WWYD: '99 Jetta vs. '00 Hyundai Accent?

[Jigme]

OK, I know this is a bit like asking a Frenchman whether he prefers wine or beer, but here goes. Being new to V-dubs I could really use some advice. I asked in the a previous thread (Newbie ?: High mileage 1999 Jetta TDI) advice about a '99 Jetta with 316,000 km (196,353 miles) on it with a few issues the mechanic promised he will fix (loose struts, rear bearings, and a rusted coolant pipe). He wants $4,900 CND firm. It also has rust on the front edge of the hood and roof. He claims it was driven by a woman to commute a long distance to work everyday. (I believe him.)

I walked away from it a week ago mainly because I'm worried that a VW diesel of this year and mileage will cost me an arm and a leg in repairs which I really can't afford. This Jetta has power everything and a sunroof. I se it is still sitting in his lot for sale. Consumer Reports and Edmund's "Lemon Aid" and have nothing good to say about VW's and/or TDI's, and looking around this Forum it seems there are ALOT of expensive repairs lurking (timing belt, cleaning the intake and EGR). What say ye to this perception of VW's and TDI's?

The car I may buy is a 2000 Hyundai Accent with 106,000 km, $4,600 CND, super clean, and I believe cheaper to repair and maintain by a long shot. I know, it's not in the same league as a Jetta in terms of handling, comfort etc. but it's cheap and dependable.

Please fell free to set me straight on the repair/dependability issue. As you can tell a part of me REALLY wants the Jetta.

 

[jasonTDI]

99.5 or 99? Newer body style? You have a lot of others near you that can help.

Ask about the timing belt and the last time it was changed. Not just the belt but the water pump and the roillers etc. Also when was the intake cleaned?

 

[oilhammer]

Well, as the owner of an '03 Accent and previous owner of a '91 Excel and a '90 Sonata, I'd say that Hyundais are pretty decent cars for the money. Cheap, dependable, flimsy .

But keep in mind, many things like timing belts and such the Accent needs, too. It's not like you simply can avoid taking care of it, doesn't work that way.

My '91 Excel had both its engine and automatic transmission replaced before 100k miles (I got the car in need of the engine, then one month later the trans died ). My '91 Jetta is still going strong with nearly 4 times the use with a 100% original driveline.

Not sure what the exchange rate is, but I'd say a 2000 Accent should be worth about 1/2 of what a '99.5 Jetta is worth. I bought my '03 brand new for about $9000 US (3 door with A/C and auto trans). It is probably only worth about $5000 now, so look around for prices.

Most problems you read about TDIs and Volkswagens in general have a good explanation, and in many cases it is poor owner maintenance or poor understanding of what the car requires. It is not the car itself.

But if you want cheap, cheap, cheap, the Accent is a great [short term] car. I wouldn't want to be driving it after 150k miles, myself, but a Volkswagen at 150k miles is just a baby.

 

[Jigme]

This is an early '99, not the '99.5 Jetta. I will ask the mechanic about the timing belt, water pump etc. There are two good diesel/VW mechanics here so I think I'm OK in that dept.

Oilhammer - you make a good point about the Hyundai's short life that I haven't considered. Also, I do believe this is a very high price for this little car. I've just spent the last 1.5 hours reading up in this Forum about reliablilty and despite all the potential problems I am heavily leaing towards the TDI at this moment. Other things like resale value, mileage, longevlity and just more fun to drive are very postive considerations. Thanks for your advice, both of you.

 

[oilhammer]

Ah, an early '99. Then I would go with the Jetta without a doubt. Despite being less sophisticated and not quite as well mannered on the road as the A4 cars, the A3 is far simpler and less troublesome, with a generally more robust build mechanically.

I owned an A3 Jetta TDI before our Passat, it was a very good car. I would not have sold it except we wanted something bigger and I was afraid Volkswagen would quit (once again) importing Passat TDIs. I was right.

