Worth sticking with TDI vs alltrack? MN winters

[Koloss]

So, I'll be upfront and say i have a problem keeping cars longterm. I'm 33 and have had 22 vehicles over the years. Having said that, i can't tell if what I'm feeling is my normal jump-ship attitude or just regular worry.

I have a 2015 GSW TDI 6MT S trim. I've done searches and there are no others for sale in the area. I paid $14.4 for it, CPO 2-year plus dieselgate warranties.

I love the mk7 platform. It's perfect for my lifestyle right now, specifically the wagons. I've like the TDIs torque, rarity, and fuel-efficiency. But man, its proving to be less than ideal in a northern winter. Remote Start? Nope. Heated seats? Nope. Warms up fast? Nope. Great traction? Mediocre. Etc. Basically, an Alltrack (or 4motion gsw) seems like the ticket. Most of what i love and features to dominate a MN winter.

Knowing the rarity of the specific model I have, what are your thoughts on posting for sale, seeing what bites, and going gas-awd after? I'd pay more upfront and monthly with gas costs but i don't think its be too huge of a difference.

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[ProfBrown]

So, I'll be upfront and say i have a problem keeping cars longterm. I'm 33 and have had 22 vehicles over the years. Having said that, i can't tell if what I'm feeling is my normal jump-ship attitude or just regular worry.

I have a 2015 GSW TDI 6MT S trim. I've done searches and there are no others for sale in the area. I paid $14.4 for it, CPO 2-year plus dieselgate warranties.

I love the mk7 platform. It's perfect for my lifestyle right now, specifically the wagons. I've like the TDIs torque, rarity, and fuel-efficiency. But man, its proving to be less than ideal in a northern winter. Remote Start? Nope. Heated seats? Nope. Warms up fast? Nope. Great traction? Mediocre. Etc. Basically, an Alltrack (or 4motion gsw) seems like the ticket. Most of what i love and features to dominate a MN winter.

Knowing the rarity of the specific model I have, what are your thoughts on posting for sale, seeing what bites, and going gas-awd after? I'd pay more upfront and monthly with gas costs but i don't think its be too huge of a difference.

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I mean if it doesn’t meet your needs, then you kinda have your mind set in that regard. I have the same issue jumping ship from cars to cars. I’m 22 and on car 8 technically. Most owned at the same time. I am actually thinking of ditching my gsw before the warranty ends to get a civic si sedan, newer generation. I am worried about owning a modern German car outside of warranty and my sunroof/moonroof is leaking a tad, and that is an omen I am thinking lol. Mileage is good, but no warm ups kinda suck, and I miss driving a stick shift. Civic meets those requirements and is a perfect car for high mileage driving and what not. If I can’t find what I want I’d get a civic hatchback with a stick and call it a win.


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[Koloss]

I mean if it doesn’t meet your needs, then you kinda have your mind set in that regard. I have the same issue jumping ship from cars to cars. I’m 22 and on car 8 technically. Most owned at the same time. I am actually thinking of ditching my gsw before the warranty ends to get a civic si sedan, newer generation. I am worried about owning a modern German car outside of warranty and my sunroof/moonroof is leaking a tad, and that is an omen I am thinking lol. Mileage is good, but no warm ups kinda suck, and I miss driving a stick shift. Civic meets those requirements and is a perfect car for high mileage driving and what not. If I can’t find what I want I’d get a civic hatchback with a stick and call it a win.


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Funny you mention that. The 1.5L turbo manual civic hatchback was a close contender for my next car prior to the GSW, but the allure of all-new-to-me with the VW (first diesel & first german), the utility of a wagon, and the price won me out. Honestly, the 1.5 Honda engines scare me with cold climates, too. I know they had bad fuel/oil dilution in the more extreme temps, which is exactly what I live in for a few months of the year. I believe they have since fixed it, but I haven't paid a ton of attention, to be honest.


Also, I've used your posts as reference to a lot of stuff I've done to my car. I just put ed's golf R replica headlights on a couple of days ago, and confirmed it looked good on a white '15 GSW from your pictures

 

[ProfBrown]

Funny you mention that. The 1.5L turbo manual civic hatchback was a close contender for my next car prior to the GSW, but the allure of all-new-to-me with the VW (first diesel & first german), the utility of a wagon, and the price won me out. Honestly, the 1.5 Honda engines scare me with cold climates, too. I know they had bad fuel/oil dilution in the more extreme temps, which is exactly what I live in for a few months of the year. I believe they have since fixed it, but I haven't paid a ton of attention, to be honest.


