Zerex g-05 to top off the coolant

radunegru

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Coolant level came on this morning on start-up. Poped the hood, find the tank low, almost empty. I had top go somewhere fastr so I decided to add some Zerex G-05 from my Mercedes. How bad is it?
I added about 700ml.
Should I go to the dealer and flush it? Is it bad on the long run?
Anyway, low coolant for a car with 50k miles, unacceptable
 

turbobrick240

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When in doubt it is always far better to add a bit of distilled water.
 

Rico567

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Coolant level came on this morning on start-up. Poped the hood, find the tank low, almost empty. I had top go somewhere fastr so I decided to add some Zerex G-05 from my Mercedes. How bad is it?
I added about 700ml.
Should I go to the dealer and flush it? Is it bad on the long run?
Anyway, low coolant for a car with 50k miles, unacceptable
If this is the first time you've checked the coolant, mine went down not long after the car was new. An explanation for this in a relatively new car is that the cooling system being pressurized, the hoses will expand a bit under use, thus increasing the overall volume available for coolant, so the level in the overflow tank goes down. I have read that this is normal.
Coolants other than the stuff VW specs is supposed to be a bad idea. An addition of distilled water in a pinch sounds like a good idea to me. It shouldn't affect the freezing point that much, and the next time it goes down, add an equal amount of the VW coolant, undiluted, and you'll be back to 50/50.
 

radunegru

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I am up for a trip to Minesota and 700mll of water would of made the difference. From my previous German car experience zerex is good across all german brands, that is why I did it. I was planning to flush it when back.
 

turbobrick240

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If you had to add 700 ml to bring the expansion tank level to midline, you probably have a leak somewhere. The hoses don't expand that much. Unless it was low from the factory.
 

turbobrick240

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But to answer your question- you should not have added the silicate containing g 05 coolant. I would flush the system thoroughly and refill with g12 as soon as possible. And be on the lookout for leaks.
 

Ol'Rattler

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But to answer your question- you should not have added the silicate containing g 05 coolant. I would flush the system thoroughly and refill with g12 as soon as possible. And be on the lookout for leaks.
Correct, NEVER add the wrong coolant to your Dub. G-12 or G-13 only. The wrong coolant can cause a reaction that can cause your coolant to gel much like cottage cheese. Distilled water would have been a much better choice even if the freezing level is raised slightly.
 

Ol'Rattler

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Were on this planet is "Middle Village"? I get so tired of folks the post locations that don't provide any clue as to the weather conditions of their actual location. Does the Outside Air Temp were you are at get down to -50F, or does or just get down to +40F? Really makes a big difference on the advice we might give you.
 

BKmetz

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The only difference between BASF/Valvoline/Zerex G-05 and VW G13 is the color. Both are HOAT coolants with a silicate additive. If you're going to top off with a non-VW coolant G-05 is your best option.

The older VW G-12 coolant does not have the silicate additive.

Drive more, worry less.

:)
 
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Mark SF

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Correct, NEVER add the wrong coolant to your Dub. G-12 or G-13 only. The wrong coolant can cause a reaction that can cause your coolant to gel much like cottage cheese. Distilled water would have been a much better choice even if the freezing level is raised slightly.
Question : given that G13 is a mixture of organic acid and silicates, and obviously does not form a gel, how can it be possible that adding silicates to organic acid when the organic acid is G12, would make it gel?
 

turbobrick240

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I've never used the g 05 coolant. It sounds as though it's essentially the same as the "global" stuff. I added maybe 100 ml of the "global" to my car when fairly new. Don't these passats have coolant/ radiator flux contamination issues? If so, a flush and refill might still be a good idea.
 

Ol'Rattler

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IDK this stuff 100%, but what you put in your cooling system should not be a science experiment. Holly crap we will put something in our cooling system that may or may not be compatible. Will G0-5 be comparable? IDK, but I'm not going to use it with a try it and see if it works mindset.

