 44K+ miles on it, so out of normal warranty. Faster turnaround than I expected. ETA for pickup is Friday afternoon.

Saltlick48103 said:

Had my Jetta die Monday AM just after pulling off freeway. 230 miles on tank of fuel. HPFP. Dealer analyzed fuel, not that. VW warranty covering all except rental car, fluids replaced, and diagnostic charge. 44K+ miles on it, so out of normal warranty. Faster turnaround than I expected. ETA for pickup is Friday afternoon.

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You might want to pressure them. The HPFP falls under the powertrain warranty up to 60K miles. From what I understand (I could be wrong), the rental car should be covered as well as everything else I would think.

Just now picking up the Golf. Preliminary (will post more from home tonight) info; fuel was tested and it was fine. Also, no rust anywhere in the canister/system. So the Shell theory, at least for me, seems to be out of contention.

Saltlick48103 said:

Had my Jetta die Monday AM just after pulling off freeway. 230 miles on tank of fuel. HPFP. Dealer analyzed fuel, not that. VW warranty covering all except rental car, fluids replaced, and diagnostic charge. 44K+ miles on it, so out of normal warranty. Faster turnaround than I expected. ETA for pickup is Friday afternoon.

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That does not sound right. As was stated, that should, presumably, be covered under the powertrain warranty. You may want to go over the warranty fine print in the owners manual and put in a call to VWoA for documentation. Although there is a mileage difference between our TDI's, since the pump failed without any outwardly identifiable culprit, absolutely everything was covered for me (even the rental).

I apologize in advance if this violates some protocol, but have seen in other forums, where the piezo injectors may be a culprit. When they fail, they spew little bits of ceramic throughout the fuel system which in turn messes up the hpfp. Anyone else heard this before?

I don't see how that could happen.



Even if the piezo mechanism were to fail, the bits would go into the cylinder, not back into the fuel system.

No More Buffalo said:

It seems pretty clear, if you look at the tabulated failure data, the problem isn't so much HEAT as MOISTURE. Cars in hot, dry places like Nevada have below average failure rates.

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So a positive to this oven temperature 'dry' heat.