 

[Jigme]

Jeez oilhammer, you are making this hard! Your comment makes me think I could live with this car even tho' I'm not a tinkerer. I'll talk to the mechanic today to see what I can find out about the timing belt etc. I'm verbally committed to the Accent but hey, it's the car biz, right?!?

 

[cattlerepairman]

Jetta vs accent

My daughter bought an 04 Accent. She has had it for a few months now. Given the model year, it was a reasonably cheap buy. For the money, it is an ok car - if that is the type of car you want. Nothing feels "solid" and everything screams "cheap" right at you. You accept it, because, hey, you bought a cheap car. It gets you from A to B, perhaps better than the price tag may suggest. Nothing is in any way outstanding, not even the fuel economy. It guzzles more than one thinks it should, given the small 1.6 engine and "intelligent" automatic transmission. I cannot comment on reliability as the car is a youngster with a mere 60k km on it.

The A3 is in a different league, in my opinion, regarding design, life expectancy and overall "feel" of the car.

 

[NFSTDI]

My mother wanted an affordable car a couple years back. When I say affordable I mean something cheap and reliable she could pay outright for. She's a savy woman so she consulted a few trusted mechanics before shopping. As many of us know any Toyota with a 22R is bulletproof! Her previous car was one of those so she is quite familiar. Unfortunately most of those models are a bit long in the tooth these days.

Prior to that she owned a Honda Accord. Another well made reliable car worth owning for as long as I can remember. Anyway, let's get back on track here. Her most trusted mechanic said the following....BUY A TOYOTA! If you can't find a Toyota, buy a Toyota! If you can't find a Toyota, buy a Toyota! If you just can't find a suitable Toyota in your price range then get a HONDA!

At that time I was assisting her so I also consulted my mechanic. As it happened we were considering a new Hyundai for my family. He agreed with the aforementioned mechanic and turned his nose up at the Korean knock off of a Japanese knock off of a European car. I pointed out the one-hundred thousand mile warranty and he just snickered.

Now I am not saying that you can not get value out of a Hyundai but why take a risk on poor odds. Better to gamble on a statistically proven brand such as Toyota, Honda.....or yes, VW.

Why did I get a TDI. Becuase I wanted one. Never mind the fact that my mechanic mentioned to me in passing that he had been buying them up at out of state auctions for every one in his family!

That said I will offer the following. If you want a car that is fun to drive, gets great gas milage and will last a very long time get a TDI. If you just don't have the means to anti up for an occasional expensive repair then go find a good Toyota or possibly a Honda. Keep in mind you may still have to anti up no matter what car you have.

Although you should always consider every vehicle on it's own merits I would be highly suspect of any used Mazda, Hyundai, or Kia, etc. I am sure there are lots of people who have had great experience with all of these brands keep in mind I am a locksmith. I have taken apart the door panels and worked on the locks of pretty well every car on the road. In my experience Hondas are made with decent materials and designs, Toyotas are far superior, VWs, BMWs, Volvos, and MBZs are bulletproof, and Mazdas are junk!

I own stock in both Honda and Toyota so I am slightly biased. I'd buy VW too if I could. I drive a TDI and would buy another in a heart beat! In fact I plan to convert my entire family if they let me.

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, I have a 19 year old "junk" Mazda with 404k miles on it... Never broken down, either. Its only issue has been rust.

Newer Mazdas are Fords for the most part, with some exception. The 3, the 6, the '94-up trucks, all Fords. The MPV uses a Ford engine.

Hyundai offers 90% the reliability of a Toyota at 60% the cost.

 

[tjl]

Hyundai offers 90% the reliability of a Toyota at 60% the cost.

But only recently. Hyundai has made immense improvements in desirability, quality, and reliability since the late 1990s. Prior to that, the main appeal of Hyundai cars was low price.

 

[Thermo1223]

Hyundai has been up the up since 2000,

We have a '01 Accent GL(4 door sedan,auto,A/C)

Mechanically it has only had transmission issues of which I attribute to it being a Mitsubishi design since Kia, Hyundai, Mitsubishi all use the same fluid. The trans was always fixed free just took some time. It was replaced at 33k with a rebuilt unit. It has had other issues but only because the dealer techs were idiots.

