X-ice Xi2 vs. Blizzak WS-60: Someone help me decide

[eb2143]

So I will be purchasing one or the other in the next week. I'm having an awfully hard time deciding on which one. I resorted to flipping coins earlier today but I thought maybe someone on TDIclub could persuade me either way. I know they are both good.

Okay, I've read ALL of the reviews on these two tires; including getting the general rank from Scandinavian reviews in Swedish/Finnish.

Does anyone have any impressions, first or otherwise of either of these two tires? (I have checked the snow tire thread, which by the way, is a great idea!)

What I've found: The X-ice Xi2 makes an awfully good first impression, considerably better than the first gen. The Blizzak, is well a Blizzak, people swear by them and the WS-60 is an all around better tire than the WS-50.

What's holding me back from spending the extra $44 on Michelins (which we have always used for all-seasons):
1) The dang tread pattern on the Michelin. Besides the sipes, it looks like a freaking all-season or a summer tire! I know technology has come a long way and these are cutting edge, but wow!

2) Michelin claims 75% better wear than the leading competitor, but I just don't want to find these things worthless after 10,000 miles, and I can't find anyone who has accumulated any miles on these things because they are only a few months old. Those sipes better be deep, because when they are gone, I don't see how the tire could possibly be effective at all.

Any comments or reviews of either tire?
X-ice

 

[CNDTDI]

I haven't had any problems with the x-ice, we almost had record amount of snow in Ottawa last winter, and I never got stuck I pulled my grandmothers grand-am out of the 2 feet of snow.

she was in the car stepping on the gas gently as I was making a trail with my car and pulling her car lol

 

[pruzink]

I would go with the X-Ice Xi2. I just put a set on my wife's Mazda 6i, they were a very nice & quiet snow tread but we haven't driven them in snow yet. My son has the last year's version the plain X-Ice & he said they were very good in snow last winter. About 4 years ago when I was trying to decide what snow tires to get for my & my daughter's Jettas, I had looked through quite a few reviews on the Blizzaks and I saw many complaints about tread life. Many of the reviews said that the Blizzak uses a softer tread compound on the 1st 50% of the tread that bites well in the snow, but that it wore out faster than most tires & that the last 50% did not perform well in snow. Since then, they may have made changes to their tires, but back then when I read up on this I had decided it would be 1 snow tire that I definitely would not buy. I ended up getting Nokian Hakka 2's for my & daughter's cars which have been excellant in the snow. My only complaint on the Hakka 2's would be that the tread noise is louder than my wife's X-Ice Xi2's.

 

[streeker02]

xi2 is a higher speed rated tire than the ws60, that alone would make up my mind....snow and ice performance is excellent on either product.

(I sell tires for a living)

 

[posterChild]

My apologies for throwing a wrench into this comparison, but as I've wondering the same thing, and I came across yet another option that I'd like input on, I'll muddy the waters.

Michelin also carries the Primacy Alpin PA3 which seems to be just about exactly the same tire as the xi2, but with an H rating. Anyone care to comment on these tires as compared to the other two? I'm still not clear on the differences between studless snow and ice versus performance winter.

In any case, any additional info is greatly appreciated.

posterChild

 

[eb2143]

Thanks for all the helpful opinions everyone.

To the last poster, they are similar but the primacy is aimed more at performance on dry roads than the X-ice. (It's a "performance winter" vs "studdless snow"). You can tell between the tread patterns the primacy has less of those very important small groves I've been referring to as sipes, and I might expect the primacy compound to be a little stiffer for better turning at the cost of cold temperature snow performance.

 

[N4teTheGreat]

I've never run ice x tires. My Blizzacks are good, but the ws-60 is soft, so they aren't the best on dry roads if you like to go fast and fear wear. However the only time I even got semi stuck was when I high centered my car on wet snow, even then I just backed out and attacked the alley from the non plowed side and was fine. They are great in the snow.

 

[LessIsMore]

I just bought Primacy Alpin PA3s because they are H91, happily ridding myself of WS-50s even though they had some snow tread left on them. I've had three sets of Blizzaks on three different vehicles, and they have all been clodhoppers on pavement. The winter tire concept of the Alpin PA3s is much more appealing to me now. So far, all I can say about Alpin PA3s is that they feel a lot more like an all season tire in handling and on the highway, and they are fairly quiet. What I wanted and expected.

 

[eb2143]

Just ordered the X-ice Xi2!...will post in the snow tire thread when I get some miles on them...

 

[silverbox]

I look forward to hearing how they work in snow, I currently have PA2's they are so so in the snow but this is my 3rd winter season on them.

I just bought Primacy Alpin PA3s because they are H91, happily ridding myself of WS-50s even though they had some snow tread left on them. I've had three sets of Blizzaks on three different vehicles, and they have all been clodhoppers on pavement. The winter tire concept of the Alpin PA3s is much more appealing to me now. So far, all I can say about Alpin PA3s is that they feel a lot more like an all season tire in handling and on the highway, and they are fairly quiet. What I wanted and expected.

