Xman Hybrid CR170

[-:vw:-]

Hello all,

I've got a few questions regarding this turbo:

1. Has anyone gotten this thing on the dyno with a proper tune?
2. Is the advertised HP of 220-230 at the wheels or crank?
3. Can the Malone Stage III tune make full use of the capabilities of this turbo?

Turbo in question:

https://www.xmanturbos.com/product-page/2-0tdi-cr140-cjaa-cbea-cbab-bv43-52mm-billet-wheel-hybrid

 

[kashtyaatsi]

Looking at doing this same thing. Wish someone with experience would chime in.

 

[-:vw:-]

My concern here is the advertised power is at the crank which translates to ~200HP at the wheels.

Which in fact is about what the normal CR170 put's out.

So, no difference.

 

[kashtyaatsi]

The dynos I saw of the Cr170 were more like 185~whp so it seems slightly more, but not significant.

 

[-:vw:-]

Exhaust and other supporting mod's make a small difference but ya I was generalizing.

Also depends on what number you choose to go with on the drive train loss calc.

 

[GTD170]

Hello all,

I've got a few questions regarding this turbo:

1. Has anyone gotten this thing on the dyno with a proper tune?
2. Is the advertised HP of 220-230 at the wheels or crank?
3. Can the Malone Stage III tune make full use of the capabilities of this turbo?

Turbo in question:

https://www.xmanturbos.com/product-page/2-0tdi-cr140-cjaa-cbea-cbab-bv43-52mm-billet-wheel-hybrid

Exhaust and other supporting mod's make a small difference but ya I was generalizing.

Also depends on what number you choose to go with on the drive train loss calc.

I can chime in with an original cr170 turbo......UK - GTD with a stage 2 tune

I'm wondering if my bhp was measured at my wheels or crank now.....I'll ask my tuner tomorrow.

Stock...........168bhp - 258 ft-lbs

Stage 2..........214 bhp - 365 ft-lbs - 496 nm

mods:

- Uprated coolant rad (Darkside)
- S3 intercooler (Darkside)
- 3" Downpipe dpf/cat del (Darkside)
- egr + cooler del (Darkside)
- racing line cold air inake (tri-foam-filter)

>>> My Golf GTD <<<

 

[GTD170]

http://imgur.com/d6WOk5D

 

[-:vw:-]

I can chime in with an original cr170 turbo......UK - GTD with a stage 2 tune

I'm wondering if my bhp was measured at my wheels or crank now.....I'll ask my tuner tomorrow.

Stock...........168bhp - 258 ft-lbs

Stage 2..........214 bhp - 365 ft-lbs - 496 nm

mods:

- Uprated coolant rad (Darkside)
- S3 intercooler (Darkside)
- 3" Downpipe dpf/cat del (Darkside)
- egr + cooler del (Darkside)
- racing line cold air inake (tri-foam-filter)

>>> My Golf GTD <<<

Mine is similar, but 2.5" DP & Delete and Stage III Malone tune. Haven't dyno'd mine.

 

[GTD170]

Mine is similar, but 2.5" DP & Delete and Stage III Malone tune. Haven't dyno'd mine.

They pull nice but if i'm honest I want more now....270+

Ordering FIS polar so ill try get a 0-60 time but i can imagine if Xman sells the cr170 hybrid, It's gotta out-perform mine tuned surely.

 

[-:vw:-]

It's a sickness. Always more. I've got a vr6 turbo in the garage next to mine so I can get my fix that way, however I have been looking hard at a Golf SportWagen 4mo and an ea888 1.8t with the intent to is38 hybrid it...

Like I said it's a sickness.

 

[GTD170]

It's a sickness. Always more. I've got a vr6 turbo in the garage next to mine so I can get my fix that way, however I have been looking hard at a Golf SportWagen 4mo and an ea888 1.8t with the intent to is38 hybrid it...

Like I said it's a sickness.

The vr6's are nice and that is38 would be great turbo no doubt......Before buying my diesel i was contemplating saving more for a mk6 GTI as a stage 1 tune gets u 270+ with ease, but that cross of SPORT and MPG got me and it pays off. Driving in Pension mode I can easily get 650+ miles to a tank.....Filled to the neck, I'm at 340 miles half tank, although i never drain less than a 1/4 tank.

My next car will most likely be the Golf R mk6 though. Bucket list...!

I feel sick just thinking of the funds i'll have to cough up, my wish list is £6k+ in darkside basket without a turbo

 

[-:vw:-]

It was the mileage\economy that got me too friend...

It's all going to be all right

 

[GTD170]

They measured crank HP. Also its HP, not bhp like they usually do in uk. 214 hp is about 210 bhp

also DIN 70020 almost always measures high. Usually 7-10% higher than SAE J1349. SAE J1349 adjusts for temperature, humidity etc and gives a level playing field.

Nice torque and smooth power graph still!

So I'm measuring 214hp at the crank.
What would that measure at the wheels ?

Also if its nearly always 7-10% higher........higher than what ?
Is there something more industry standard or more correct ?

Do you mean the tuners equipment or software is inferior to others and my hp truly should be 7-10% less than stated ....for e.g. 193hp ?

Before using my tuner i vetted and his review base was great.

