ZeroStart Heater Test: Perfect day for it

[canbluegolf]

It started off at -40c (-54 w/ windchill) this morning and has since warmed up to -36c (-48c WC). My poor TDI has been sitting outside for the last 4.5 hours, exposed to the wind, with only the powerful /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif 250W VW oil pan heater plugged in. I'll wait another 2 hours before I plug the 1000W Zerostart in, that'll give it 2.5 hours to warm the engine before I leave for home.

Place your bets ... will the engine fire as if it was warm?
(Warm being no waiting for glow plugs, rough running at start or clouds of smoke)

Steve

P.S. No wonder Temro does a cold weather testing here .... burrrrrrr

 

[stayalert]

I say yes as long as your batt is up to it. Good luck. stay warm
Rob M
Concord, MA

 

[watercop]

If the car is parked where that wind can get to it, I'd say NO.

Folks like to say that cars don't care about windchill. The still air temp is the only one that matters. True, until one (tries) to warm the car above ambient. Then that wind flies in and steals all the heat one is trying to add.

I'll bet it starts, but not happily.

To improve the heating, open the hood, spread a thick blanket on top of the engine with blanket edges sticking out all around. Lower the hood GENTLY onto the blanket. This stops much of the natural and forced convection which transfers heat away from the engine. The zerostart and Pan heaters will do a much better job with a blanket on top

 

[canbluegolf]

watercop,

The wind is hitting it on the passenger side.
I just plugged it in 10 minutes ago so it'll have two hours before I go start it.

It has warmed up a bit /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif, now -32c, w/ windchill -43c.

Steve

 

[Mike H]

[ QUOTE ]
It started off at -40c (-54 w/ windchill) this morning and has since warmed up to -36c (-48c WC).

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG /images/graemlins/eek.gif
You must be in Manitoba. What are you waiting for, I'd plug it in now. We had -28 last week and I only had an hour to plug in before starting, car had been sitting for 2 days. So I unplugged the temp sensor to force the glow plugs into action. I knew I'd be in trouble with warm coolant and a cold engine. Something you may want to try since it's so insanely cold there.

-Mike

 

[canbluegolf]

Yup, Manitoba /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Here are the results after running the 250W oil pan heater for 8 hours and the Zerostart for the last 2 hours.

No glow plug wait time, expected, and a *slightly* rough idle but no stumble! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Not bad, the interior temperature read -28c so the car did cool down alot, almost down to ambient, currently -33c.
Those seats sure are not comfortable, it's like sitting down on a block of ice ...

Steve

 

[dieselgus]

Hey, and just think, according to the CBC morning show... only 2 weeks more of this lovely high pressure system. Luckily, my Zerostart is working fine as well, 2 sec glow, beautiful start the past 2 mornings, no stumbling. Leather seats on the other hand.... ROCK HARD! Ugh.... But, its a dry cold /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Gus
"Portage and Main... 50 below"

 

[DakotaTDI]

Greetings from Grand Forks...-38.9 F/-39.4C this morning. I had my TDi garaged (no heat) and it started fine. Can you guys fill me in on the Zerostart. Someone was talking yesterday about not using a block heater because it messes with the glow plugs (they think its warm). Also, do you use anything to block the radiator? Is that ok to do and what do you recommend? Stay warm. Remember, cold now means less mosquitos!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Curious Chris]

If you have an A3, ie pre 1999.5 you can probably put in a ZeroStart frost plug heater. If you have an A4, you cannot put in a frost plug heater so the options are www.tdiheater.com for a kit, or search here and do the DIY way if you have more time than money.

I have the tdiheater.com kit in my car and the heater is on a timer that turns of 3 hours before I leave for work. -29 degrees F today, key on, glow plug indicator flickered, vroom, started up and it was warm. Of course I had to drive like a loony to get the engine fully warm.

Oh, if you use either the frost plug or the recirculating heater like tdiheater.com it is important that either one is on long enough to truly warm the block as it is true if you turn it on for 15 minutes the temperature sensor will think you are warm already.

 

[DakotaTDI]

Thanks. I checked out the site. I have a type IV (1999.5). Are you aware of a big difference in the heater model between that year and the 2004?