It is quiet at idle, runs well and has another 4 years/30k miles left on the warrenty.

I do agree with another poster in saying it uses more gas then I think it should at times. Once it rolls over 100k it will probaley be worth like $1000 so we may just keep it around as a "what if car" or pass it down to a family member.

I would still get the TDI though considering it will get better fuel economy and has a lesser chance of breaking down as long as it is maintained compared to a more complex gasser. Also most TDI people you meet are friendly as hell and will offer to help you with lots of things.

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, I'll agree they have improved a lot since the earlier years.

Older Hyundais used Mitsubishi designs, just made in Korea. Most of the parts were even interchangeable. The 1.5L SOHC engine in my '91 Excel was a carbon-copy of the Mitsubishi 1.5L engine found in the Mirage of the same vintage. And, just like almost every Mitsubishi of the time period, the Hyundai burned massive amounts of oil and left little blue smoke trails behind it, which is why I got mine for $100 with a locked up engine...previous owner ran it out of oil, despite several warnings.

The newer cars still have a lot of Mitsubishi design influence, but Hyundai (and now Kia) are doing a lot more in house.

Our '03 Accent is driven mainly by my in-laws, but it has not had a peep of trouble. While the engine sounds like an angry hairdryer when pushed, it does putt around town without any problems. With the automatic, it is not great fuel economy-wise, and the engine doesn't have enough torque to allow tall gearing so highway MPG isn't really that stellar either.

But for the in-laws that came from a GM A-body bomb that puked some part up almost monthly this little Accent seems like the greatest thing since sliced bread. All they need to do is turn the key and put gas in it.

 

[DSL HED]

I'm glad that others have had positive experiences with Hyundai, consider yourselves lucky!

My wife and I bought a 2001 Accent (4 door GL automatic) sedan brand new in May 2001, the first new car for either of us. We ended up trading it in June of 2003 because it was turning into a POS with only 40000 miles on it. We had about 4 different occasions where we had to take it to the dealer for transmission issues - it was towed in twice. I don't remember all the details of the visits, but we traded it because it had a habit of needing new transmission parts like control modules more often than it should have.

Its final resting place was a combination VW/Mazda/Ford/Hyundai dealer in Auburn, Maine. My wife was attempting to drive it home after its last service visit to fix the broken module, and it started misbehaving again. We limped it back to the lot, and we went over to the VW side of the dealer and ended up buying a 2003 Jetta TDI.

The Accent had some extended stays at the dealer, and luckily we did get a nice Santa Fe, Sonata, and Elantra as loaners for my wife. However, during all this I owned a 1989 Jetta TD. Never a problem with it. It was our "reliable" car, even though it was 13-14 years old and had 235K miles on it.

The Accent didn't cost us a lot (something like $12000 new), and it did get us around for about 2 years. The warranty and service were decent. Beyond that, light winds would almost blow it off the highway, fuel economy wasn't great, and it just didn't feel very safe. I hope the Accent you're looking at has a 5 speed, maybe it won't be quite so bad. But I'd be more inclined to get the Jetta even with the high mileage. As of today, I have just under 90000 miles on my Jetta, and it's never had a major problem. Just routine items have been replaced, which I've done myself for everything except an alignment, thanks to all the knowledge here at the TDIClub.

As long as it's maintained, that Jetta should function for a while longer. I don't want to scare you away from the Accent, I just don't want anyone else to experience what we did.

Just my 2 cents about my Hyundai and VW experiences.

 

[alphaseinor]

From what I remember the Hyundai Excel was a Dodge Colt, but made cheaper (and that's not saying much). The Colt was not a very reliable car, but very cheap to repair. I rebuilt my '84 Colt Turbo GTS with a Hyundai Excel Block, and head... Total cost in 1996 was about $800 with having it bored .1 over and all of the gaskets, and stuff... The turbo went next... $300... Soo a $400 car Plus $800 Plus $300 is about $1,500... not to bad considering I drove that puppy for 100,000 miles before it threw a rod...

