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ZF8 Tune?

Pittdawg

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
Is there anyone who provides a TCU remap for the 8 speed Tiptronic ZF transmissions found on the U.S. Spec Q5 TDI? I can only find comnpanies offering TCU tunes for the 3.0TFSI or a S-Tronic based TDI.
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
There are a few tuners but probably none offers remote tuning for the ZF8 (AL551).
See TVS engineering dealer in US, maybe they can loan you the tool to write it.
 

Huskies2710

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Location
Chicago
TDI
2016 Audi A6 -- 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI
Is there anyone who provides a TCU remap for the 8 speed Tiptronic ZF transmissions found on the U.S. Spec Q5 TDI? I can only find comnpanies offering TCU tunes for the 3.0TFSI or a S-Tronic based TDI.
Following.... About to get a Malone on a '16 A6 but from chatting with them there is nothing to be done to the transmission aspect right now like you would with a DSG transmission.....
 

bahiaeternal

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Location
Burlington County, NJ
TDI
2016 Audi A7 TDI
Please let us know what you think of tune. I have the same year TDI and debating if I should chip. Ive owned a diesel since 01 and have been always chipped on the 2.0. The 3.0 is the ultimate when chipped. Congrats on your car btw.
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
The ZF8 transmission is pretty powerful as it is. There is no big interest in wasting much time improving it for street use.
With stock transmission software the A7 3.0 tdi went 11s / 402m many times so why bother.
With more extreme setup and light weight opponents went 10.8s /402m.
Pretty good times for stock trans.
 

Pittdawg

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
The ZF8 transmission is pretty powerful as it is. There is no big interest in wasting much time improving it for street use.
With stock transmission software the A7 3.0 tdi went 11s / 402m many times so why bother.
With more extreme setup and light weight opponents went 10.8s /402m.
Pretty good times for stock trans.
My biggest issue is the off the line performance; it seems more transmission related than turbo lag related as you floor it and it takes seemingly a couple seconds before the vehicle moves at all. The EPA "fix" only seemed to exacerbate the issue.
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
Off the line the car was doing 60ft in 1.5s with drag tires .pretty impressive for such a big car.
But at that point i suspect gearbox was tuned and modified inside for more torque. Ours was doing 1.7s iirc.
You can try and put european software or get somebody to tune it.

Send an email to tvs engineering. They said they tuned a few.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Beams don't know when you push the pedal, only car moving thru the beams so 60ft is totally off topic here.
 

Huskies2710

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Location
Chicago
TDI
2016 Audi A6 -- 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI
A little update. I currently have a new thread started in the Audi section of TDI Club.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=497540

I'm located in Chicago, and just got a '16 A6 and had planned to get the Malone Tune. Fast forward a few days and my buddy who owns a dealership has a friend with a performance shop.

I'm not getting the Malone anymore and the car is in the shop getting a custom tune and dyno'd by APM Tuned in Villa Park which is just west of Chicago. They have not done a TCU tune for this transmission but have worked out many for other cars. After some tinkering and having the car for almost two days they have done an ECU and TCU tune on the car. I've asked them to err on the side of conservative tuning as I won't be deleting any emissions equipment nor do I want to be rolling coal nor any heat issues on WOT runs.

I should be picking it up in a few hours but they have said everything came together really well when I got off the phone last night. They wanted to make some fine tune adjustments today. I did request the Dyno numbers so I hope to share as much information as I can.
 

Huskies2710

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Location
Chicago
TDI
2016 Audi A6 -- 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI
Apologize for the delay. Been living in the car between driving and tinkering all weekend. I received the car Friday and have been driving around sometimes for no reason at all. Have logged 200 miles.

Here are the dyno results. They did exactly what I asked as far as power. It was conservative in the fact it didn't send the emissions equipment (which I don't plant to delete) into a hissy fit and kept everything smooth across the powerband.

This measurement is to the wheels not engine power. It added 30 hp and 20 torque. Nothing huge, but paired with the TCU tune is where it becomes fun. Shifts into 3rd, 4th and 5th feel like they pull harder and resuck you back into your seat at each shift. Keeping the car in Dynamic mode and Sport, the revs always stay in a spot where I'm driving along regularly and decide to step on it the power is there instantly. No lag. Go back into Comfort mode and all is calm. Currently with spirited driving mixed between city and highway 50/50. I'm at 31.8 mpg. I will do a hand calculation when I fill up.

http://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0GA9Gj76LQGcUpZcGEzNWdBVzRROHpBT0JrMlNTSXJOT280/view?usp=sharing
 

Huskies2710

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Location
Chicago
TDI
2016 Audi A6 -- 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI
Here is what they told me:
"With the TCU upgrade we increased the torque limiter while increasing the speed and quality of each shift. When the car is in Dynamic-Sport mode, your tune will shift to the next gear quickly and smoothly minimizing the jerk motion when re-accelerating through shifts as you are used to. You are being pulled gear to gear instead of shifted in essence. Continuous power moving you forward at all times from quicker shifts and most aggressive in torque requested limiters. You now have minimal to no lag between gears. Hope this explains why you said you felt as if your being pulled harder in the higher gears.