 

[dieseltwo]

Wind Chill Factor. If you have a in line heater pluged in. The wind chill factor WILL affect the amount of heating you get to the engine from the heater. If you were to run a winter front with the flaps closed it will help a lot. If you have no winter front on the car, then cover the front with what ever to stop the wind from blowing in and it will help. Also park your car so the wind is not hitting the front of the car. Sorry but Wind Chill Factor affects any thing that has heat to be removed. That is anything warmer [hotter] then the ambient temp.. Any thing that is warmer then the air surrounding it. The item will only drop to the ambient tempature. Also the heater will cost more to operate, due to the fact that it never gets to its shut off temp. Plus with the air blowing through the front grill etc., the engine heat would not be the same, with some cold spots from the blowing air, such as where the temp., sensor is could then affect the glow plug heating time like some are getting out here. Keep all the heat in the engine compartment and engine that you can and will help ever thing to start and run better plus save hydro.[Dieseltwo,Bradford,Ont..]

 

[Refiner]

Four days ago I woke up to find the temp -51c, it was just my luck that the breaker had triped on my cars plug in(had the jetta, the GFs car and a tractor pluged in). Unpluged the tractor and reset the breaker. My car started 3.5 hours later, made alot of noice but it went. My jetta has a oil pan heater and a zero start installed. The GFs car with just a block heater was dead for a 2 days until it warmed up to -30c(she has a toyota).
I must say that a zero start is the only way to go.

 

[Randy from Utah]

Sorry Dieseltwo,
You are wrong about Wind Chill Factor. It only effects humans and animals. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif I think you should say "wind" instead of Wind Chill Factor. Wind will cool things down faster, but the car won't get any colder than the outside temperature..
HTH..Randy

 

[Ransom]

On the topic of blocking the radiator, has anyone modified a VW bra on a Jetta to achieve that? My husband says we don't need a bra, but my father always blocked up the rads on our farm tractors in the winter...

 

[weedeater]

I think if it were getting that cold around here, I would block it too. I've used foam pipe insulation in the past. You can buy it in 4' lengths. Cut it into lengths that match the grill slats, then put them over the slats. Some use plastic ties to hold them on, but I've found they will stay on with their own friction. As tempuratures warm, you can easily remove or replace as desired.

 

[canbluegolf]

[ QUOTE ]
Greetings from Grand Forks...-38.9 F/-39.4C this morning. I had my TDi garaged (no heat) and it started fine. Can you guys fill me in on the Zerostart. Someone was talking yesterday about not using a block heater because it messes with the glow plugs (they think its
warm).


[/ QUOTE ]
Zerostart heaters will not give you problems unless you plug it in when the engine is cold for less than an hour. These coolant heaters are a must for "real" cold weather. The next day was again -40/-54 WC, with the TDI outside I ran both heaters (Zerostart + oil pan) over 5 hours and the it started like it was summer with the added bonus of instant cabin heat! (Read: warm air /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Here's the DIY instuctions,
Snowman's Install
or you can go the "pre-packaged" route with
http://tdiheater.com


[ QUOTE ]
Also, do you use anything to block the radiator? Is that ok to do and what do you recommend?

[/ QUOTE ]

Use pipe insulation to fill up the gaps on the lower center front grill, 3 pieces will do it, and yes, it makes a difference.

Between the Zerostart, pipe insulation and some creative operation with the heater's recirc, I'm quite impressed with the heat from the TDI in -40c weather. Within 5 minutes of city driving, from a -28c interior, I was getting comfortable.

Sure is a far cry from the 1.6L diesel days, which I had 15 years to enjoy the cold in /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif, were I'd freeze on anything below -30c unless I hit the highway.

Steve

 

[Erik Lupo 3L]

It's a shame for you people in North America that you have 110 volts.

The british Kenlowe Hotstart with 2,7kW capacity and built-in circulation pump is very effecient.
You can buy it online at MGOC

Maybe it could be used anyway, what is the tension between the phases in a system with 110 volts between neutral and one phase?

 

[red golf tdi]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. I checked out the site. I have a type IV (1999.5). Are you aware of a big difference in the heater model between that year and the 2004?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, each model and year are different, especially the 2004 models.

