TDI failed emissions test, Colorado - need advice

I took my 2002 Golf in yesterday to have a diesel emissions test - the whole procedure is for the purpose of getting Colorado tags. According to the tester, "it failed pretty bad," (I do not have the results handy right now but will post them under this thread) he did note that the exhaust was coming out "rich."

After paying $58.00 to find out that I cannot drive my car legally, I talked to a mechanic down the way about the problem - to get some ideas as to what would cause the emissions failure, and how to fix it. He suggested purchasing a new air filter, one that was quite expensive (maybe a K and N?), obviously, change the oil, run out the remaining fuel, run it on a couple of gallons of 'red fuel,' refill it with a higher grade diesel, and then take it back in. If this did not work, he would then suggest testing and changing the fuel injectors, since it was evident that there was diesel in the oil.

I would like to know what you think. Keep in mind that I live close to downtown Denver, and work in downtown Denver, so I do not drive. This car had been sitting in my driveway for five or six months before I took it in for the test. I do understand that this probably had something to do with it. But if the test failed "pretty bad," is it more proabable that there is something wrong with the car's internal functionings, beyond old fuel, old oil, etc.? Please advise.

P.S. as you probably know, red fuel can only be purchased by those with a license. What is an alternative to this? The mechanic was not a proponent of the "Lucas" type of products for cleaning fuel injectors.

A few points...

1. K&N is bad, m'kay?
2. Red fuel isn't going to help anything.
3. Get a Vag-Com or find someone who has one, turn the IQ setting up as high as you can get it... then have the car re-tested. It should pass with flying colors. After it passes, return the IQ setting to a level that produces a comfortable level of power without producing excessive exhaust smoke.

If there is fuel in your oil, you have bigger issues than failing emissions. Why is it evident there is fuel in the oil?

Contact aNUT, he's in your neck o' the woods.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=53466

the oil smells like fuel.

Did the car run good/smoke before it was parked?

You might have a bad injector or four. They might not be atomizing the fuel, which will cause black smoke and oil contamination.

Very interesting to hear that it failed emissions and that there was diesel in the oil.

Bob is right about that you have larger problems with the Diesel in the oil, so you may want to pull the injectors and see if there is anything wrong with them.

On a side note, here in Ontario, Canada the Emissions Test on a Diesel is as follows:

You drop off the car at the Emissions test center
The tech takes your keys and starts the car (in the parking lot)
The tech looks at the exhaust while the car idles (for 30 seconds)
If no black smoke you pass
You pay the tech $37.50
The end

MrVermin

The car runs fine now, and yes it did run fine before it was parked for a long time. I do remember it smoking on the interstate last fall. I then changed the oil and air filter and it stopped. Will old oil cause it to smoke? what about EGR?

Again, the mechanic did mention that the injectors might have to be replaced - that if I was going to replace one, I should probably just replace all four since I am already paying for labor. Is there a step-by-step instructional on this site for how to change fuel injectors?

They hook it up to a machine in Colorado, pretty serious. When I get home I will post the results of the test to see if anyone can make something out them.

I would pretty much have to go to a mechanic for a VAG -COM, right?

#1 - lose the "mechanic down the way" - sounds next to clueless on diesels
#2 - what VeeDubTDI said
#3 - since you "do not drive", why do you own a car?

You are probably asking too many questions to try to change the injectors yourself. I guess it is a 2 hour job. I suppose a pro might be faster but they will still charge at least 2 hours, maybe more.

Anyone can buy a Vag-com. It is just a cable and software that lets you read German auto cars with on board diagnostics connectors. Of course you have to know what you are reading for it to help. Gross problems will show up as fault codes. Subtle errors show up on graphs and with numbers you need to know how to read. There are probably some folks in Denver that have Vagcoms.

VW TDI oil does not smell pleasant. I would drive around a bit to get the oil hot and change it and the oil filter. Note that the oil will be black 10 minutes after you start up the engine with fresh oil. I would then be driving the car for a few hours to get the engine warmed up, good and hot. Maybe drive up to Colorado Springs and back or over to Dillon. Just drive it a bit so you can get the engine good and hot and maybe flush gunk out. Maybe some fresh fuel. Check your oil level before you start the trip. Check it after an hour. Check it when you get back home. For consistency sake check it 10 minutes after you stop the car and of course park the car on level ground.