You may find that the G0-5 is the same except for some subtle differences that might ruin your day.
 

jrm

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with all this heater core stuff, im not sold on G13 even though I just purchased 2 more gallons with my gift card :rolleyes:
Best long life coolant for aluminum engines I have found is Honda's Type II teal color- it seems to stay "like new" forever, I threw new rings in my 1988 CR250R this summer with decade old Honda coolant in it and it was still perfect with zero electrolysis in the rad or passageways. Not sure how it would hold up to a diesel but im half temped to try it out
 

radunegru

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The only difference between BASF/Valvoline/Zerex G-05 and VW G13 is the color. Both are HOAT coolants with a silicate additive. If you're going to top off with a non-VW coolant G-05 is your best option.

The older VW G-12 coolant does not have the silicate additive.

Drive more, worry less.

:)
Than you, this is what I had in mind when I did it.
 

ben2mx

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So whats the appropriate coolant for a 2013 VW TDI and when should you consider toping it off?
G12 or G13?
 
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turbobrick240

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Good question. I think G13. I found a post from '03 by BKmetz explicitly stating that the g 05 coolant should Not be used in vw/audi engines due to the silicate content. I assume things have changed with the introduction of G13. In my '11 I recently did my timing belt and used pentofrost ++, which is the same as G12++. I only had to add a very small amount (200 ml) once when my car was maybe 6 months old.
 
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BKmetz

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So whats the appropriate coolant for a 2013 VW TDI and when should you consider topping it off? G12 or G13?
G-05 and G13 are HOAT coolants with a silicate additive. G12++ is compatible with G13. There is G12, G12+, and G12++. Because this is VW, they probably designated G13 to reduce the confusion and G12++ is probably the exact same formulation as G13.

So to answer the questions:
Top off with any G12++/G13 compatible coolant.
Top off when you see the overflow reservoir below the low level line when the engine is hot.

:)
 

turbobrick240

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Okay, I did some digging and found this:

Glysantin G05 is similar/compatible with vw G11, and has a pH of 6.5.
Glysantin G40 is the same as vw G12++ and G13, with a pH of 8.2-8.6.
I would not add G05 to G12++ or G13 based on the pH difference alone.
 

turbobrick240

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The only difference between BASF/Valvoline/Zerex G-05 and VW G13 is the color. Both are HOAT coolants with a silicate additive. If you're going to top off with a non-VW coolant G-05 is your best option.
After some research that doesn't seem entirely accurate. First of all the G-05 coolant contains borates and nitrites which the G12++/G13 do not. Also, the G-05 has an acidic pH while the G12++/G13 has a basic pH. The best non-VW branded coolants would be Glysantin G40, Pentofrost ++, Pentofrost E, or the Ravenol equivalents. They are all basically BASF Glysantin G40.
 

BKmetz

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After some research that doesn't seem entirely accurate. First of all the G-05 coolant contains borates and nitrites which the G12++/G13 do not. Also, the G-05 has an acidic pH while the G12++/G13 has a basic pH. The best non-VW branded coolants would be Glysantin G40, Pentofrost ++, Pentofrost E, or the Ravenol equivalents. They are all basically BASF Glysantin G40.
I haven't read anywhere that OAT or HOAT coolants contains borates or nitrates,. It's possible, but my take was that one of the points of going to OAT/HOAT coolants was to get away from those additives. If any coolant brand claims to use OAT/HOAT additive technology then it's PH should be more acidic, or more accurately less caustic. A PH of 7 is the neutral point on the PH scale and anything less than 7 is considered technically acidic. OAT/HOAT coolant have a slightly less caustic starting point with regards to PH because it stays stable much longer. The old school coolants would turn acidic as they aged so the starting PH level was much higher. A PH of over 8 sounds high for an OAT/HOAT coolant.

Here is a link from Glysantin's website about which of its coolant to use, which adds to the confusion. Notice BASF/Glysatin calls VW coolants Si-OAT. http://www.glysantin.de/en/application.html

Then on the G40 page Glysantin states Si-OAT the same as HOAT.
http://www.glysantin.de/en/products/g40.html

Both G05 and G40 contain silicates. G13 contains silicates. So what is the silicate content of G05, G40, and G13?

I'll posit that BASF/Glysantin had to market a specific VW/G13 clone for some obscure technical/legal reason and not because of any significant difference in the actual coolant formulation.

This is TDIClub where excessive OCD will kick in. We (myself included) will now go on a mission to sort this out only to discover that there will not be a definitive answer. The more we search for clarity the more things will become opaque. Sort of like what we have done with engine oils for the last 15 years.

