WVO TDI hits 100K miles

[BioDiesel]

Update:
Hit 100K miles after about 6 years.
Car recently set a new top speed record of 105 mph / 168 kmph.
Best was 95 mph before. So I haven't lost any compression.
Still starts instantly.

http:/ctbiodzl.freeshell.org/votdi.html

1998 VW Jetta TDI 180K miles total.
Mods: Elsbett single tank kit. Stock tank only, FPHE, modified injectors, advanced timing.
Everything else is stock including the EGR.
No performance mods.

Filtering: Primitive. Cold filtered from absolute rated 1 micron filter bags hanging over buckets. Settle filtered to remove water and acids.

 

[Lug_Nut]

1998 VW Jetta TDI 180K miles total.
Mods: Elsbett single tank kit.

To anyone considering a VO kit for a TDI, be very wary of those that are not as well thought out or as well engineered as the Elsbett.

 

[oilhammer]

Update:
Hit 100K miles after about 6 years.
Car recently set a new top speed record of 105 mph / 168 kmph. Really? My stock brand new 1998 Jetta TDI would hit 120 easily.
Best was 95 mph before. So I haven't lost any compression.
Still starts instantly. that is NOT a sign of good compression, and most WVO cars actually get HIGHER compression as the piston tops gunk up (I have had one with over 600 psi!)

....

Thanks for your 'update', but I am not sure how relevent it really is. And I agree the Elsbett system is the best engineered of these...but to me that is like saying XXX brand of gun is the best to shoot yourself in the foot with.

But anyways, good luck to you.

 

[SnowCub]

Update:
Hit 100K miles after about 6 years.
Car recently set a new top speed record of 105 mph / 168 kmph.
Best was 95 mph before. So I haven't lost any compression.

How does the top speed test verify that you haven't lost any compression?

 

[BioDiesel]

"Really? My stock brand new 1998 Jetta TDI would hit 120 easily. "

Apples and oranges. I doubt your TDI was fueled with 90% WVO/10% ULSD/0.5% Turpentine.

WVO has 10% less BTU/gallon than diesel and it definately loses power above 3500 RPM.
It's just slower to burn. I can only report what my TDI did. At about 70K miles while running B100 afer a 60k history of petro, it maxed out at 95-100 mph. Maybe the IC could use a cleaning?


"that is NOT a sign of good compression, and most WVO cars actually get HIGHER compression as the piston tops gunk up (I have had one with over 600 psi!)"

Have the same gunked up pistons also post travelled 100k miles?
If so I'll take a set of 4.


Top speed is an indirect measure of compression.
Ever tried hitting 105 mph with a stock TDI that was very low on compression?

Also, the cylinder head was off to repair a broken extractor at 18K miles ago. Combustion chamber looked 'very good condition' according to mechanic.Better than average petro fueled diesels. He didn't recommend taking the WVO kit out. He was curious how it worked and how I collected WVO, etc...

I didn't see any signs of gunk buildup at the rings.
EGR is also completly clean. The EGR and IC have never been removed for cleaning.

Just shows what is possible if you run a clean fuel.

PS: I stopped keeping track a few years ago, but at the time I had saved roughly $5000 in fuel costs over biodiesel.
since then I've purchased WVO at $1.50/gallon and often SVO at $3-6/gallon, so i have no idea any longer where
the finances come out.

 

[oilhammer]

I would LOVE to see a pic of the pistons on a WVO car that look clean. I really would. Because then we could find out what magic that person possesses that all the rest are lacking.

610 psi of compression is not good. Not at all. That is in the territory of cracked pistons, broken rings, and bent rods. You do not want that.

Since I have never seen a petroleum-fueled TDI with low compression, I cannot say how hard it would be to get to 105 mph. I'll try if I ever do.

 

[BioDiesel]

"I would LOVE to see a pic of the pistons on a WVO car that look clean. I really would. Because then we could find out what magic that person possesses that all the rest are lacking."

The sad thing is that I actually HAD them!
Took many pics of the cc's with the head off.
Then lost the camera.

About the best I could do now is look at others photo's and say it was worse than or better than ...