 

[MrCypherr]

So if someone was to upgrade the turbo, would it make sense to go with the Xman one or just a OG 170? When it comes to power vs power.

 

[GTD170]

Did I say tuner equipment or software was inferior at any point?

Like your ego which is also overinflated, for bragging rights tuners switch to DIN 70020 to inflate numbers to make egos feel better.

Tell him to switch to J1349 graph output to get a real world power output to the wheels. Then post your graph.

"Industry standard" measures at the crank. Manufactures do this because they offer different drivetrains which each has it's own percentage of losses. Because you can't measure at the crank without removing the engine, the program calculates an around 10-15% drivetrain loss. Hence overinflated number. Also they put it in HP to further inflate numbers a bit more.

That's the great thing about being an SAE member, you get access to all the information that manufacturers use.

Top tip for internet usage, dont believe every review you read

It was a genuine concern which needed your input ?
Usually a question mark requires an answer ?

I assure no ego was exposed...!

I saw veteran member but it seems it should be changed to hostile.

But.....Thanks

 

[-:vw:-]

What would that measure at the wheels ?

It varies WILDLY 10-15% less may be more.

So if someone was to upgrade the turbo, would it make sense to go with the Xman one or just a OG 170? When it comes to power vs power.

That's exactly what I was trying to determine lol. The costs for both are about the same. The power and torque between xman and OE 170 are also likely about the same. However I have yet to determine if xmann's advertised number is at crank or wheel.

 

[GTD170]

It varies WILDLY 10-15% less may be more.



That's exactly what I was trying to determine lol. The costs for both are about the same. The power and torque between xman and OE 170 are also likely about the same. However I have yet to determine if xmann's advertised number is at crank or wheel.

Thats a real shame but i suppose if it's the same for most, then most have inflated dyno results ?

What about factory stock power figures ? is my 168-170 stock GTD figure also measured at the crank

 

[-:vw:-]

What about factory stock power figures ? is my 168-170 stock GTD figure also measured at the crank

All manufacturers measure from the crank i believe. They are advertising "engine" power not "car" power so to speak.

 

[GTD170]

God only knows what celtic tuning are using to dyno/test their cars then because their figures for stage 1 on a stock gtd without any modifications and that includes no downpipe dpf delete....nothing, bare stock......just a tune.

They claim stock - 170bhp..........stage 1 - 227bhp

Celtic tuning cr170 mk6 stage 1

 

[GTD170]

All manufacturers measure from the crank i believe. They are advertising "engine" power not "car" power so to speak.

So when i purchased my GTD, in the real world i purchased a gt tdi 140

 

[-:vw:-]

So when i purchased my GTD, in the real world i purchased a gt tdi 140

It's probably less then that if you figure in tire slippage which happens with these high torque front wheel drive cars.

 

[GTD170]

All manufacturers measure from the crank i believe. They are advertising "engine" power not "car" power so to speak.

Actually look at their graph.....stock figures show wheel bhp stock and crank bhp stock

It seems 168bhp is measured at the wheels ???

I Spoke with Celtic tuning before i even mapped my car and i can confirm they said it was bare stock no mods only tune

 

[-:vw:-]

There you go. However that crank number looks really nice for advertising purposes. That's in line with the @ the wheel numbers here:

Cascade German Parts – Retailer of New OEM Volkswagen Audi Group Auto Parts

www.tunemyeuro.com

That's what I modeled my build off of.

 

[GTD170]

There you go. However that crank number looks really nice for advertising purposes. That's in line with the @ the wheel numbers here:

Cascade German Parts – Retailer of New OEM Volkswagen Audi Group Auto Parts

www.tunemyeuro.com

That's what I modeled my build off of.

I'm more than happy with my stage 2 tune from stock even if the numbers are inflated but now i know, I will ask for real world, wheel hp figures....maybe even another graph to show true......I don't like false figures to make my ego cream.....Real world figures is what i need.
Din70020 won't make me go faster

 

[GTD170]

There you go. However that crank number looks really nice for advertising purposes. That's in line with the @ the wheel numbers here:

Cascade German Parts – Retailer of New OEM Volkswagen Audi Group Auto Parts

www.tunemyeuro.com

That's what I modeled my build off of.

Did you manage to hit the same torque figures ?

 

[-:vw:-]

I've not dyno'd mine I live vicariously through that dyno assuming the hardware is the same and the tune is in the ballpark.

 

[GTD170]

I've not dyno'd mine I live vicariously through that dyno assuming the hardware is the same and the tune is in the ballpark.

Well that torque is on par with mine and keeps you firmly in your seat

 

[GTD170]

When it smells like BS and looks like BS....

I'll let you google search to fill in the gaps.
I'm just chiming in to call out the BS. No hostility.

Well I appreciate the chime because I was none the wiser.
But if it's what most tuners do then most tuning graphs are shown in that way.

But still I will be asking my tuner the real world figures definitely...!

Whats your take on darksides cuna dyno ?

 

[-:vw:-]

They are getting the crank numbers via software.

It's a lot cheaper then ponying up for a dyno machine.

This is the route a lot of this is going to go just have to be mindful of the conversion to wheel hp.

 

[Speedmaster_102]

Those who are running the CR170 or CR170 Hybrid, did you upgrade to CP3 HPFP or are you running the stock CP4?