As you asked, we kept the EGT/Turbo temps at a safe level to protect the car. Keeping the heat under control is why the power/torque increases were not as high they could have been for the ECU tune especially true when comparing to numbers you read online. Since your goal was to raise power, improve and smooth out shifting, while trying to protect emissions equipment (until you decide to delete, then we will really get some power!) We tried and I believe succeeded, to build a custom tune that produced the results you desired.

I'm seeing if they can do a remote tune for this, but customizing it all I'd think you need to be onsite.
 
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Huskies2710

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Location
Chicago
TDI
2016 Audi A6 -- 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI
Here are the power numbers to the engine with the ECU/TCU tune.


 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
My biggest issue is the off the line performance; it seems more transmission related than turbo lag related as you floor it and it takes seemingly a couple seconds before the vehicle moves at all. The EPA "fix" only seemed to exacerbate the issue.
Can you stall the converter to get it 'up and ready' sooner?

I suppose that might just make the car protect you from yourself...
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
There's little that transmission software alone can do about initial acceleration off the line unless it is artificially limiting engine torque. The trans starts out in 1st gear and the 1st gear ratio is what it is. The torque converter starts out multiplying torque determined by its physical characteristics. Highly likely that slow response off the line is determined by something the engine (or its controls) is doing, not the transmission.

Shift calibration, both shift timing and speed, is another matter, very much determined by the electronics and mapping/programming.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
unless it is artificially limiting engine torque
this is a very common thing
all the pickups do it, it is why they have so much higher power ratings on the automatics.
With a manual you need to spec the clutch for peak torque, meaning you're going to end up with something less than friendly to today's pussified driver. Also, you can get the instantaneous torque rating of that clutch at any time in any gear by simply sidestepping the pedal. 800 ft/lbs may be the input rating of the trans, but after the reduction of 1st gear, and tcase low range, you're pretty quickly talking 25k ft/lbs at the output shaft and a hundred thousand ft/lbs at the axleshafts.

With an auto, it is easy to keep the driveline happy by only ever engaging clutch packs while engine power is cut, limiting engine torque in lower ratio gears, cutting throttle input when you're trying to stall the converter to warm up the fluid to get the ATF thermostat to open up,

Oh, and jamming it in park while you're rolling along and open a door to make sure you don't cut a stupid low-pro sidewall on a hoist arm. That's definitely nice to everything involved. :rolleyes:
 

Audibot

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Location
MD
TDI
2016 A6 TDI Prestige
HPTuners is tuning the 8HP transmission. I've seen a few folks on Audizine (C7 forum) who have used them to increase solenoid pressures, get crisper shifts and launches, and improve shifting behavior. Haven't seen it for TDI yet, but it is part of my plans when I start modding my A6 TDI
 

bahiaeternal

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Location
Burlington County, NJ
TDI
2016 Audi A7 TDI
HPTuners is tuning the 8HP transmission. I've seen a few folks on Audizine (C7 forum) who have used them to increase solenoid pressures, get crisper shifts and launches, and improve shifting behavior. Haven't seen it for TDI yet, but it is part of my plans when I start modding my A6 TDI
Please keep us posted on the ZF tune, good luck.
 

named tintin

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
quebec, canada
TDI
golf tdi
I'm curretly offering ZF8 tune for Ecodiesel, night and day difference in driving, and soon I'll offer it for those VAG 3.0L TDI, but they are very hard to understand, there is like 99 shift pattern available for various situation and adaptive, so the way you drive it will dict how it will react and use different shift pattern, a nightmare to tune, and for unknown reason when I tried to read one in a Q5 the HPTuner did not work, it's not supported, so I'll have to write them to see what is the problem.
 