There were thin carbon deposits on about 50% of the piston crown and cyl. head.
The rest was clean metal. Cyl. walls lacked obvious scratches.
Two lifters were worn and replaced all at 162K total miles.

There isn't any magic. Elsbett designed their own multi-fuel engine 30 years ago.
Their kits modify the injectors. They're working on single tank kits for the new CR M-B's
They know what they're doing.

 

[T'sTDI]

It blows my mind that you still run a functional EGR, but I believe you have had to clean it a time or two right?

I think more than anything, Elsbett requires the operator to pay close attention to ones car to ensure success, i.e mixing percentages right to achieve the right combustion and minimal smoke. It blows my mind that what they do in the conversion is considered "revolutionary" by some people when in actuality, it comes down to common sense modifications...

Great stuff Biodiesel, keep on keeping on.

 

[Gearhead51]

Does anybody have any idea what they do to the injectors? Higher pop pressures? Different nozzles? If so, how?

Is there a reflash involved?

 

[BioDiesel]

Hi T's,

"but I believe you have had to clean it a time or two right?"

I've never HAD to clean it out, but it has been cleaned by bd.

I bought the car at 60k petro miles. EGR was sooted/gunked up about 3/8" deep then. I ran a few tankfulls of B100, which gave it a 'bd enema'. Got HUGE clouds of soot for about a week. Reinspection showed the EGR was clean with only a thin oily yellow film. There was still gunk downstream in the intake which I swabbed out as much as I could with a rag. But otherwise never cleaned until 162K. EGR never removed, IC never removed. While the cyl. head was off at 162K miles, the mechnics cleaned out the head and intake since they were off and were clogged with the original soot/gunk. Power came up and I think thats primarily why I went from 95-100 max up to 105 max.

The important point is that after the bd enema, it's run almost 120K miles on B100 and WVO and is not accumulating soot/gunk in the EGR.

A few others, such as Old Navy (?) reproduced the 'bd enema' effect. But several couldn't.

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[BioDiesel]

Gearhead51:
"Does anybody have any idea what they do to the injectors?"
It's proprietary. user Darren_UK probably knows the most. He has lots of posts on it here.

" Higher pop pressures?"
no.

" Different nozzles?"
yes. For single tanks only.


"Is there a reflash involved?"
yes. For single tank PD's only.

 

[T'sTDI]

Hi T's,

"but I believe you have had to clean it a time or two right?"

I've never HAD to clean it out, but it has been cleaned by bd.

I bought the car at 60k petro miles. EGR was sooted/gunked up about 3/8" deep then. I ran a few tankfulls of B100, which gave it a 'bd enema'. Got HUGE clouds of soot for about a week. Reinspection showed the EGR was clean with only a thin oily yellow film. There was still gunk downstream in the intake which I swabbed out as much as I could with a rag. But otherwise never cleaned until 162K. EGR never removed, IC never removed. While the cyl. head was off at 162K miles, the mechnics cleaned out the head and intake since they were off and were clogged with the original soot/gunk. Power came up and I think thats primarily why I went from 95-100 max up to 105 max.

The important point is that after the bd enema, it's run almost 120K miles on B100 and WVO and is not accumulating soot/gunk in the EGR.

A few others, such as Old Navy (?) reproduced the 'bd enema' effect. But several couldn't.

Thanks for the encouragement.

That really amazes me that your intake didn't soot up as much as I thought it would have. I guess deposits really only occur in the combustion phase and thats if your combustion efficiency is that poor which yours was not.

As for the injectors, sure they might be special, but IMO the timing advancement which is needed to ensure a good complete burn is the key to Elsbett's success. That and a well versed competent operator that knows what they are doing.

How is the cold filtering by the way? How long does it take for the oil to filter though??

Success is great to hear. Awesome!

 

[BioDiesel]

Cold filtered

"How is the cold filtering by the way? How long does it take for the oil to filter though??"

C.F. is S-L-O-W.
In my 32-70*F garage I go from 0 to 2 gallons/day/3' filterbag.
I usually have to buy virgin SVO Dec. - March
Although a 1500W electric radiant space heater 2' away can keep the WVO + filter warm.
This year I will try to stockpile a couple barrels.

