Winter tires & Manual transmission: Driving tips?

[nokivasara]

What is your recommendation for starting from a stand still?

When I was in Sweden I noticed that few drivers had AWD. What do most Swedes do for winter driving? I assume winter tires, but do they also invest in tire chains?

Like others have stated earlier, light right foot combined with clutch slip until you get moving.
When you let the clutch out just stop right when the car starts moving, keep it there for a second or two longer than normal and off you go!
Low revs are important, you don't want more power than it takes to get moving.
I usually start with no throttle at all.
In a intersection when there's almost no grip at all you can let the tires spin slowly and turn the wheels from side to side to seek traction.

When you park your car on loose snow you can drive back and forth a few times, just a bit, 30-50cm (1-2ft) to compress the snow under your wheels.
This help in two ways:
1. Whenever you park your warm tires melt the snow underneath and the tires sinks down in the snow and you're likely to get stuck before the car moves at all. When you pack the snow it won't melt as much if at all.
2. The 30-50cm of packed snow acts like a launch ramp when you start, just get in and start as usual, you won't get stuck.

What do swedes do for winter driving?
Snow/winter tires are mandatory from december to april, all season tires are not legal during winter. This helps of course. I have never seen anyone with chains.
We have to practise on a slippery test track (and pass) before we get our driving license.
Other than that I don't think we do anything special, we are taught to take it easy when driving in snow

Remember that aggressive driving and winter does not match very well, no matter if you want to accelerate, brake or change direction (cornering, changing lanes and such) always do it with causion. Always.
A TDI has a powerful engine brake, use that whenever slowing down.

I'm sure some people doesn't agree with me and that's OK but I have never been off the road or needed someone to pull me out when I was stuck. I have always managed to get going without help. I have had to use the shovel I bring with me more than a few times though!

 

[snakeye]

2. The 30-50cm of packed snow acts like a launch ramp when you start, just get in and start as usual, you won't get stuck.

Never thought of this before; I'll have to try it. Good advice!

Winter tires are mandatory here in Quebec Canada as well since a few years. I don't know how anyone got around on all season tires before that. Seems kind of foolish and irresponsible, yet so many people did it.

 

[Chris B]

What do swedes do for winter driving?
Snow/winter tires are mandatory from december to april, all season tires are not legal during winter. This helps of course. I have never seen anyone with chains.
We have to practise on a slippery test track (and pass) before we get our driving license.
Other than that I don't think we do anything special, we are taught to take it easy when driving in snow

We should have the same rule in the U.S. for areas that experience "X" amount of average yearly snowfall. And for getting a license here, I think you only need a pulse and be able to eat a Big Mac, text someone, hold a Slushie between your legs, and put on eyeliner at the same time while driving to pass.

But, rather than mandate proper "winter apparel" for our cars, our government would rather mandate yet more electronic stability nannies for our "protection" that must be built into new cars by the automakers. Force the solution on "big business" instead of the poor, persecuted taxpayer who will remember it at election time.

I would rather have mandatory snow tire use, eliminate salt entirely, and use sand only for ice. Just plow down to a packed snow base and have at it. The elimination of body rot from not having salted roads would more than pay for a set of snow tires and steel wheels for most applications. Resale value will be a lot higher on a used, but rust free car. At least VWs seem to fend off the rust pretty well.

 

[That Guy]

Good tip. I grew up in Alaska, and learned to drive on a frozen lake, with nothing to hit! I think the worst way to learn to drive on slick roads is to try to remain in control all the time. Get some place where there is nothing to hit, like a parking lot of an abandoned supermarket, and practice turning, stopping, and taking off on a really slick surface.

An analog of this situation is the learning curve of riding motorcycles on the street. If you've grown up riding dirt bikes, things like the back end washing out, 'highsiding', and other ways of being out of control are fairly regular. You learn where the limit of control is, and how to find it without wadding your bike (TDI).

X3... I learned my winter driving skills in a Willies jeep in a snow covered field. That thing would spin with very little encouragement.

At first I did a 360 by accident. Then I was doing them on purpose. After a short while I found that it was getting hard to do as I was automatically correcting.

Best training ever...saved my bacon more than a few times since then too.

Worst cases...

Same jeep...going down a dirt road in winter. Front tires caught the center snow and jerked the jeep around so I was sliding sideways down the road at about 45 mph. Zero traction. I had the wheel turned in the direction of travel and after a lengthy couple of seconds the vehicle jerked back on track.

Driving down the highway in a 1979 3/4 ton GMC Sierra. Going about 60 MPH around a very slight curve when the back end started sliding around. The road was totally clear...was black ice. I just eased off the gas a bit and kept the wheel pointed the way I was traveling...the back caught grip and came back around. No problemo.


I see people hitting the brakes all the time in bad weather (like this morning)...and sliding all over the place because of it. (polishing the ice for the rest of us too) It's always fun to have to slow down because this is going on in front of you...which causes the people behind you to slow as well and if one of them is like the guy in front you could be in trouble.
Or when you are in front of one of these people....wondering if they will slide into you at some point.

fun fun fun

 

[White Crow]

Don't do any thing fast, no hard breaking no jerky turns and don't accelerate quickly and you'll be fine keep all the wheels turning the same speed.

 

[BrentRN]

Like others have stated earlier, light right foot combined with clutch slip until you get moving.
When you let the clutch out just stop right when the car starts moving, keep it there for a second or two longer than normal and off you go!
Low revs are important, you don't want more power than it takes to get moving.
I usually start with no throttle at all.