Also, I've used your posts as reference to a lot of stuff I've done to my car. I just put ed's golf R replica headlights on a couple of days ago, and confirmed it looked good on a white '15 GSW from your pictures

Lol glad to have helped. If you pressure wash your car I very strongly recommend that you put on some headlight protection film. My clear coat on mine started to come up. Was an easy clear coat install hair following their YouTube videos. I would have done it sooner but honestly forgot. Never again lol.

Yeah it won’t get as cold where I am at compared to you so that doesn’t bother me much. Where you live it would seem awd is more of a plus/necessity than amazing mileage. That being said high mpg is always a goal. The alltrack seems like a good choice since it has both. I can’t think of any other wagon or larger hatchbacks that are awd other than what Subaru offers, or Mercedes maybe but then you are in an entirely different class of car and price point. And the Subaru offers crap mpg on everything other than the crosstrek which I think won’t even get 35mpg.


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[jverheul]

I was kind of in the same boat. I would have liked awd, but went for the tdi. Get top end snow or 3p all seasons for the winter and you will be almost there. I figure if that is not enough for the snow I hit, I'll put in an LSD. Been driving fwd cars in the snow for decades. Its all about the tires, and the diff. I have set heaters. Can't remote start be retrofitted? My 2L tdi warms up a bit faster than my 06 2L gas A3. Go figure.

 

[ProfBrown]

I was kind of in the same boat. I would have liked awd, but went for the tdi. Get top end snow or 3p all seasons for the winter and you will be almost there. I figure if that is not enough for the snow I hit, I'll put in an LSD. Been driving fwd cars in the snow for decades. Its all about the tires, and the diff. I have set heaters. Can't remote start be retrofitted? My 2L tdi warms up a bit faster than my 06 2L gas A3. Go figure.

I know the civic si (10th gen) has a limited slip factory I deal with dirt and mud. The limited slip sounds nice for my situation.


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[turbobrick240]

I was kind of in the same boat. I would have liked awd, but went for the tdi. Get top end snow or 3p all seasons for the winter and you will be almost there. I figure if that is not enough for the snow I hit, I'll put in an LSD. Been driving fwd cars in the snow for decades. Its all about the tires, and the diff. I have set heaters. Can't remote start be retrofitted? My 2L tdi warms up a bit faster than my 06 2L gas A3. Go figure.

I think you nailed it. Good snow tires make a night and day difference. My Golf was absolutely awful in winter with the brand new Conti all season tires it came with. I put some general arctimax tires (no studs)on and it was transformed. Even with the sub optimal 225/45/r17 size.

 

[jverheul]

The other trick in the snow is narrow tires. I used to run circles around 4x4s with bad tires in the snow with my old Mk2 Jettas and 155/80R13 snows on 5" wide rims. Narrower tires bite better, and cause less induced yaw at speed when you are dealing with ridges of snow between lanes.

The automatics were more of a challenge with open diffs. The manuals were better, especially with the 80% LSD shim kit (Velocity? Peloquin?). I have not really pushed it with my GSW but so far it seems easier to spin my inside front wheel in my chipped Audi A3 2L fwd. I need to push it a bit more on some exit/entrance ramps and see if that is still true since I went to Malone Stage 2 yesterday.

I am planning on 215/55/17 for "snows" now. Michelin Cross Climates. In SoCal I have hours of dry pavement until I hit snow, so they are a compromise. My only beat up rims are 17x7.5" too. I think 16x6 and taller 205s would be better for snows. The trick for me is finding taller narrow snow tires that have stiff sidewalls (V or better speed rating). 205/55VR16 Dunlop WinterSport 3ds were OK on my A3. I don't think the newer 4ds are V rated though.

 

[Koloss]

I've actually got 205/65/16 as my winter tire setup with very new Michelin x-ice. I used that because its the stock wheel size and i have different wheels for summer. Maybe the wider-than-normal tires are making some of the difference in traction. On my other FWD's i always used steelies, usually at a 185 or 195. I just realized that most of past FWD cars also had an LSD, whereas we get the open diff in the GSW

So, for me, maybe I'm most comfortable using FWD only on skinny tires AND an LSD? I've not driven an AWD in almost 15 years, and back then it was a 1st gen DSM on all-seasons. I know i can make it through the vast majority of winter with my current setup but also know that AWD and/or LSD would be a big help

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[ProfBrown]

I've actually got 205/65/16 as my winter tire setup with very new Michelin x-ice. I used that because its the stock wheel size and i have different wheels for summer. Maybe the wider-than-normal tires are making some of the difference in traction. On my other FWD's i always used steelies, usually at a 185 or 195. I just realized that most of past FWD cars also had an LSD, whereas we get the open diff in the GSW

So, for me, maybe I'm most comfortable using FWD only on skinny tires AND an LSD? I've not driven an AWD in almost 15 years, and back then it was a 1st gen DSM on all-seasons. I know i can make it through the vast majority of winter with my current setup but also know that AWD and/or LSD would be a big help

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I wonder the cost on installing a limited slip in these cars. I have no doubt it would be rather pricey...