Going for an emissions test with a car that has sat for 6 months may not be a good idea. Your car may be a bit smokey in Denver. I don't recall mine being smokey last time I visited but that was a few years ago. Memory fails except for the nasty food poisoning I suffered on the way home.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/pdf/injector_install_howto.pdf

http://www.ross-tech.com/

You can look at the top of this forum in the "Sticky" posts to find "Recommended" mechanics and those TDIClub Members with a Vag-Com in your area.

As for Injector removal and installation, if you are in any way mechanically inclined, you can do them yourself in your driveway in about 30 minutes or so.

This is the Link to the "How-To" for the Injector swap complete with a PDF file with pictures detailing how to do it.

It may also be that since the car was sitting for such a long time in your driveway unused, you may just have to drive it for a bit before you take it back to be retested. It may pass after that.

MrVermin

Sounds to me like your car is falling apart... you just posted a thread about brake problems, too.

Find yourself a good TDI mechanic in your area before your car bites the dust.

mrvermin and roadhard,

Thank you for the constructive advice, I will get to work right away. I think it being caused its sitting for so long is a very practical synopsis, and running the old fuel out of it will be a good first step.

How about an Italian Tuneup to blow the junk out?

Change the oil, run some diesel purge through it and take it out for a good run. If this fails find a good TDI Club recommended mechanic and get it checked out. Good Luck.

Go to the trusted mechanics thread. You have one in CO. A GURU. Not a "diesel shop" This guy has zero idea what he's talking about.

In Colorado the test is just opacity . They put the car on a dyno and floor it for about 1 minute in 3rd gear . Get the guy to retest in 2nd instead of 3rd if they will this always make for a cleaner exhaust opacity wise .


It sounds like your timing is off and you are over fueling .

Do you have over sized tires or wheels on the car ?? This will change the gearing enough to make a car fail the test if you are border line passing .

First place to look under the hood is the intake , a clogged intake will make you fail .

Next get clean oil in there . I'd get some 505,01 in there it smokes less with this in there up here I've noticed on older cars .

If that still doesn't do it get some K1 , 5 gal or so on an empty tank to half full tank would do the trick .

I'm betting that is what they were talking about when they said red fuel . Off road K1 is dyed red as no road tax has been paid . You can get a few gals of K1 at any of the local fuel distributors on the front range .

5 gals of K1 in the fuel might be enough to make it pass without even opening the hood . I've seen this trick used many times up here in our thin air on older cars to pass that stupid test . When I came out here 18 years ago this was the only place in the US doing this test . Never have I registered a car out here but I learned all the tricks from my dieseling friends over the years .

By the way on the timing being off , a clogged fuel filter can throw off the timing enough to cause this exact issue .

I'd start with the a couple of gals K1 to clean the fuel system out first and then go from there . If the car sat it is likely that the fuel has crudded up some . If you are not going to drive very much alway fill the car all the way up and treat the fuel before parking it to avoid issues like this .

PM me if you need any help ............ I'll be in Denver for a couple of more weeks .

K&n

Never use a K&N or any oiled air filter. It will ruin your MAF. New air & oil filters needed, oil change, get some MAF cleaner and clean MAF. Red dyed diesel not good-could lead to fines!

Off road is legal as long as you only use it as an additive , ~10 % or less .

Check timing, MAF, and boost. Diesel purge to clean the injectors. Change fuel filter. Run the tank fairly low and take it for a good, hard run. Fill with the highest percentage of biodiesel that you are comfortable with and take it in for a test.

whitedog said:

Check timing, MAF, and boost. Diesel purge to clean the injectors. Change fuel filter. Run the tank fairly low and take it for a good, hard run. Fill with the highest percentage of biodiesel that you are comfortable with and take it in for a test.

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In low O2 Colorado the Bd trick doesn't seem to do that much as far as smoke reducing . I have tried it several times on 1.6 L ds with little success as far as reducing the opacity rating . It did drop the opacity rating by only a couple of % , not enough to pass the test .


Had a friend with an 82 Audi 4000 D that scored ~48 % before BD was used . Only dropped to ~45 % with a tank of B100 , the limit had just been dropped from 45 to 40 % that year . On K1 it dropped into the low 30s % without messing with the fuel screw .


And on K1 you might be able to find some on road at one of the local distributors if you are worried about following the letter of the law .