 

[posterChild]

I currently run Blizzak WS-50s on my Infiniti G35 and they have been fantastic. Honestly, they transformed that car from a death-sled to a very capable winter driver. I'm interested in the Alpins for the reasons others have mentioned, particularly the sub-par feel of the Blizzaks at speed on the highway. They aren't loose, but the certainly feel softer than an all-season or dedicated summer tire (obviously). I was hoping that the Alpin might solve that by compromising a bit towards the dry-cold handing.

LessIsMore, please comment back after you get a run at some snow with a comparison on how the Alpins compare to the Blizzaks. I think I'm of the same mind that you are and I'm hoping you'll offer feedback that helps break the tie between WS-60s and Alpins for the Jetta.

Cheers,

posterChild

 

[WriConsult]

My apologies for throwing a wrench into this comparison, but as I've wondering the same thing, and I came across yet another option that I'd like input on, I'll muddy the waters.

Michelin also carries the Primacy Alpin PA3 which seems to be just about exactly the same tire as the xi2, but with an H rating. Anyone care to comment on these tires as compared to the other two? I'm still not clear on the differences between studless snow and ice versus performance winter.

In any case, any additional info is greatly appreciated.

posterChild

Primacy Alpin is a completely different tire than the X-Ice. The X-Ice is a more traditional snow tire marketed more towards family cars, the Primacy Alpin is a performance winter tire marketed more towards performance cars (hence the H rating). With the Primacy Alpin you get better performance on wet and dry pavement in exchange for less performance in deep snow. Both are supposed to be comparable to each other (in other words, excellent) on ice or packed snow, and I believe both are advertised as low rolling resistance tires by Michelin.

 

[Pat Dolan]

If there is any significant difference in the Michelin vs. Bridgestone question, I would say that if you drive more pavement than snow and ice, Michelin has some advantages. If you are more concerned with performance on actual winter conditions (that is, where roads aren't salted to bare/wet constantly) then the Blizzaks are far better. The very high void content of the BS top 50% tread is going to bed squishy on pavement. That is how/why they work on ice. Also, don't forget the "bite particles" in WS60 - another significant black ice advantage.

If you are concerned about wear rates, IMHO you have your priorities in the wrong direction.

 

[WriConsult]

What most people don't understand is all snow tires have a very short life on dry pavement once burning through that top layer of grippy stuff. After that top little layer is burned through it's just an all-season tire.

The Blizzaks are known for having a dual tread compound with the softer/stickier stuff on the outside and harder compound underneath, but I don't believe the Michelin or Nokian tires I've used are constructed that way.

I've never seen a huge change in grip as my tires have worn ... and mine DO wear, because I live in a part of the country where you need snow tires for weekend trips to the mountains but in the lowlands you rack up your daily miles it's bare wet pavement most of the time. Snow grip has decreased with treadwear on most of the winter tires I've used, but only to the degree that would be expected with a shallower tread. Ice grip has been unaffected.

 

[streeker02]

What most people don't understand is all snow tires have a very short life on dry pavement once burning through that top layer of grippy stuff. After that top little layer is burned through it's just an all-season tire.

Quite wrong...even the first generation of Michelin X Ice uses APS rubber technology; just google "Michelin adaptive progressive stiffness" and you'll see. The carcass is quite firm, while the rubber constantly softens at the contact point with the road to allow for both a rigid carcass and a soft compound where it matters.

http://www.swampfox.ws/the-new-mich...-bite-out-of-snowy-and-icy-driving-conditions

Read more here about X ice rubber technology....

http://www.michelinwintercenter.com/#/

 

[BrianCT]

SNIP

The tread remains soft as the tire continues to wear, allowing for optimal
ice and snow traction. The tread compound features Michelin's most advanced
silica-generation rubber, further adding to the Michelin X-Ice tire's ice and
snow grip.

I stand corrected if this technology holds true. If true it's far better then the Blizzaks hands down.

BrianCT

 

[Abacus]

We now have 1/4" to 1/2" of ICE all over everything and I just drove home 30 miles, most of it on route 1, which was slushy and icy in parts. The hardest part was coming out of work, up a hill that is so slick I literally could not even stand still without sliding, and the car (B4) made it up the hill without even hinting it was icy, stopped at the gate, and started out again (with very minimal slippage). I put new Blizzak WS-60's on it about 900 miles ago (last week) and have been very impressed thus far. Tonight they paid for themselves by making the car feel like it was simply on wet pavement.

I have no experience with the Michelins, but battled with the same question a week ago. The Blizzak's could be had locally and were very highly touted by some friends of mine, so I went with them.

 

[Sootman]

Ditto what Abacus says. The WS-60's are great and are quiet on dry pavement. Have had these on 2 cars now. I have not tried the Michelins though.

 

[BrianCT]

Ditto what Abacus says. The WS-60's are great and are quiet on dry pavement. Have had these on 2 cars now. I have not tried the Michelins though.