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[Mike in Anchorage]

Living in Alaska for several decades I've heard this truth: 4WD is for those who cannot drive well. Yeah, that will tick off a few people. Seriously, as you've noted it's all about the tires. As for heat - have you tried the common foam pipe insulation on the front grille? It's worked wonders for my warm up time and also improves fuel economy. Just today, using my Kerma TDI interface to see digital accurate coolant temp, the car would not get to full operating temp and the ambient air was right around freezing. Good luck but I think you have a good car. I have to admit, though, I will never own another car without heated seats.

 

[sapgar]

I’m in Colorado and have had good experience with my TDI with my snow tires. Now, the warm ups are slower than a gas car for sure, so getting the SE with heated seats was a must. I’ll probably go back to a GTI next year after my CPO warranty expires, but that’s for just the fun factor.


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[Z85rado]

i've lived in the northeast my entire life.. having had jeeps, pick ups, RWD, FWD. I can say snow tires are the difference maker. I ran BFG AT KO's & KO2's on my 4WD vehicles and the biggest problem was their width vs relatively low curb weight. I have Conit DWS06's on my SS which is 275 in the rear and they do very well in snow at lower speeds. I run stock size snows on my TDI S and it is near unstoppable. The only thing AWD would be useful for is if you regularly travel and stop on steep hills, getting moving even with snows on a FWD car is difficult. I learned that in Pitt in my mini with snows. You learn real quick what hill not to take and if you must start downshifting and coasting to carry momentum when the light changes.

 

[oilhammer]

I have to add in on the importance of snow tires here, too. Makes a HUGE difference.

I have [currently] two B5 Passats, one is FWD, one is AWD. Both are automatics with ESP. The difference in snow driving is improved more by snow tires than adding the rear drive axle. Except for perhaps some very steep inclines, I think the FWD car with snows would do BETTER than the AWD with regular summer tires.

There is also the issue of ground clearance, which has diminished so much on most modern cars that the idea of a car-based SUV, or "Crossover" as they are often called (Tiguan, RAV4, etc.) becomes more appealing. But i n many cases, especially with FWD VAG products, there are options to allow you to increase the ground clearance by an inch or two. Ironically this often involves using pieces from other vehicles like the Tiguan or Alltrack, but it can be done. This along with a good set of dedicated snow wheels/tires will truly transform your FWD Golf 7 in winter conditions.

 

[740GLE]

I'd say it depends on how many miles you drive a year, Alltrack flat out sucks in MPG, despite all the borgwarner tech and publications, the gen5 Haldex sends a significant amount of power to the rear, especially noticeable in stop and go driving.

Speeds anywhere above 65MPH you'll be lucky to get 29-30MPG, 27 is more typical espeically if you toss in some headwind. Compare that to any other AWD CUV and it's quite pathetic (sure it doesn't have a CVT).

I do think the Alltrack with 6MT would get you a little better MPG but its still pretty bad if you're used to 40-45 MPG.

2019 Alltrack SEL can be had in 6MT but hard to find. Only saving grace of the AT is the power adders, going from 170hp to 300hp doesn't take very much (plan for a new clutch if 6MT), used GTI/R turbo and a tune, maybe even an aftermarket DP. Utilizing Golf R upgrade parts is pretty sweet.

Newer car tech of carplay and safty features are pretty nice too, but for me if we didn't already have a TDI and stupid driveway, I'll live with a GSW TDI (especially 6MT)

 

[oilhammer]

For a daily, for sure AWD sucks for fuel consumption, I will second that. While my 4Mo B5 is a 1.8t, so it isn't really a fair comparison to my FWD one that is a TDI, I have owned FWD+automatic 1.8t B5s, and there is a solid, repeatable, consistent 6 MPG hit. So in this case, it goes from bad to worse, LOL.

Fortunately I do not drive it often. No way I could ever NOT drive something that gets worse than maybe 45 MPG every day ever again. And fortunately, I have not had to do that much in my life, but of course going forward that pretty much means no more 'new' cars for me.
'

 

[whizznbyu]

Lol glad to have helped. If you pressure wash your car I very strongly recommend that you put on some headlight protection film.

