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G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
You need to start searching Craigslist with www.craigshelper.com You will be the headache of importing an engine and probably save a lot of money. This is how I have found all of my donors :)
 

Spulen81

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Warners, NY
My friend in Ireland just bought a nice '95 B4V TDI for 100 euro, they are cheap over there. There are deals here too but you have to really look hard and be ready to pounce on a good one.
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
There are guys over there that will do your shipping for a few. I have done that. And by the way...any plans on making more of those awesome trailers?
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
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Aidan

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Location
Midlands, UK
TDi's are everywhere here, very little of those will be on ebay, try breakerlink.co.uk or partsgateway.co.uk also.

Suggest to the seller to use wedelivertheworld.com for delivery to US, or it can be sent from mine
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
Keep in mind importing an engine is not a trivial matter. Several listers have had their engines seized by customs because of improper declaration. The only permanent legal way to import a complete engine is to have a certificate of conformity from the EPA, of which no European coded engine will have.

Also shipping ain't cheap. You will find that the 600 dollar engines quickly become 1,500 engines, if they get past customs.
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
CrazyQuantumMan said:
The following is from the EPA site regarding importation of engines. I do realize installing a non-certified engine into a certified vehicle constitutes some form of illegality. The engines I'm interested in are US versions with the same engine codes commonly available here. If I could get a TDI engine for $1500 I would be giddy!!!! If it costs $1k to ship I'm still coming out way ahead! Getting through customs should be easy with the correct declaration:

"B. (2) Engine not in Vehicle or Chassis

EPA regulates the entire vehicle, not individual parts, for cars, light trucks, and motorcycles. If an engine is not installed, and is to be used in a car, motorcycle, or light truck, it may be imported as an automotive part. No approval or Customs bond is required by EPA. Importers should be aware, however, that replacement of an engine in a U.S. version vehicle with an engine of a different type or model year which is not currently covered by an EPA certificate or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to introduction into commerce may violateEPA regulations.

To import an engine for use in a car, light truck or motorcycle, the importer must file with U.S. Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 and declare code "W" on that form.

For a "heavy" vehicle or "heavy" truck, EPA regulates the engine, whether or not it is installed. EPA considers a vehicle or truck as "heavy" if it has a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 8,500 pounds, or a curb weight of more than 6,000 pounds. To be imported, such an engine must be either excluded, exempted, covered by an EPA certificate of conformity, or imported by an independent commercial importer."
If you read the EPA 3520-1 form you will find:

code W - non-chassis-mounted engine to be used in a light-duty vehicle or light-duty truck or motorcycle which is currently covered by an EPA certificate or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to introduction into commerce.

If customs asks for a copy of the certificate (which they do) kiss your engine goodbye. OEMs will not even talk to you about a certificate of conformity unless you own the vehicle and engine in question and can prove you own it.

This topic has been discussed at great length on these forums, and several members have had engines seized, but feel free to roll the dice yourself.

It's been my experience that the savings becomes rather minimal if you factor in the risks, like the engine seller taking your money and not delivering, or the seller not packaging the engine properly for shipment (this has happened to me alot), the risks go on an on. I've done this for more than 4 years and can write volumes on all the crap I've had to deal with.

Your better off finding a $2500 tdi engine domestically.
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
Perhaps Mr Dewitt will give you some pointers as he does this for a living. He has a lot of non conforming engines...so clearly there is a way to get a conforming one in. I say just ask him. As far as engines here...I can often find them cheap...depends on what you need...I suspect you need a full swap.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
No offense but why should he give pointers? You are trying to do what he make a living doing. He has probably learned the hardway once or twice and that is the price of admission to this job field.
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
CrazyQuantumMan said:
I'm confused. Why does the EPA form put "Code W" under the "Excluded Vehicles" portion of the form? As stated, they do not require any certifications whatsoever nor can they legally ask for one. If you've had problems in the past why have you not shown them their own regulations and what it says on their own form? "No approval or Customs bond is required by EPA." That means the EPA can kiss my cold cheeks. Correct me if I'm wrong on this because as noted, I have not imported an engine before. But, I deal with legal issues for a living so this is nothing new for me. I'm curious about those folks who had their engines "seized" by customs and the circumstances behind the seizures. Were they smuggling coke in the oilpans?
Scott Kraut can tell you all about his engine seizure. because he could not produce said certificate of conformity.

You are very naive if you think customs cannot legally ask for a certificate of conformity. They can, they will, and they do.