 

[T'sTDI]

We put the stock in stockpile. We have over 700 gallons of WVO stored... haha

Mad Max anybody???

 

[TDIJetta99]

I would LOVE to see a pic of the pistons on a WVO car that look clean. I really would. Because then we could find out what magic that person possesses that all the rest are lacking.

610 psi of compression is not good. Not at all. That is in the territory of cracked pistons, broken rings, and bent rods. You do not want that.

Since I have never seen a petroleum-fueled TDI with low compression, I cannot say how hard it would be to get to 105 mph. I'll try if I ever do.

I had one customer with an ALH that was way down on compression.. 3 of the 4 cylinders were down around 300psi, the other was 250.. It was an absolute brute to get started when cold, but once it was running and up to temp it ran fine.. Had a normal amount of power for a stock ALH, and would do 100mph easily.. No idea what the root cause of the low compression was

 

[BioDiesel]

"Mad Max anybody???"
Does it sound like "ka-junk ka-junk ka-junk" ?
700 gallons is amazing. Thats a serious operation.

 

[BleachedBora]

We have about 2,000 gallons still stored in Portland in 300 gallon totes; never did get our business (NAB bio) operating. :-/

Although I don't recommend any TDI running on WVO, I can understand why people do it. As for putting a kit in a new MB, I can't say it any nicer, that's 'stoopid.'

-BB

 

[BioDiesel]

As for putting a kit in a new MB, I can't say it any nicer, that's 'stoopid.'

-BB

Always wit the negative waves Moriarty!

The M-B is doing well, did 165k w/o a sig problem.

Anyone interested can read more here:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
see post with:
PRELIMINARY APPROACH TOWARDS A CDI SYSTEM MODIFICATION OPERATING ON NEAT RAPESEED OIL

 

[jasonTDI]

How exactly did the bd clean the EGR/intake? Doesn't happen....Period. NO FUEL comes in contact with it. No-way, no-how.

I'll agree the elsebet is the best of the kits though. How do you make it through the cold? Cut wayyyyyydown on WVO?

 

[validius]

Hi T's,
I bought the car at 60k petro miles. EGR was sooted/gunked up about 3/8" deep then. I ran a few tankfulls of B100, which gave it a 'bd enema'. Got HUGE clouds of soot for about a week. Reinspection showed the EGR was clean with only a thin oily yellow film. There was still gunk downstream in the intake which I swabbed out as much as I could with a rag. But otherwise never cleaned until 162K. EGR never removed, IC never removed. While the cyl. head was off at 162K miles, the mechnics cleaned out the head and intake since they were off and were clogged with the original soot/gunk. Power came up and I think thats primarily why I went from 95-100 max up to 105 max.

Either you are a liar or the intake manifold gnomes have been cleaning your intake when you wernt looking. There is NO SUCH thing as a 'bd enima'. If there is any fuel contacting the soot in your manifold its because your combustion is so poor that liquid fuel is coming through the EGR.

Didnt you get your panties in a wad a few months ago and declare you were leaving these forums? Lets go back to when you didnt post your false garbage in this forum.

 

[BioDiesel]

BioDiesel enema

Perhaps the enema doubters can try reading posts I and Old Navy made Nov 2001 to March 2002 in the Fuels&Lubes forum. If they still exist. iirc it was titled: "Biodiesel cleaned my sooted intake", or something like that.
I have no doubt what cleaned out my EGR. Here's a hint:
Suppose 1% of B100 is unburned and 10% of the exhaust returns through the EGR.
Calculate how many ounces would pass into the EGR after 3 tankfulls of B100.

 

[validius]

i just did a quick search and couldn't find it. I'm gonna toss the burden of proof back onto you.

regardless of if it worked or not you never answered my statement about how piss poor combustion would have to be to get liquid bio into the intake.

 

[UFO]

Perhaps the enema doubters can try reading posts I and Old Navy made Nov 2001 to March 2002 in the Fuels&Lubes forum. If they still exist. iirc it was titled: "Biodiesel cleaned my sooted intake", or something like that.
I have no doubt what cleaned out my EGR. Here's a hint:
Suppose 1% of B100 is unburned and 10% of the exhaust returns through the EGR.
Calculate how many ounces would pass into the EGR after 3 tankfulls of B100.