 

[Thermo1223]

DSL HED...

The pulse generator was the likely culprit...ours went 3 times already.

It causes the transmission to limp in 3rd gear and finally caused it to burn the thing up at 33k. So far at 68k it has been problem free in that regard with a tiny misfire problem due to a sparkplug wire.

I agree, not that great in crosswinds on the highway but your right for $11500(for her) it was better then buying a used car with questionable history and no warrenty. All she needed was A-B and it does that just fine.

If it goes again before 100k I will make the dealer put an extended warrenty on the thing if she still needs to use it. She wants a new Rabbit but we are gonna wait till 2008 and beyond to see what our options will be for diesel.

I do like my MIL's Sonata, beats out a Camry or Accord for the price and looks and runs just as well.

 

[Jigme]

Thanks to this Forum I passed on the Hyundai and bought the '99 Jetta TDI. I feel like a kid on prom night, nervous (about repairs) and excited. I hope to connect with the Nova Scotia TDI'ers and learn more and see if I done good or not.

There really is no comparison of these cars except for the prices I've been offered. The VW is a superior machine and people's comments here about longevity, safety, and depreciation make sense. Plus, the VW is a gas to drive especially in the highway. Thanks everyone.

Black '99 5-speed Jetta TDI 340k kilometers (211,266 miles)

 

[Thermo1223]

It is the better car for the money even with an issue here or there...which always are some electrical compenent, the engine is mechnically overbuilt for itself.

 

[NFSTDI]

Yes, I have a 19 year old "junk" Mazda with 404k miles on it... Never broken down, either. Its only issue has been rust.

Newer Mazdas are Fords for the most part, with some exception. The 3, the 6, the '94-up trucks, all Fords. The MPV uses a Ford engine.

Hyundai offers 90% the reliability of a Toyota at 60% the cost.

There is always the exception to every rule. The question is did you purchase new?

I stand by my opinion which is based on the quality of the locks used on various brands. It's also based on repairing and replacing thousands of said locks on thousands of cars. I did three years of emergency service for AAA in Contra Costa and Alameda county. That's only three of the last twenty years I have been a locksmith.

I have had many friends who have purchase new Mazda's and loved them. I purchased a used Toyota and had a mediocre experience. Every brand makes some lemons but some brands just use inferior parts, have poor gas milage, and overall lousy cars. Take Yugo for example, junk! Oh, then there is Renault. I'm sure there are lots of Europeans who love them but I'd never own one.

Yes, it's true MAZDA and FORD are now joined at the hip however in the price range he is shopping for I'd still buy a Toyota or a Honda.

 

[oilhammer]

I cannot say I've ever had a Mazda door lock apart, never needed to, but I would not base an opinion of any vehicle solely on that.

What I have done over the years is worked on many, many cars, including Mazdas (real ones, not Fords) and cannot say they are a bad car at all.

I have owned 3 pickups, still have one, my brother has owned two of them, still has one, my brother-in-law owned one, and my family has had an '85 626, and an '88 626 (my sister still drives the '88 every day, with just over 300k miles). My cousin owns a '91 Protege, purchased from a friend who purchased it new. NONE of these cars has ever broken down or needed major repairs save for the '88 626 which blew a rdaiator and the previous owner cooked the engine. I bought the car, rebuilt it, and sold it to my sister 5 years ago.

I could go on... but these cannot all be exceptions to the rule.

 

[NFSTDI]

My point is simple. I take cars apart and put them back together. I have taken thousand of cars apart over the years. As with anything there will always by those who play devil's advocate. Obviously you don't judge a book by it's cover but if you read the table of contents and the notes in the inside of the front and back you have a pretty good idea what you are in for.

I would not purchase a used Mazda but if you are feeling lucky I'll be happy to cheer you on!

 

[dieseldorf]

the A3 is far simpler and less troublesome, with a generally more robust build mechanically.

X2, and I'll add rare and desirable to that list.


Grab somebody local and find out if this car is another basket case before you say 'I do'. Welcome aboard!