However feel free to go about it yourself and learn from your own mistakes, your chances of getting an engine in without the proper declaration are at best 25/75 maybe 50/50 if customs is in a good mood.

Enjoy the importing process.
 

dobeonguard

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Location
Canton, OH
TDI
98 Jetta TDi
Cars and car parts are imported everyday into the United States by collectors, restorers and the like. A friend of mine restorers exotic cars, for example a 1918 Locomobile that he had in a few weeks ago. My first car was a Ford Probe, and I remember wanting to purchase a "crate" motor from a company that imported them from Japan. It was the exact engine except an extra 40 or 50 hp and did NOT meet U.S. EPA standards, this was perfectly legal as long as you "never" installed it into a car here for on the road use. Contact any importer or facilitator that does this kind of thing and they will give you the straight scoop. My friend was telling me in order to avoid certain EPA restrictions a complete or semi complete car needed to be torn apart and shipped separate and listed as a kit, I forget exactly. In Ohio it is also illegal to shoot off fireworks, but legal to buy them and say your taking them out of state. The same goes for an engine, who is saying that the motor will not be torn apart and used for parts or used in an off road race car. What you do from there is your business. I wanted to add this, if you try to import a motor yourself and asked by customs, EPA or whoever if you are putting this into a car for on the road use I am sure it will be seized. You are best using a facilitator that does this, find a motor, have it shipped to them in Europe where ever they are located, probably the port of Amsterdam, Hamburg and so on and they will ship it here. You would have to pick it up in New York, or any of the east coast ports of entry. I remember I would have had to pick up this motor personally in New York or Boston, can't remember. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Good luck. Next time in Germany I will go to a junk yard and find spare parts for my car and bring them back in my suitcase along side all the Bier!
 
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TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
dobeonguard said:
Cars and car parts are imported everyday into the United States by collectors, restorers and the like. A friend of mine restorers exotic cars, for example a 1918 Locomobile that he had in a few weeks ago.
Most of the parts imported by restorers and collectors are older parts, older than the 25 years mandated by the EPA. Once it's past that age it's no longer restricted, being considered a "classic" or something like that and not reasonably believed to be a daily driver (Hah, my "classic" is my '82 couple daily driver!).

People lying about their intentions post-Customs is part of why the customs restrictions keep tightening and more prying keeps being done into our business. Restrictions and regulations always become tighter when it's felt that people cannot be trusted.
 

dobeonguard

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Location
Canton, OH
TDI
98 Jetta TDi
My Ford Probe wasn't 25 years old... Regulations exist for on the road use, not off road, racing or pulling a tractor at the county fair. There are companies that specialize in this, they will accomplish what you need. Seriously, how does TDIparts have European hitches not DOT certified for on the road use? It is very likely people will use their MkIV to tow a farm trailer in Iowa?!?! You can do many things in the United State as long not for an illegal purpose. Before someone flames me for encouraging illegal activity I am not, I am simply saying it is done with no issues. Second, just because they do not have a certificate of conformity I am more than sure the motors from Europe, especially Germany are cleaner than those sold in the United States.
 
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dobeonguard

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Location
Canton, OH
TDI
98 Jetta TDi
CrazyQuantumMan said:
If anyone is willing to ship me a 1.4TDI lets talk! Wouldn't that look fantastic in an "off-road" Fox wagon??
The problem is that it cannot be a private person to person shipment, this needs to be handled by a company that does this. If you find a motor you want it would need to be shipped to the facilitator in Europe, then forwarded here for you to pick up. Do a search online and you will find plenty of companies that do this. I think shipment for a motor varies between $250 and $500. I know shipping a small car from the East Coast US to the port of Amsterdam for $600, motorcycles are $400 or so.
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
If you would actually read the engine declaration form you will see the categories under which you import and engine. Any permanent importation required permission from the EPA (off road, racing, show etc) with the exception of the ancient engine clause, which customs does check.

PM listmember KRAUT and he can tell you all about his ordeal.

When your private import gets flagged, seized, and destroyed, and when you get out of jail after paying your multi bazillion dollar fine, post your experience here.

The only sure fire legal way to import an engine is to do so in sub assemblies or pieces.