I wonder if modern electronics would change the effects of BD over those mechanical pumps since they have better control over timing and quantity. Not being argumentative, just wondering. It seems possible... Shrug.

jvance said:

How about an Italian Tuneup to blow the junk out?

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I second this attempt. Drive it hard on the highway for a few days. I would think if it sat for a while it needs a good old Italian Tuneup. Clean filter and possibly fuel filter might help.How long ago did you change these? Red Die Fuel is just that. Regular Diesel with red die in it. It is for Agricultural purposes.

whitedog said:

I wonder if modern electronics would change the effects of BD over those mechanical pumps since they have better control over timing and quantity. Not being argumentative, just wondering. It seems possible... Shrug.

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I've owned , driven 3 TDIs ( 2 B4s & 1 A4 )out here all set up to over fuel with the timing early to the extreme . Have many friends out here in TDIs & TDI-PDs that run high %s of BD in A4s & B5s . And have seen little difference in smoke on high %s of BD .

I've also had close to a dozen 1.6 Ds & TDs out here , one 1 Canadian 1.9 L Eco-TD and a list of 5 & 6 cyl D & TD VW powered cars in the last 15 years . There seems to be little difference in opacity results from high %s of BD use up here . I'm sure it's is related to the low O2 content & reduced atmos pressure in the air up here .

Not saying that you can't smell BD use but it seems not to burn much more thoroughly up here compared to petro diesel in my varied sample of cars & engines at least . Back in the day there were separate pump timing settings for high altitude driving to reduce smoke . I think they were set 5 or 10 mm early on the dial indicator settings to deal with high altitude driving if memory serves in the service manual .

I've seen quite a few examples of cars that didn't smoke at all in eastern NC but smoked like a train up here .

Find out what you failed for...it is probably NOx or Smoke/PM, CO and CO2 are rarely even close to the limit. Once you have this information, find someone with Vag-com and read your basic timing. For performance you want your car as close to the peak advance line as possible, but this also creates a lot of NOx. Below are the steps for correcting the two most common emissions failures. If you have to retard timing to reduce the NOx, make sure you bring it back once the test is complete so you will have the same performance and fuel mileage.

EDIT: Correction in last sentence, was smoke, I switched it to NOx to make the correction

NOx+NMHC = retard timing to reduce
Smoke, PM = advance timing to reduce

Lefty said:

I second this attempt. Drive it hard on the highway for a few days. I would think if it sat for a while it needs a good old Italian Tuneup. Clean filter and possibly fuel filter might help.How long ago did you change these? Red Die Fuel is just that. Regular Diesel with red die in it. It is for Agricultural purposes.

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REd dyed fuel can be anything from off road RUG , mid grade to K1 to D2 ( ULSD , LSD to HSD all included ) and everything in between . It just means that no federal road tax has been paid .


And there is plenty of red dyed all grades of UG , D2 & K1 sold in Colorado and in the other 49 states for the government cars , buses & trucks , farms & construction companies that use it . Someone else can chime in on aviation gas & fuel , I don't know if it is dyed .

US.co.gov said:

MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC REGULATION HOUSE BILL 03-1053​

BY REPRESENTATIVE(S) Ragsdale, Borodkin, Coleman, Carroll, Marshall, Stafford, and Weddig;
also SENATOR(S) Teck, Entz, May R., and Takes.

AN ACT​

Concerning emissions testing for diesel vehicles.


Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:

SECTION 1. 42-4-414 (1), (2), (3) (a), and (3) (b), Colorado Revised Statutes, are amended to read:

42-4-414. Heavy-duty diesel fleet inspection and maintenance program - penalty. (1) The commission shall develop and implement, effective January 1, 1987, a fleet inspection and maintenance program for diesel-powered motor vehicles of more than seven thousand five hundred fourteen thousand pounds empty weight gross vehicle weight rating. Regional transportation district buses, state, county, and municipal vehicles, and private diesel fleets shall participate in the program through self-certification inspection procedures as developed by the commission.

(2) (a) The executive director of the department of public health and environment commission shall promulgate rules and regulations requiring owners of diesel-powered motor vehicles, registered in the program area, routinely operated in the program area or principally operated from a terminal, maintenance facility, branch, or division located within the program area, and subject to the provisions of this section, to bring such vehicles into compliance with existing opacity standards set forth in section 42-4-412. Such rules and regulations shall be strictly construed, shall require no more than normal and reasonable maintenance practices, and shall not require additional fees or loaded mode testing equipment. Owners of fleets shall test opacity standards on a periodic basis.