Milpitas2.7T

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Location
Livermore, CA
TDI
2014 Q5 Sline Plus Prestige
I'm curretly offering ZF8 tune for Ecodiesel, night and day difference in driving, and soon I'll offer it for those VAG 3.0L TDI, but they are very hard to understand, there is like 99 shift pattern available for various situation and adaptive, so the way you drive it will dict how it will react and use different shift pattern, a nightmare to tune, and for unknown reason when I tried to read one in a Q5 the HPTuner did not work, it's not supported, so I'll have to write them to see what is the problem.

Let us know when you get something. Lots of us want pre EPA fix results. Right now the vehicle doesn't want to actually start going when you push the pedal, it's nuts how dangerous it is.

Also many in this thread are citing TCU, the 3.0's the ZF8's are TCM's.
 

named tintin

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
quebec, canada
TDI
golf tdi
Let us know when you get something. Lots of us want pre EPA fix results. Right now the vehicle doesn't want to actually start going when you push the pedal, it's nuts how dangerous it is.

Also many in this thread are citing TCU, the 3.0's the ZF8's are TCM's.
I do have both pre & post fix file of these, I can see the difference but I can't overwritte post file with pre fix, this does not work like this... not always.

If anyone want to try it, I can send/rent him my tool so we can tune his tranny to behave like it was before, I will base my mod on the prefix file, at the same time, I can improve it.
 

Pittdawg

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
Let us know when you get something. Lots of us want pre EPA fix results. Right now the vehicle doesn't want to actually start going when you push the pedal, it's nuts how dangerous it is.
Also many in this thread are citing TCU, the 3.0's the ZF8's are TCM's.
I've been using a Sprintbooster as a stopgap until a retail tune is available. It's not as good as TCU tune but is greatly improved over stock.
 

named tintin

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
quebec, canada
TDI
golf tdi
Just PM me guys, I do a lot of tuning on these tranny for Ecodiesel, the tuning is exaclty the same as for Vag or any other platform, the ZF8 software is ZF proprietary, so it's some sort of universal unlike the diesel engine of different brand.
 

Pittdawg

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
Just PM me guys, I do a lot of tuning on these tranny for Ecodiesel, the tuning is exaclty the same as for Vag or any other platform, the ZF8 software is ZF proprietary, so it's some sort of universal unlike the diesel engine of different brand.
In an earlier post you said you couldn't get the HPTuners to read the Q5 TDI platform, did you resolve that issue?
 

DieselDeeds

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Location
Edgewood, WA (Tacoma/Seattle Area)
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI S-Line + Black Optics Package
I just posted under the Q5/Q7 section on TDIClub for this, but here is what I found recently if anyone is interested:

--Link to forum discussion:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=500950

--Most recent post I made in that forum discussion regarding ZF 8-speed tunes:

I was doing a little research last night and found this website diesel performance which is located in the UK, https://www.diesel-performance.co.uk. They offer TCM/TCU tunes so I contacted them via email and told them I have a 2014 Audi Q5 TDI from North America and asked if they provided a tune for the north american q5 tdi and if so, which TCM tune would fit my car. They emailed me back and provided me with this link:

406ft/lbs model:
https://www.diesel-performance.co.u...017/3-0-tdi-quattro-240ps176kw-2967-ccm-7/#go

The problem is...is our Q5's come stock with 428ft/lbs, which is this link:
428ft/lbs model:
https://www.diesel-performance.co.u...-2017/3-0-tdi-quattro-245ps180kw-580nm-11/#go

I have read positive reviews from this website and would be willing pay to have a plug and play tune via OBDII shipped over to the US..considering the only other option (as far as I know..) is driving over to Chicago area from Seattle to get my TCM tuned or removing my TCM from inside my transmission and shipping it out.

What do you guys think??
 
Last edited:

DieselDeeds

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Location
Edgewood, WA (Tacoma/Seattle Area)
TDI
2014 Q5 TDI S-Line + Black Optics Package
I just realized I posted the exact same resource as you Pittdawg.. oops haha.

- Pittdawg, did you ever end up getting a TCM tune from these guys?

- Also, does anyone know if USA Q5's TDI's should use the 406ft/lbs tune of 428ft/lbs tune? Are the EURO TCMS same as the USA Q5 TDI TCMs??
 
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Pittdawg

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
I just realized I posted the exact same resource as you Pittdawg.. oops haha.

- Pittdawg, did you ever end up getting a TCM tune from these guys?

- Also, does anyone know if USA Q5's TDI's should use the 406ft/lbs tune of 428ft/lbs tune? Are the EURO TCMS same as the USA Q5 TDI TCMs??
And I just responded in the other post lol! I did not buy it but yes, they emailed me back confirming which one works on our US spec models. I believe it was the 428 ft/lbs version.
 
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