 

[tadc]

North American homes generally have a 220V single phase power drop, with a center-tapped neutral bonded to ground. This gives you 110v between either hot wire and neutral, or 220v between both hot wires. Generally the 220v outlets are only wired for high-power appliances such as electric ranges or clothes dryers. Theoretically you could get a 220v outlet wired up for your car if you were so inclined. Dunno about the 50hz/60hz problem though.

 

[Ian F]

[ QUOTE ]
North American homes generally have a 220V single phase power drop, with a center-tapped neutral bonded to ground. This gives you 110v between either hot wire and neutral, or 220v between both hot wires. Generally the 220v outlets are only wired for high-power appliances such as electric ranges or clothes dryers. Theoretically you could get a 220v outlet wired up for your car if you were so inclined. Dunno about the 50hz/60hz problem though.

[/ QUOTE ]

The resister element of the heater won't care about the difference in Hz. However, the circulating motor definitely will care. Regardless, you CANNOT run a Euro 220v L-N/G circuit on a US 220V L-L circuit. You'll need a converter. More trouble than it's worth if you ask me.

 

[dieseltwo]

Wind chill or wind will cool down anything it hits to the ambient temp., be it humans, animals or a car engine if their temp., is warmer then the ambient temp... Call it what you will. You are adding heat to the car engine with inline heater so the wind[chill] will remove the heat, no differant then a human. You will remove the heat, cool to the ambient temp., no less. Wind chill or as you call it the wind same thing removes the heat as if it was that cold, but again only to the ambient tempature. If -20 degs out, but the wind chill is -40, will remove heat like it was -40 but only to the ambient temp., which is the -20 degs. The air when moving removes the heat faster then if there was no air movement. No air movement then the heat will just radiate, our engines then just become a cast iron and aluminum radiator. Same as when you are driving your car, still has the same effect. Put a winter front on your car and you help stop it, slow it down.[Dieseltwo]

 

[DakotaTDI]

I had know idea cold could generate so much discussion. Thanks to all for your advice. FYI - Grand Forks reached it's all time low last Friday at -44F/-42C. In the garage the TDi started.
[ QUOTE ]
Use pipe insulation to fill up the gaps on the lower center front grill, 3 pieces will do it, and yes, it makes a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's just the lower grill that's providing air flow to the radiator? Are you strapping on the foam or just putting it around the grill bars (for lack of a better term)?

Again, thanks for everyone sharing their knowledge and experience.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[canbluegolf]

[ QUOTE ]
So it's just the lower grill that's providing air flow to the radiator? Are you strapping on the foam or just putting it around the grill bars (for lack of a better term)?


[/ QUOTE ]

The larger lower grill parts (below licence plate) are the ones I block off by fitting the pipe insulation in without ties.
It's suvived two car washes so I don't think they will come out on their own but it's easy to remove if needed.
I can post a pic later if you need it.

Steve

 

[shewch]

Last week it was my car was outside when it was -50 with the wind, plugged my 1500W Zerostart and the Pan Heater for an hour and a half, went to start, no glow plugs and was at the third bar at the bottom the the temperature gauge. Love my 1500 W would recommend it.

 

[DakotaTDI]

Thanks for all of your help!! I should have a warm TDi by weeks end.

 

[tadc]

[ QUOTE ]
Wind chill or as you call it the wind same thing removes the heat as if it was that cold, but again only to the ambient tempature. If -20 degs out, but the wind chill is -40, will remove heat like it was -40 but only to the ambient temp., which is the -20 degs. The air when moving removes the heat faster then if there was no air movement.

[/ QUOTE ]This is really just a matter of semantics, but "Wind Chill Factor" as discussed by weathermen and the like only refers to the additional "coldness" felt by humans due to both evaporative cooling as well as the increased convective/conductive cooling from air movement.

Inanimate objects DO cool faster in the wind, but they ONLY cool to ambient temps and never below that, regardless of wind. Humans, on the other hand, "feel" colder than ambient in the wind, due to evaporative cooling.

 

[TDI_Mississauga]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a shame for you people in North America that you have 110 volts.


[/ QUOTE ]


How cold does it really get in the UK? Do you even need the heater? IF its -5c here I dont even bother.