(b) Such test shall use an opacity meter for such vehicles that are greater than ten model years old, but may use an automated opacity metering protocol for such vehicles that are less than or equal to ten model years old and of model year 1995 or newer.

(c) Such rules shall exempt a new diesel vehicle from testing until such vehicle has reached its second model year if it is a light-duty diesel vehicle, its fourth model year if it is a heavy-duty diesel vehicle, or until the date of the transfer of ownership prior to such expiration.[/font]

(d) Such rules shall provide for the testing of diesel vehicles every:

(I) Twelve months unless subparagraph (II) of this paragraph (d) applies; or

(II) The last twenty-four months if such vehicle is a heavy-duty diesel vehicle, equal to or less than ten model years old, and of model year 1995 or newer.

(3) (a) Any owner who operates or permits the operation of a motor vehicle which is subject to the provisions of subsection \\

(1) of this section and which does not comply with emissions regulations promulgated pursuant to subsection

(2) of this section as required in this subsection

(3) is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than twenty-five dollars nor more than three hundred dollars.

(b) Any owner who violates any rule or regulation of the department of public health and environment or the commission establishing standards or procedures for testing or inspections is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars nor more than three hundred dollars.

SECTION 2. 42-4-401 (7), Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended, and the said 42-4-401 is further amended BY THE ADDITION OF THE FOLLOWING NEW SUBSECTIONS, to read:

42-4-401. Definitions. As used in this part 4, unless the context otherwise requires:

(6.3) "Heavy-duty diesel vehicle" means a vehicle that is greater than fourteen thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating.

(6.7) "Light-duty diesel vehicle" means a vehicle that is less than or equal to fourteen thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating.

(7) "Opacity meter" means an optical instrument which that is designed to measure the opacity of diesel exhaust gases. by measuring the full flow of exhaust gases which pass through the optical unit.

SECTION 3. 42-4-406 (1) (a), (1) (b) (II), and (2) (b), Colorado Revised Statutes, are amended to read:

42-4-406. Requirement of certification of emissions control for registration - testing for diesel smoke opacity compliance. (1) (a) On or after January 1, 1990, no A diesel vehicle in the program area which that is registered or required to be registered pursuant to article 3 of this title, routinely operates in the program area, or is principally operated from a terminal, maintenance facility, branch, or division located within the program area shall not be sold, registered for the first time, or re registered unless such vehicle has been issued a certification of emissions control within:

(I) The past twelve months unless subparagraph (II) of this paragraph (a) applies; or


(II) The last twenty-four months if such vehicle is equal to or less than ten model years old, a heavy-duty diesel vehicle, and of model year 1995 or newer.

(b) (II) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph

(I) of this paragraph

(b), new diesel vehicles, required under this section to have a certification of emissions control, shall be issued a certification of emissions compliance without inspection or testing. Such certificate shall expire on the anniversary of the day of the issuance of such certification when such vehicle has reached its second model year if it is a light-duty diesel vehicle, its fourth model year if it is a heavy-duty diesel vehicle, or on the date of the transfer of ownership at any time prior to the second model year such expiration unless such transfer of ownership is a transfer from the lessor to the lessee. Prior to the expiration of such certification, such vehicle shall be inspected and a certification of emissions control shall be obtained for diesel smoke opacity compliance.

(2) (b) On or after January 1, 1990, all Light-duty (seven thousand five hundred pounds and less, empty weight) diesel vehicles in the program area shall be required to be tested for diesel smoke opacity compliance at a licensed diesel inspection station by submitting to loaded mode opacity testing utilizing dynamo meters.

SECTION 4. 42-4-403 (2) (c), Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

42-4-403. Powers and duties of the commission. (2) (c) The commission may also develop peak smoke opacity limits but such limits shall not be less than (old limit fifty) forty percent for less than one second.

SECTION 5. 42-4-412 (1) (b) and (4) (c), Colorado Revised Statutes, are amended to read:

42-4-412. Air pollution violations. (1) (b) Violations of this section may be determined by visual observations, including the snap acceleration opacity test, or by test procedures using opacity measurements.