;)
 
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turbobrick240

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I'll admit that I may be nitpicking the differences between the two coolants. My research was born from a combination of mild ocd and insomnia. I also found the Si-OAT description of G40. I believe Si-OAT is a distinct sub-group of HOAT. I got my initial information from what many would consider to be the best informed auto aficionado gang.
Who could possibly be better informed than old school tdi enthusiasts? Why, old school Saab enthusiasts of course! Here's a link : http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/900/index.html?blD=440193 Not sure why my link doesn't take you to the post : "]Re: Ys, G48 is the original Saab coolant.According to my Saab source, Glysantin G-05 is closest to Glysantin G48(aka vw G11), but contains nitrites/nitrates and is slightly more acidic.
 
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turbobrick240

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To add to the confusion, it seems the Zerex G-05 is more closely formuated to Glysantin G40 than Glysantin G-05. The Zerex G-05 may well be fine to mix with G12++/G13. I'll just stick with Pentofrost ++ and Pentofrost E in my golf.
 

BKmetz

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Some factoids I came across while searching info on G13. G13 uses glycerin derived from animal fats and plant oils to make ethylene-glycol instead of using mineral oil. This is suppose to be more environmentally friendly as a renewable source is used. Regardless of the source, chemically there would no difference in the end product.

This is probably why VW came out with the G13 designation, the G13 specification calls for a different source for the ethylene glycol.

Her's a link from VW explaining G13 use of glycerin as a base-stock to make ethylene-glycol.
http://www.volkswagen-parts-and-ser...ice/pflege_und_wartung/kuehlfluessigkeit.html

Here's a link that has a great graphic in explaining what VW coolant is compatible to the others. https://www.ecstuning.com/MonthlyFlyers/#?/flyers/2013/january/what-coolant-should-i-use-vw-or-audi/

:)
 

turbobrick240

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That's an interesting graphic from ecstuning. Their written descriptions of compatibility don't reference the g12+, g12++, and g13 as being compatible with g11 though. The data sheet for Glysantin G05 mentions nitrites, borates, and silicates in its formulation. It also lists a pH of between 6-7. Oddly the Zerex G05 data sheet lists a pH of 8. The Glysantin G40(G12++/G13) lists a pH of 8.2-8.6. Strangely enough, Zerex recommends their Dex-cool product rather than their G05 product for our cars. Personally, I wouldn't use either.
 

turbobrick240

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Another thing to consider is that G12++/G13 coolant might be backward compatible with cooling systems that originally called for G11 without necessarily being compatible with G11 coolant itself.
 

tdiatlast

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^^^No, but a leaking radiator in a 2-3 year old car is unacceptable. Gently persuade your dealer to share the cost of replacement.
 

radunegru

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to be more precise, 2 years and 6 mo, and 57k miles ( heater core gave up last winter- fortunately they change it under 3y36k).

What should it realistically be a trade in value for 2013 6 speed manual with 57k excellent condition in and out? I am looking a 2015 E250 Bluetec .
 

Mark SF

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Just a quick update: radiator is leaking and dealer refused to change it under the power-train warranty. Isn't the radiator part of the engine?
No, the radiator is part of the cooling system, not the engine. The powertrain warranty covers internal parts of the engine and drivetrain. Stuff that spins, or reciprocates, essentially. Your radiator does not fall into that category.
 

NarfBLAST

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to be more precise, 2 years and 6 mo, and 57k miles ( heater core gave up last winter- fortunately they change it under 3y36k).
What should it realistically be a trade in value for 2013 6 speed manual with 57k excellent condition in and out? I am looking a 2015 E250 Bluetec .

Sorry about your luck, it has been a few months, how did you make out? Thanks for starting this thread!

I just has a small coolant hose start spewing and topped up with approx 750ml of distilled water. I need to add some more coolant and my local Napa almost sold me some Zerex G05 but my spidey senses started tingling and I politely refused. After reading this thread I am glad I did not buy it. One thing that would have had me facepalming later is that Zerex comes pre mixed, but I need concentrate in order to get my mix closer to 50/50 considering three blown hoses in the past two years and I vaugely remember dumping the last of my Pentosin in last time and not being sure if it was "enough".

I think I am going to have to actually go into my VW dealer and ask for some G13.
 
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