Winter Biodiesel

thedagem

Member
Joined
May 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2014 VW Jetta
I drive a 2014 Jetta TDI and I run B100 in my car year round. It's getting to be winter, and last year I switched to running regular diesel gas during the colder months. I'd rather run my bio fuel year round, for emissions reasons (it's why I modified the vehicle)

It's my understanding that I could blend it with Kerosene to lower the gel point of the fuel. I've heard that this is frowned upon in newer vehicles. What's the scoop here? The tank is 14.5 gallons, if I throw 3 gal of Kerosene in there with my B100, from what I've read I'll be ok down to 12 degrees F or so. I'd rather run this fuel blend as it's cleaner burning than what I would get at the pump. Anything I should know?
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Do some more reading here.

Basic: your 2014 shouldn't be fed bio greater than 20%. VAG states this as a requirement, not a suggestion.

By moving to Bio < 20%, buying commercial petr/bio, you shouldn't have gelling problems.
 

thedagem

Member
Joined
May 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2014 VW Jetta
I'm well aware that my car straight from the factory can not run biodiesel in excess of 20%. I've modified the vehicle to allow me to run straight B100. I have no DPF or EGR to clog. Say what you will about modifying the vehicles emissions equipment, but it is my understanding that by removing the emissions equipment and running B100, my emissions are far less than those with stock vehicles running regular diesel fuel, with the exception of Nox.

My concern here isn't with clogging filters, or voiding the warranty. I'd simply like to continue running the cleanest burning fuel possible through the winter months. I made modifications to allow me to run biodiesel, my question is simply can I use Kerosene to lower the gel point and continue to run cleaner fuel during the winter months, or would the addition of kerosene to B100 cause some sort of hidden problems I am unaware of. It would be a shame to run pump diesel for 3 months knowing that my emissions equipment has been deleted.
 

1854sailor

Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Location
Westerly, RI
TDI
2015 Golf SE SportWagen, 2015 Golf SE Hatch Back.
Just blend to B50 or B60 with D2 and you won't have a gelling problem.
 

zaphod99

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Location
Pickering, Ontario
TDI
2013 Passat 6MT, '86 Golf D, '78 Rabbit D
I'm well aware that my car straight from the factory can not run biodiesel in excess of 20%. I've modified the vehicle to allow me to run straight B100. I have no DPF or EGR to clog.
What about the injectors? My understanding is that B100 and CR injectors don't get along well in the long term. I believe that there are some post(s) here by Drivbiwire that speak to this.
 
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thedagem

Member
Joined
May 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2014 VW Jetta
What about the injectors? My understanding is that B100 and CR injectors don't get along well in the long term. I believe that there are some post(s) here by Drivbiwire that speak to this.
If this is indeed true, I'd be very interested in reading what the posts say. Do you have a link you can provide? The car seems to run fine. The stock injectors were upgraded when I had the DPF EGR delete and the malone tune. So hopefully this addressed that problem.
 

zaphod99

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Location
Pickering, Ontario
TDI
2013 Passat 6MT, '86 Golf D, '78 Rabbit D
If this is indeed true, I'd be very interested in reading what the posts say. Do you have a link you can provide? The car seems to run fine. The stock injectors were upgraded when I had the DPF EGR delete and the malone tune. So hopefully this addressed that problem.
There may be others, but these two threads have posts by Drivbiwire suggesting that biodiesel breaks down under the high heat/pressure of the CR injection system and causes problems:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457634
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457713
 

thedagem

Member
Joined
May 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2014 VW Jetta
Very interesting indeed. I just spoke with a gentleman at GermanDieselMotorwerks the other day who said that as long as the bio was filtered well I should have no problems. Just mix in some kerosene in the winter and I'm good to go. Has anyone else got any input on this matter?
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I don't believe your car now is cleaner than it was stock from the factory. Do you have any tests or real evidence to back this up? I am all for bio but I think you are wrong about this aspect.
 

thedagem

Member
Joined
May 25, 2016
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2014 VW Jetta
I don't believe your car now is cleaner than it was stock from the factory. Do you have any tests or real evidence to back this up? I am all for bio but I think you are wrong about this aspect.

I do not have any tests, and do not know where I could get such a thing done, but I'd love to see the numbers as I did the modifications strictly for environmental reasons. It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) That biodiesel is completely biodegradable and has less particulate matter. I gained a 10% increase in fuel economy by removing the EGR and DPF, and I only see a marginal decrease in fuel economy for running B100 vs pump diesel in the modified vehicle. Numbers for bio emissions vs diesel are astounding with the exception of Nox. I believe Nox is a 10% increase, but everything else is 50% less or more. I was assured by many people that this would lessen my emissions drastically, I'd be pretty upset if this were incorrect.
 
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BioDiesel'

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Location
CT
TDI
1998 Jetta Elsbett single-tank, 230K WVO miles
Do you have a refrigerator?

Spare yourself the nonsense replies and just test your blend yourself.
Then you'll know for sure if it will gell at 5*F.

FWIW, I ran B100 + 20% kerosene in my older TDI w/o gelling in similarly cold CT.
 

BioDiesel'

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Location
CT
TDI
1998 Jetta Elsbett single-tank, 230K WVO miles
Cummins test

Re: "I don't believe your car now is cleaner than it was stock from the factory. Do you have any tests or real evidence to back this up? I am all for bio but I think you are wrong about this aspect."

Somewhere I read Cummins did an emissions comparison test of their engine.
A ULSD + DPF equipped vs. B100 , no DPF.
Emissions were comparable.
 

BioDiesel'

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Location
CT
TDI
1998 Jetta Elsbett single-tank, 230K WVO miles
"Comparable" isn't "cleaner", but it isn't worse either. I will accept that they are comparable.
Oh yeah?:rolleyes:

If the B100 is sourced from WVO, it has very little CO2 contribution and definately comes out cleaner than a fossil fuel.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Re: "I don't believe your car now is cleaner than it was stock from the factory. Do you have any tests or real evidence to back this up? I am all for bio but I think you are wrong about this aspect."
Somewhere I read Cummins did an emissions comparison test of their engine.
A ULSD + DPF equipped vs. B100 , no DPF.
Emissions were comparable
.
Could you provide us with a link?
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I found that kero as an additive to biodiesel was no more effective than using pump ULSD at lowering gel temperature. As ULSD is more readily available, and at lower per gallon cost, than kero, that's all I use.

PGH bio? Baum Blvd.? I am surprised to hear they have it year-round.
Or do you squirrel away gallons and gallons for use through the winter as I do?
 
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