(4) (c) If the owner of the vehicle described in the complaint assessment notice presents in person to the court an affidavit that the vehicle has been disposed of in such a manner that it will no longer be operated on the highways, together with the registration card and number plates of such vehicle, the fine shall be suspended. Likewise, upon presentation, in person, of an affidavit of the owner that such vehicle has been repaired prior to the date set for appearance upon the charge, which appearance date shall be at least fifteen days after the alleged offense, stating the date, location, and nature of repairs made, together with the name of the person making said repairs, and that the vehicle is not in violation of the provisions of this section when in normal operation, the fine shall be suspended. Likewise, upon presentation, by mail or in person, of an affidavit of the owner that such vehicle is being repaired or will be repaired within thirty days after the alleged offense, the cause shall be continued at least fifteen days. Any such affidavits are subject to the penalties of perjury in the second degree if made in violation of the provisions of section 18-8-503, C.R.S. Any owner who receives a citation under the provisions of this section may continue to use the vehicle for which the offense is alleged, without restriction, until such owner's conviction.

SECTION 6. Repeal. 42-4-404 (6), Colorado Revised Statutes, is repealed as follows:

42-4-404. Powers and duties of the executive director of the department of public health and environment. (6) The executive director may establish an arrangement by contract or otherwise with the Colorado institute for fuels and high altitude engine research of the Colorado school of mines. Such contract may provide for services including, but not limited to, in-use testing of heavy duty vehicles, development of effective inspection procedures, and investigation of emissions abatement technologies for the unique conditions existing in the front range and the high altitude communities.

SECTION 7. 25-7-122 (1) (b), Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

25-7-122. Civil penalties. (1) Upon application of the division, penalties as determined under this article may be collected by the division by action instituted in the district court for the district in which is located the air pollution source affected in accordance with the following provisions .

(b) Any person who violates any requirement or prohibition of an applicable emission control regulation of the commission, the state implementation plan, a construction permit, any provision for the prevention of significant deterioration under part 2 of this article, any provision related to attainment under part 3 of this article, or any provision of section 25-7-105, 25-7-106, 25-7-106.3, 25-7-106.8, 25-7-106.9, 25-7-108, 25-7-109, 25-7-111, 25-7-112, 25-7-113, 25-7-114.2, 25-7-114.5, 25-7-118, 25-7-135, 25-7-206, 25-7-403, 25-7-404, 25-7-405, 25-7-407, 42-4-403, 42-4-404, 42-4-405, 42-4-406, 42-4-407, 42-4-409, or 42-4-410, or 42-4-414, C.R.S., shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than fifteen thousand dollars per day for each day of such violation; except that there shall be no civil penalties assessed or collected against persons who violate emission regulations promulgated by the commission for the control of odor until a compliance order issued pursuant to section 25-7-115 and ordering compliance with the odor regulation has been violated.

SECTION 8. Effective date. This act shall take effect at 12:01 a.m. on the day following the expiration of the ninety-day period after final adjournment of the general assembly that is allowed for submitting a referendum petition pursuant to article V, section 1 (3) of the state constitution; except that, if a referendum petition is filed against this act or an item, section, or part of this act within such period, then the act, item, section, or part, if approved by the people, shall take effect on the date of the official declaration of the vote thereon by proclamation of the governor.

Approved: April 17, 2003

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Like I said it is opacity only testing in Colorado , 40 % for Normally aspirated diesel engines ,

35 % for turbocharged engines above a certain displacement ,

30 % below that displacement point one second test measurement .

I don't know what the limits are on an 04 or later car .

Pre 03 MY diesels must test every year , 04 & later every two years .

Give aNUT a call, he comes highly recommended by me and many others.

www.dieselland.net

He's in Denver just east of Kipling and Colfax, near the Audi/Porsch dealer.

Everyone needs to give him business so he can build a new shop with a door tall enough to get my syncro van inside

am I a GURU?

jasonTDI said:

Go to the trusted mechanics thread. You have one in CO. A GURU. Not a "diesel shop" This guy has zero idea what he's talking about.

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HOLY CRAP!!!

Did JasonTDI just call me a GURU??? Maybe he was talking about Steve. I'm gonna try to not let this go to my head.

On topic, Joseph emailed me about his car. I'm not going to try to use my car ESP on this one. If he brings it in, I'll make sure it's running in tip top shape, and send we'll see how the test goes.