But even then if it is assembled you know what has to be done...
yup you need a certificate of conformity!


dobeonguard said:
My Ford Probe wasn't 25 years old...
Your Ford Probe also has a certificate of conformity and conforms to EPA, and DOT specs for the model year so I doubt there would be an issue.

dobeonguard said:
I think shipment for a motor varies between $250 and $500. I know shipping a small car from the East Coast US to the port of Amsterdam for $600, motorcycles are $400 or so.
Your shipping rates are either very old or very low. Ocean freight is about $300-400 bucks per cubic meter or 1,000kg whichever is greater. There are usually pretty high minimums. I've airlifted engines before and they were around $1,000 bucks for 150 kilos.

Drive on drive off service typically starts at $1,000-$1,200 per car depending upon origin and destination.
 

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Right, while KROUT couldn't import 2 engines (he got 1 I believe), the guy I bought my "half cut" german Golf from does it all year long. This guy goes to Germany, fills a shipping container full of half cars, engines, etc, and brings it back. I'm not sure how he does it. I certainly didn't get any sort of certificate of conformity for my PD150.
 

dobeonguard

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Location
Canton, OH
TDI
98 Jetta TDi
Honestly, there is no point to argue this. Contact a known shipper that handles this. When a known shipper imports your parts, motor whatever THEY themselves are signing and filling out customs not the person receiving them.

Sure my Ford Probe had a certificate of conformity, NOT the motor in Japan from the Mazda equivalent! This was a motor shipped from Japan that did not have EPA conformity, I have several friends that bought one.

I worked for the Department of State at an Embassy in Europe, I can tell you shipping rates that employees paid to bring additional vehicles in country beyond what the government provided for free were what I said. Second, I met two nice bikers on a road trip in northern Alabama from Frankfurt, Germany. They each paid 400 Euros to ship their BMW's to the United States for their road tour, they delivered them at the port of Hamburg and picked them up in NYC. A friend paid $400 to ship a dog trailer from Hamburg to Florida which is about the size of a pop up camper. If ocean going freight were expensive as you say, that big ass plasma in my living room would cost a hell of a lot more than it did as it came from China.

I have traveled the world and have done a lot of import export, albeit mostly dogs. I import, train and handle police and military dogs. I came through Detroit airport with 10 dogs once, they were stacked on flat bed carts. When I got to customs and pulled out 10 giant business envelopes full of documents for inspection the ICE agent waived me through without doing required checks. I could have had a rabid wolf in one of the crates. My point is known shippers bring in 100's if not 1,000's of motors, cars parts whatever at a time in shipping containers. The whole process takes a few weeks. But customs, ICE and CBP are not looking at engine codes too closely to determine year, emission class or certification. They are looking for drugs, bombs and NBC material!

Edited to add a funny tidbit. I always accompanied my dogs on flights back and forth from Europe. On the trip when I had those 10 dogs, GSD's & Mal's they were delivered to the over sized door in baggage claim. When I go there to pick up my dogs after passing passport control I noticed there were 10 large crates and one small one. The little one contained one of those little designer dogs that Paris Hilton would have. The little one was between all the others, poor little dog must have been terrified for 9 hours in the luggage hold thinking he might die at any moment. :)
 
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Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
CrazyQuantumMan said:
Show me where on this form it says that!
http://www.epa.gov/oms/imports/forms/3520-1.pdf
Again if you can't read the form and instructions I suggest you have someone else do your importing.

Anyways you seem to be sure of yourself and know what your doing. Good luck, I'm unsubscribing.

In the JDM days there have been several importers who have lost containers full of engines/half cuts etc due to not having the proper documentation. This is why it helps to have a customs attorney on retainer in the event something goes awry.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
For someone asking questions, notwithstanding newbie status, being so argumentative with someone in the know, this is rather amusing.

Quantum, with all due respect, are you asking for advice, or a yes-man to agree with what you seem to already know?
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
I suspect he wants advice...I did speak to him. Though Mr Dewitt is clearly unwilling to give any advice save to use a known importer. It wouldnt hurt to give some pointers on how he does it. After all, this forum is full of people giving away their "secrets" that they use to make money all the time right? What would it hurt? Scott did lose an engine. That is the only case I remember on the forums, though there may be more. Advice is good...but why not say how it can be done? After all...it may still be too pricey for normal folks...but it will answer the question.
 