What brand film did you use?

 

[ProfBrown]

What brand film did you use?

I used this link below. Just entered my car info. Think I got the higher end one since jr was only a couple bucks more. You’ll need two spray bottles, some rubbing alcohol, Dawn dish soap and a microfiber cloth. They provide a squeegee, but I wanted a bigger one so I used one we had laying around the house. Instal was quick and simple since the mk7 lights are so smoothly shaped. I will likely be getting these on all future cars just to protect from oxidation and putting/scuffs from road use. Cheap insurance policy to last at the very least 2 years. Headlights alone are a few hundred for a decent set so it offsets the cost a fair bit.


https://www.invisiblemask.com/imask/


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[phantom1260]

So, I'll be upfront and say i have a problem keeping cars longterm. I'm 33 and have had 22 vehicles over the years.

I have the same issue jumping ship from cars to cars. I’m 22 and on car 8 technically.

Is this normal behavior? I'm 30 and I'm still driving my first car, 2006 Lexus IS250 AWD with 188K. The TDI is my wife's car with 248K.

 

[ProfBrown]

Is this normal behavior? I'm 30 and I'm still driving my first car.

Far from normal is our behavior my friend lol. Many would say it’s flat out financially irresponsible... but to each their own lol


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[Koloss]

i've lived in the northeast my entire life.. having had jeeps, pick ups, RWD, FWD. I can say snow tires are the difference maker. I ran BFG AT KO's & KO2's on my 4WD vehicles and the biggest problem was their width vs relatively low curb weight. I have Conit DWS06's on my SS which is 275 in the rear and they do very well in snow at lower speeds. I run stock size snows on my TDI S and it is near unstoppable. The only thing AWD would be useful for is if you regularly travel and stop on steep hills, getting moving even with snows on a FWD car is difficult. I learned that in Pitt in my mini with snows. You learn real quick what hill not to take and if you must start downshifting and coasting to carry momentum when the light changes.

I definitely notice the slip when on a slight incline when starting. I've also had all sorts of drive-train combinations; FWD open diff, FWD LSD, AWD, RWD and 4x4. The best winter car I've personally had is a tie between two cars with the FWD w/ LSD config (other than my last truck, but I'm purposely trying to leave trucks out of my options). I think that while the LSD would be nice to have, I can make the open diff on the GSW TDI work fine if I avoid some of the hills I normally drive on my commute during the bad days.

 

[Koloss]

Far from normal is our behavior my friend lol. Many would say it’s flat out financially irresponsible... but to each their own lol


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Agreed. People are shocked when I tell them how many cars I've owned. The only other people I've seen come close are usually other diehard gear-heads who can't stick to one platform =D


I got "smart" with my money in my mid 20s. However, I'm definitely still irresponsible with money in the "let's switch cars all the time!" mentality. If I was more resolute to keeping money in my pocket I'd for sure just stick with the TDI and rough through anything.

 

[Funguy]

One more vote here for snow tires. When I had jobs that required going to work in all weather I always had snows. I learned to watch the rear-view mirror for the turkeys tailgating me in foul weather. Several times I have had to ease off the brake for those drivers unable to stop behind me when I was just normal braking. One lady in a jeep was on my bumper and when the light changed she ended up spinning into a ditch because she couldn't stop behind me and I was forced to run light to avoid her hitting me.

At 60 I have owned (just for me not the wife) about 5 cars iirc. At 89 my dad has owned about 8 I think.

 

[alext91]

I mean if it doesn’t meet your needs, then you kinda have your mind set in that regard. I have the same issue jumping ship from cars to cars. I’m 22 and on car 8 technically. Most owned at the same time. I am actually thinking of ditching my gsw before the warranty ends to get a civic si sedan, newer generation. I am worried about owning a modern German car outside of warranty and my sunroof/moonroof is leaking a tad, and that is an omen I am thinking lol. Mileage is good, but no warm ups kinda suck, and I miss driving a stick shift. Civic meets those requirements and is a perfect car for high mileage driving and what not. If I can’t find what I want I’d get a civic hatchback with a stick and call it a win.

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I was in a similar boat. I had a 9th gen Civic Si which I really did like, but it actually got quite boring in daily driving. It was a good track car and the LSD was nice. It did quite well in the snow with the 205/55r16 Altimax Arctic 12 tires, but I ultimately decided to go in the direction of a wagon (and back to my VW TDI roots). I looked at and drove a couple of alltracks, but they just didn't do it for me. They felt really slow for what they should be, and I just wasn't impressed. Anyway, I ended up with a 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 6MT and I'm so glad I made that decision. My JSW seems to warm up quite quickly in the cold weather, much faster than my wife's MK7. It has done well so far with a set of Altimax Arctic 12s, even though they are the widest I've ever run (225/45r17). I would say snow tires make the biggest difference.