1% biodiesel unburned AND getting into your intake????? Your numbers are either wildly optimistic or symptomatic of an engine in severe disrepair.

 

[validius]

Most unburned hydrocarbons leave the engine stuck to soot particles, not as actual liquid. Doing almost anything besides idling, when the car is running VERY rich on air the EGR will not be active. 10% is not accurate

You are making wild claims with no science behind them. Your misguidance is going to lead well meaning yet ignorant people to do foolish things.

 

[validius]

1% biodiesel unburned AND getting into your intake????? Your numbers are either wildly optimistic or symptomatic of an engine in severe disrepair.

And getting into your intake, and coming in contact with the walls of the intake and somehow dissolving the soot and making it super clean and... and... and...

No science, no logic just sillyness.

 

[oilhammer]

1% biodiesel unburned AND getting into your intake????? Your numbers are either wildly optimistic or symptomatic of an engine in severe disrepair.

Yeah, that sounds like every WVO car I have had in this shop in the last 2 years. Massive blow by, smooth idle comp numbers above +/-2.00, actual boost levels way off of requested and jumping up and down, injectors spraying like a old man with prostate troubles, catalysts full of gunk, fuzzy rusty chunks all over the fuel temp sensor...yep... great stuff.

 

[MicroRacer]

When I bought my 98 Jetta it had 95,000 miles on it with nothing but petro diesel ran through it. From the day I got the car until now (75,000 miles later) I have ran as high a concentration of biodiesel as the weather permitted. When I got my TDI it was dog slow. For approximately 6 months I tried different things to make it better. 6 months after running biodiesel I decided to take a look at my intake. It was gunked up so bad barely a quarter size hole was all that was left in the intake. Six months of running 100 (or as close to it as possible) biodiesel did nothing as far as I could see as an enema to the intake.

After cleaning the intake the TDI ran like it was supposed to. I did use biodiesel to clean the intake (and some large nuts) and that did work.

 

[BioDiesel]

"Six months of running 100 (or as close to it as possible) biodiesel did nothing "

It didn't work for everyone. Never figured it out then, and I am no longer interested.
But it was confirmed by 3 or 4 others. And many who didn't realize it was happening. Reports of: "I just switched to B100 and the car is smoking like crazy...." were typical.
Here's one:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=21768
Chck dieseldorf's and RC's comments. Both clearly had unburned B100 in the exhaust.
and "My first tank of B100 my 99.5 Jetta TDI smoked more than ever."


Whatever, I get a laugh out of it. You petro loosers PAY for the fuel and THEN, you have to clean out the intake too! What a kick in the _ss!


Remember , this is the same forum that told me I couldn't run WVO in a TDI.
"Your injectors will plug."
"Your ip will break."
Good thing I ignored all the 'advice'.

 

[oilhammer]

I have never cleaned any of my current cars' intakes...ever. One has over 400k miles.

 

[validius]

"Six months of running 100 (or as close to it as possible) biodiesel did nothing "

It didn't work for everyone. Never figured it out then, and I am no longer interested.
But it was confirmed by 3 or 4 others. And many who didn't realize it was happening. Reports of: "I just switched to B100 and the car is smoking like crazy...." were typical.
Here's one:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=21768
Chck dieseldorf's and RC's comments. Both clearly had unburned B100 in the exhaust.
and "My first tank of B100 my 99.5 Jetta TDI smoked more than ever."


Whatever, I get a laugh out of it. You petro loosers PAY for the fuel and THEN, you have to clean out the intake too! What a kick in the _ss!


Remember , this is the same forum that told me I couldn't run WVO in a TDI.
"Your injectors will plug."
"Your ip will break."
Good thing I ignored all the 'advice'.

You claim that excessive amounts of unburnt fuel are making their way back into your engine, 'cleaning' your intake manifold and your bragging about it? If you are correct, your car is catastrophically broken, if your wrong your a liar. Either way you have negative creditability. Your attitude and campaigns of misinformation are akin to those of a faith healer. Logic, science and those with experience be damned, you know your right and so do your soon to be late followers.