My first Blizzaks were the WS-50's. I had the 205/55-16's and on dry pavement under hard braking they were a little squishy. After three seasons I moved over to the WS-60's, same size and the dry weather handling was greatly improved but I only have one season on them so far. These are 2 ply reinforced side walls which make a big difference in handling. I haven't really tested any other dedicated snow tire other then the BLizzaks. For the moment I'm still running the Good Year Eagle F1-All Seasons which ...are just fine for the moment.

I'd be interested in the Michelins after reading about the long life tread supporting snow-ice traction.

 

[oil_me]

I also had the same agonizing dilemma and I went with the Michelins. They've been excellent so far with a bit of snow & ice we've had here. I must say also they really have fine dry pavement response, noise is negligible. I'll comment again when I hit deep snow. These are my first Michelins. I recently moved off a mountain after 20 years and always used Nokias where I had alot of snow and not as much ice. We'll see.

 

[Bosley]

Just put the new Michelins (Xi2) on today.

 

[20IndigoBlue02]

throw another wrench in.... if I still had my MK4, I'd still be running Green Diamonds for the winter (had a fresh set when the car got totalled).

Right now, running Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSI for the second season

 

[LessIsMore]

Finally drove in some heavy snow w/ the Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3s. Temp. was about 30F. Simply put, these are not snow tires. However, I have found them to be excellent cold weather rain tires, and they're very competent on the highway.

 

[BrianCT]

Finally drove in some heavy snow w/ the Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3s. Temp. was about 30F. Simply put, these are not snow tires. However, I have found them to be excellent cold weather rain tires, and they're very competent on the highway.

Don't be fooled, the State threw down Beet salt instead of Mag-chloride. Myself, I'm having issues with my new Blizzak WS-60's in places that I've never had issues before. Give them a second shot.

I changed over my snows today just in time. But like I said, the tires are sliding all over the place because the DOT threw down some funky combination of green salts that have left a layer of freezing ice under the fluffy snow.

It's a rink out there right now.

 

[Wilkins]

I had a set of first generation Alpins on my 4 Runner and was not impressed. They were great on hard packed snow and ice but useless when it was cold and anti icing chemicals had been put on the roads. When that happens the snow doesn't melt, doesn't bond to the pavement, but sits on top and slides around. It seemed that the Alpin with all its sipes wouldn't bite through the mess to the pavement below. It would just slide around in the loose snow unable to grab anything solid. Biggest problem was, going from hardpack to an area where the deicing had been done, I would suddenly lose about half my traction.

Now that was the first generation with almost no longitudinal grooves. The newer ones have a lot more grooves and the problem may have been solved.

 

[posterChild]

Finally drove in some heavy snow w/ the Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3s. Temp. was about 30F. Simply put, these are not snow tires. However, I have found them to be excellent cold weather rain tires, and they're very competent on the highway.

We just had 9+" of snow. I opted for the Alipin PA3s last week to give them a shot. I totally agree that they are not full on snow tires, although they are far superior to the all-seasons I had on there. They do nicely on the highway and packed snow. Loose snow is a little more sketchy, but I certainly feel confident driving on them.

By far the most 'butt-dyno' thing about these tires is the feeling of improved stopping on wet surfaces. We had pretty crappy roads last week with a layer of rain/snow/slush on the highway and stopping seemed much more like dry pavement stopping than either all-seasons or my Blizzaks.

Have had the tires for less than a week, I think I'd go for Blizzaks next time just for the more aggressive 'trail blazing' aspect of the tire. I live out in the country where I may well be the first person down an unplowed dirt road and I'm sure the Alpins will do ok, the Blizzaks feel like they're doing significantly more to grab at whatever is available for traction.

btw, on an unrelated-related topic... anyone who is talking about snow tires should already have a skid plate installed. That thing has saved my butt so many times in the 5 months I've had it that I'm not sure if I'd give up my tires or my skid plate first.

posterChild

 

[eb2143]

Michelin Xice Xi2 mounted to the Borbet rims I picked up went on the Jetta today. I'll get plenty of snow driving in in the next week.

My very initial reaction (based on a short mix of hardpack snow roads and salted slush roads) is that the greatest difference is in braking, followed by acceleration...lateral traction for going around corners doesn't seem very different to me compared to some worn all-season Pilots they replaced, so that was a little disappointing.

Question: I'm running 38 front 40 rear, about what I run in the summer, (max inflation is 51psi on these); do you guys run different pressures on snow tires v. summer?

 

[eb2143]

Interesting. And those are WS-60s right?
Any of the so called "high mpg" low rolling resistance winters (X-ice or Hakka R) owners also running in low 30s?

I will at least drop the rear to 38 tonight as a start, as it was getting out pretty easily tonight. I am kind of a mpg guy so I've never run below 38.

 

[Bosley]

I played front and back and found that equal pressure was working best.

That's my opinion. On snow you're not really all about mileage figures.

Words to live by. Adjust the t/p to the conditions you are driving in.

 

[eb2143]

Words to live by. Adjust the t/p to the conditions you are driving in.

True, but it's important to remember snow covered roads only make up 10-15% of winter driving on average in these parts. Unless you adjust for every storm, you have to find a tradeoff pressure.

And what do you run your new X-ices at during the height of the winter season in BC?