 

[ProfBrown]

I was in a similar boat. I had a 9th gen Civic Si which I really did like, but it actually got quite boring in daily driving. It was a good track car and the LSD was nice. It did quite well in the snow with the 205/55r16 Altimax Arctic 12 tires, but I ultimately decided to go in the direction of a wagon (and back to my VW TDI roots). I looked at and drove a couple of alltracks, but they just didn't do it for me. They felt really slow for what they should be, and I just wasn't impressed. Anyway, I ended up with a 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 6MT and I'm so glad I made that decision. My JSW seems to warm up quite quickly in the cold weather, much faster than my wife's MK7. It has done well so far with a set of Altimax Arctic 12s, even though they are the widest I've ever run (225/45r17). I would say snow tires make the biggest difference.

Lol looks like we are on the flip side of each others decisions. The wagon is by far the slowest things I’ve ever owned. Least that’s how it feels. I had an e36 328i manual, a 94 525i auto, a 1500 lifted on 33s then later 35s and a few Baja bugs/dune buggies with standard vw flat 4 engines. This tdi just feels like it’s out of legs at anything over 45. Now I know a tune would fix this, but the civic si of 10th gen makes a good deal more power and still has some less in the tank, while also being manual. And I would wager the car as a whole is more reliable compared to the wagon.


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[alext91]

Lol looks like we are on the flip side of each others decisions. The wagon is by far the slowest things I’ve ever owned. Least that’s how it feels. I had an e36 328i manual, a 94 525i auto, a 1500 lifted on 33s then later 35s and a few Baja bugs/dune buggies with standard vw flat 4 engines. This tdi just feels like it’s out of legs at anything over 45. Now I know a tune would fix this, but the civic si of 10th gen makes a good deal more power and still has some less in the tank, while also being manual. And I would wager the car as a whole is more reliable compared to the wagon.


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Yeah haha. I will say that I have driven a 10th gen, and it is leaps and bounds ahead of the 9th gen in almost every way. I really liked the NA engine in the 9th gen, but the chassis and suspension just weren't up to the task when it came to aggressive driving. Despite the civic being a much quicker car, I actually find my JSW (granted it has some suspension upgrades) a much more enjoyable car to drive. But I can't argue that a 10th gen Si is a great car. If they had offered the 10th gen with the K24 motor I would have been inclined to look at them more seriously.

 

[ProfBrown]

Yeah haha. I will say that I have driven a 10th gen, and it is leaps and bounds ahead of the 9th gen in almost every way. I really liked the NA engine in the 9th gen, but the chassis and suspension just weren't up to the task when it came to aggressive driving. Despite the civic being a much quicker car, I actually find my JSW (granted it has some suspension upgrades) a much more enjoyable car to drive. But I can't argue that a 10th gen Si is a great car. If they had offered the 10th gen with the K24 motor I would have been inclined to look at them more seriously.

Yeah it seems going to a 1.5turbo on the 10th gen is where the si purists hate the new si. They miss singing 7-8k rpm na, but the new 1.5 motor is nice, my moms exl trim 10th gen Honda has it and it’s better than the 2.0 for sure in my eyes makes more power, the same if not better mpg and is smooth


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[alext91]

Yeah it seems going to a 1.5turbo on the 10th gen is where the si purists hate the new si. They miss singing 7-8k rpm na, but the new 1.5 motor is nice, my moms exl trim 10th gen Honda has it and it’s better than the 2.0 for sure in my eyes makes more power, the same if not better mpg and is smooth


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Definitely better than the 2.0, that's for sure. I'm not necessarily a purist in that sense, but I just felt like it was tuned to seem more eager than it was, which is hard to explain. When you first get into the throttle, it seems really eager to go and makes decent power, but it doesn't really leave much in reserve for when you really lean into the pedal, if that makes any sense. Overall a great car though, much better chassis and the adaptive dampers are great. The interiors and seating position on the 10th is also way better.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Dito on winter tires, make a world of difference. As for adding LSD, IIRC the Golf 7 already does that electronically.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

Toyota RAV4 Hybrid gets 40 MPG and has all wheel drive.

I'm thinking about getting one, but my Mk4 Golf won't die (well, not dead enough that I can't fix it).