Dieseltoys

Vendor
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Location
San Antonio, Tx
TDI
Toyota Diesel
There is no name-calling. You seem so sure of yourself I'd rather sit back and watch the carnage. More entertaining and I can later post links to show people the "what not to do" thread.
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
mrchill said:
I suspect he wants advice...I did speak to him. Though Mr Dewitt is clearly unwilling to give any advice save to use a known importer. It wouldnt hurt to give some pointers on how he does it. After all, this forum is full of people giving away their "secrets" that they use to make money all the time right? What would it hurt? Scott did lose an engine.
I've already stated how to do it. The only way to bring over an engine if you don't have a certificate of conformity is in pieces or sub assemblies. No form EPA form xyz is required. No secrets there. You can roll the dice with customs any way you which but if you get an inspection (which occurs more than 50 percent of the time) they can and will start asking questions, and if you answer those questions with "I know the rules I'm a punk ass that does this stuff everyday" you will not gain any friends with the CBP. I've dealt with the CBP on many occasions and your attitude will end you up in jail, fined or both, and you still won't get your engine.

Do your risk analysis, is saving a few bucks worth the risk of loosing thousands? There are alot of pitfalls with buying and importing stuff overseas, of which you know little about apparently.

CrazyQuantumMan said:
Plane ticket to UK= $859.
Sleep on friends couch=free.
Purchase engine and everything else I need=$500
Ship it to the US=unknown

Anyone help fill in that unknown?
You must be illiterate.

I've already posted approximate costs.
Shipping for me all said and done is $300-$400 per cubic meter or 1,000 kgs. Go to DHL.com and get a quote, then add 20 percent for the bull**** that you get charged for duties, inspections, warehousing fees, warfage fees, union craps the list is a half mile long. You also have to get it from the warehouse to you which is another couple hundred.

Then multiply it by 10 it because you were an thick skulled moron and failed to use the proper certified crating material suitable for exports and your shipment got returned along with
everything else in the container. You now have a shipping company that is pissed at you and 20 other people who's stuff got returned because of your lack of experience BTDT.

There are also restrictions on the exporting side (the UK) that many sellers don't want to mess with. If the seller is a private party the freight company will want their passport number and a whole bunch of other personal information, and if the seller is a business the freight company will ask for their VAT number and a bunch of other things, opening the seller up for other scrutiny.

These costs are assuming you get the stuff you actually purchased BTDT, Assuming the engine has not sat out in the open air and seized due to rust BTDT
Assuming nobody drops your prized possession while doing do-nuts with the lift truck
BTDT and assuming that the seller didn't say "Thank You" and took your money without giving you what you bought BTDT.
The list goes on and on.

I'm at a loss if this isn't enough "Advice". I will now look forward to your vast superior intellect, and importing experience telling me that I'm full of it. I'm going to grab a bag of popcorn, some 3-D glasses and enjoy the show :).
 
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Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
CrazyQuantumMan said:
If I do not succeed, then I will keep trying until I do. www.redlightracing.org This guy got a 1.2 so I know it is possible. Even if it costs me 10 times more than finding one here, it will be worth it to share my story to others.
Redlight racing likely brought over the Lupo under one of the few temporary importation clause good for one year, then the vehicle must be exported or destroyed.

It requires various governmental permissions and is on a case by case basis.
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
Scott_DeWitt said:
Redlight racing likely brought over the Lupo under one of the few temporary importation clause good for one year, then the vehicle must be exported or destroyed.

It requires various governmental permissions and is on a case by case basis.
That is exactly what he did. That Lupo has now been destroyed. I bought my engine from Quality German Auto Parts. Yes, it is more expensive, but you don't assume any risk.

Personally I hate dealing with customs. The last time I imported a relatively larger dollar amount of stuff it really puckered my butt hole even though there was no reason to worry. Yes, you can follow the rules but when it comes down to it, customs answers to no one. They can do whatever they want. If they inspect your container and they don't like the way you have things set up what'll they do? Why, throw your stuff in the water, of course. Don't like it? Too bad. Would you spend $1000 to be sure you don't lose $2000-2500? In my opinion it is a worthwhile investment.
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
Well. Mr Dewitt...that was useful info. Now at least we know some of the pitfalls. Thats mostly what he was asking for. I guess I am lucky...or just have a good broker. I dont do imports as large as you, and never do containers as I am not in the parts only business. But when I do buy parts, I do it the way it is written ans so far so good.
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
CrazyQuantumMan said:
So they destroyed the Lupo but what happened to the engine? EPA regulations that allow a one year pass are only for the entire vehicle, not the engine according to their website. So whats the story, did they destroy the engine?
I do believe the vehicle in its entirety has to be rendered inoperable. That would include engine and the rest of the drivetrain.
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
CrazyQuantumMan said:
I just now stumbled upon the Insight thread. I'm guessing by the look of things the engine did not make it to the crusher.
I drove it a few weeks ago, so apprently not :)
 
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