Thanks for the great advice. It snowed the other night so I went out and tried it. No throttle and off I went!

Winter driving is fun, it's the other drivers that make me worried.

 

[That Guy]

Winter driving is fun, it's the other drivers that make me worried.

I second that.

 

[Conan]

The only wreck I've had due to slick roads was on I-25, just north of Casper, WY. There had been a warm snowstorm early in the morning, with traffic packing about 3" of snow onto the highway. It was warm enough that there was liquid water on top of the hard-packed snow. I've been on a lot of slick surfaces, but I think that was the worst. Way worse than black ice. The %$#@&^! Wyoming Department of Transportation decided they didn't need to plow, I guess. I only saw two plows in WY, and they were both going the other way with their blades up. It was so freakin' slick that you literally couldn't walk on the interstate. In retrospect, I should have stopped in Casper and got some chains, but I didn't. I was driving an FJ60 Land Cruiser that I was trying to sell, and didn't want to spring for chains I couldn't use. I just drove about 35MPH, white knuckled. The road was straight and pretty flat, so I thought I was okay. I was hoping the stuff would melt off, but no. At one point, it got so slick that just the crown of the road put me in the ditch. Rolled 1.5 times. Totalled. I wrote a scathing letter to the director of the WDOT. No response. I just moved from MT to CO, so I have to take that road a lot. My experience: DO NOT drive through WY in the winter unless you have to. Then take chains. Worst road maintenance in the known universe.

 

[nokivasara]

The only wreck I've had due to slick roads was on I-25, just north of Casper, WY. There had been a warm snowstorm early in the morning, with traffic packing about 3" of snow onto the highway. It was warm enough that there was liquid water on top of the hard-packed snow. I've been on a lot of slick surfaces, but I think that was the worst. Way worse than black ice. The %$#@&^! Wyoming Department of Transportation decided they didn't need to plow, I guess. I only saw two plows in WY, and they were both going the other way with their blades up. It was so freakin' slick that you literally couldn't walk on the interstate. In retrospect, I should have stopped in Casper and got some chains, but I didn't. I was driving an FJ60 Land Cruiser that I was trying to sell, and didn't want to spring for chains I couldn't use. I just drove about 35MPH, white knuckled. The road was straight and pretty flat, so I thought I was okay. I was hoping the stuff would melt off, but no. At one point, it got so slick that just the crown of the road put me in the ditch. Rolled 1.5 times. Totalled. I wrote a scathing letter to the director of the WDOT. No response. I just moved from MT to CO, so I have to take that road a lot. My experience: DO NOT drive through WY in the winter unless you have to. Then take chains. Worst road maintenance in the known universe.

A few days ago it started to rain (very rare in the winter) when I was heading home in my Isuzu, I agree with you, water on packed snow is just horrific to drive on.
I have manual free wheeling hubs and they were unlocked so I was in 2wd with no load on the bed, going about 55km/h in 4th gear when I gently released the throttle coming to an intersection and of course the rear just kicked out.
I managed to keep it on the road though and stopped to lock the hubs...

 

[nokivasara]

When you park your car on loose snow you can drive back and forth a few times, just a bit, 30-50cm (1-2ft) to compress the snow under your wheels.
This help in two ways:
1. Whenever you park your warm tires melt the snow underneath and the tires sinks down in the snow and you're likely to get stuck before the car moves at all. When you pack the snow it won't melt as much if at all.
2. The 30-50cm of packed snow acts like a launch ramp when you start, just get in and start as usual, you won't get stuck.

I had to dig deep to find this old thread!
One day when I parked my car in the woods (I'm a logger) and did this little trick as usual I sort of recalled that I had mentioned it here and decided to take some pictures to show what I mean. We don't have much snow yet but you get the idea. This is very useful in a 2wd car, since the non driving wheels comes along much easier than if they are buried in deep snow.

In the first picture my plan is to reverse out of there, I have a bit of "launch ramp" cleared in front of the tyres so I can drive forward in case I can't reverse.

This is a more normal parking for me, I'm going to drive forward and have the launch ramp ready. Just get in and drive.

 

[RabbitGTI]

1) start the car
2) turn off the traction control

 

[turbobrick240]

I like to run slightly less air pressure in my snow tires. ~30 psi vs. the ~37 psi on summers/all seasons. If I'm driving any significant distance in good weather on the snows, I'll air them up to 35 psi- then let some out when the weather turns nasty.

 

[TDItrucker2]

My previous VWs were an AWD Passat with A/S tires and a FWD Passat with winter tires; both had automatic transmissions and drove well in the snow and ice. I am now driving a 2006 Jetta TDI with 5-speed manual and Michelin X-Ice winter tires. It has snowed for the first time today and the car seems to be slipping more from a start than I remember with the automatics. Once I am going it feels pretty secure but I am new to manually shifting.

Do you all have any advice on how to handle winter conditions with front wheel drive, winter tires, and a manual transmission? I am particularly interested in advice on starting, stopping, and handling curves. Thanks.

I've been a trucker for over 38 years, and so I've seen about everything out there on the road!! The advice that I offered my sons is to just leave earlier for work during the winter. Don't be passing everybody. Don't tailgate. If you've got a manual transmission and you've got wheel spin on takeoff, you need new tires. No matter what you drive, use your head and your eyes; your feet will get the message. Pay attention to what's ahead of you. Stay off your darn phone. In closing, my car has never been in the ditch, and it's not an AWD.