Why You Should Not Buy A Dsg Transmission

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
This subject seems to come up frequently with a staunch group of supporters and detractors on both sides. In the interest of "fairness" I think most of these issues center on the comparative advantages/cost of DSG ownership versus the available Manual Transmissions offered by VW. I understand that most people don't know how to drive a manual transmission.

You can call it whatever you want (DSG, Tripotonic etc.) getting a new or newer car should not be an exercise in settling for something that you would regret over the ownership life of the vehicle. So an automatic transmission on an otherwise pristine vehicle is a deal breaker for some like myself, but thats just me and my opinion. Now if my wife or her girlfriends were buying the car for their use, they would opt for an automatic transmission (i.e. DSG). The consensus from them would be that a proper ladies car has an automatic transmission. I don't know if that is the general consensus of women or if you share the same opinion.

That said, the point of this thread is to avoid the typical hyperbole and too have a rational discussion on the topic. Here are some points that I think need to be addressed:

1. Most people prefer a manual transmission over a DSG. I had a thread poll on this forum on this subject that had several dozen respondents representing a significant majority that agreed that they would not buy a car with a DSG. A certain member rightly criticized the sample size of the Poll as being less than 50 respondents. That said, here is a vortex Poll with a sampling of 2500 persons: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2463257 The responding individuals had a sample return rate similar to my offered poll. Would a fair reading of these results indicate that buying a VW with a DSG cost you on resale? Seems like a fair conclusion. What do you think?

2. The initial selection cost of the DSG should be a deal breaker. Look, VW's homepage list the DSG as an "upgrade" option to a standard transmission. I think this is a oxymoron as the DSG is arguably detracting value from a VW and is an inferior transmission. The "upgrade price" is $1,100 for the DSG. http://www.vw.com/vwfeatures/jetta/en/us/ . I hope the link is valid. It is from VW's homepage. Why are people paying $1,100 to select an arguably inferior transmission?

3. Service cost of the DSG is ridiculous. Service cost for the DSG (every 40(k) miles seems to be between $300-$500 depending on the place of service. Assuming that the person is buying the tdi for it's intended use (i.e. 200(k) miles or more) that adds up to $1500-$2000 compared to a few hundred dollars for typical service on a manual tranny. It is unclear what the life expectancy for a DSG will be therefore it would be unfair to compare it to the known quantity of a manual tranny. Obviously, if the DSG fails the replacement cost would be extreme. Are buyer's being advised of this extra cost?

4. DSG failures. Their out there and there seems to be a lot of confusion over what is and is not covered under the VW warranty. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=235168 . Are people considering these "failures" in their purchasing decision?
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
I commute every day, and am tired of rowing in stop and go traffic. That's why I prefer an automatic in my daily driver. It's a shame that a VW TDI does not have a reliable or cost-effective option for me.
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
thebigarniedog said:
You can call it whatever you want (DSG, Tripotonic etc.) getting a new or newer car should not be an exercise in settling for something that you would regret over the ownership life of the vehicle. So an automatic transmission on an otherwise pristine vehicle is a deal breaker for some like myself, but thats just me and my opinion. Now if my wife or her girlfriends were buying the car for their use, they would opt for an automatic transmission (i.e. DSG). The consensus from them would be that a proper ladies car has an automatic transmission. I don't know if that is the general consensus of women or if you share the same opinion.

That said, the point of this thread is to avoid the typical hyperbole and too have a rational discussion on the topic.
How can you initiate an open and rational discussion by implying that the DSG is a woman's transmission :rolleyes:
 
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dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Arnie, you crack me up

thebigarniedog said:
The consensus from them would be that a proper ladies car has an automatic transmission.
This is good


The only VW I'd ever consider with an automatic transmission would be one of the full size cars.
 
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TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
greengeeker said:
How can you initiate an open and rational discussion by implying that the DSG is a woman's transmission :rolleyes:
In his defense, he was simply giving the collective consensus of a group of women.
 

dieselyeti

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Fairfield CT
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE (DSG)
UFO said:
I commute every day, and am tired of rowing in stop and go traffic. That's why I prefer an automatic in my daily driver. It's a shame that a VW TDI does not have a reliable or cost-effective option for me.
Are you suggesting the DSG isn't reliable?
 

Variant TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Location
SS, MD.
TDI
2002 Golf Variant, Reflex Silver
I'm 3 miles outside the DC beltway.

I have never owned an automatic transmission, and I will try to maintain that streak if there's a row-yer-own option available.

I'll give a pass to those with injuries, but using traffic as a justification is a cop-out.
 

vwmk4

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Location
ROCKPILE IL. USA
TDI
None at this time, Looking for a nice one though.
Looks like VW is doing away with all torque converter transmissions, so it is either the manual or DSG. Due to my physical limitations it must be a DSG for my next TDI, and it will be a MK6 Golf 2.0 CRD TDI.
 
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UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
dieselyeti said:
Are you suggesting the DSG isn't reliable?
I didn't make that suggestion. You quoted me saying "or". The OP is suggesting it's EXPENSIVE to maintain.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
Variant TDI said:
I'm 3 miles outside the DC beltway.

I have never owned an automatic transmission, and I will try to maintain that streak if there's a row-yer-own option available.

I'll give a pass to those with injuries, but using traffic as a justification is a cop-out.
Wow, judgment from on-high.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
My wife rows the gearbox with her standard equipment 2 arms and 2 legs just fine, so does my mom, my stepmom, 2 of my 3 sisters, and several female cousins, as well as countless non-penis-equipped customers. I think the presence of mommy parts has no bearing whatsoever on ones ability to operate a manual transmission.

As for the DSG, novel idea, but its execution is a little ragged (but getting better). The DMF failures anger me though. :mad:
 

brianstrange

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Location
Tyngsboro, MA
TDI
2006.5 Jetta DSG Auto Pkg 1
Fact: The Ford Mustang was designed for women
Fact the DSG technology came from F1 Racing

Also, I bet that if you poll the TDI population, most will prefer a Manual gearbox due to it's simplicity. BUT, it you poll he general population, they will prefer an automatic.

I prefer the DSG because it offers both.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
brianstrange said:
Fact: The Ford Mustang was designed for women
Fact the DSG technology came from F1 Racing

Also, I bet that if you poll the TDI population, most will prefer a Manual gearbox due to it's simplicity. BUT, it you poll he general population, they will prefer an automatic.

I prefer the DSG because it offers both.
DSG? Simple? Hahahahahah!!! That's rich! Take one apart and tell me it's simple. A conventional torque-convertor planetary gearset slushbox is WAY simpler inside. There is a reason why a replacement 02E is over 2 grand MORE than even a replacement 01M!
 
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SoTxBill

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 14, 2000
Location
its not the base, its the additives!!
TDI
13 passatdsg 10 jetdsg, 09 jetdsg, 2006 jetdsg, 2001Jet, 96passat, 86jet, 81 jet, 78pickup all vw diesel.
doesnt the dsg out run the standard...

ie the jap guy on youtube drives both and the dsg wins both times... as a dsg shifts infinitly faster that a standard??

I drove a standard for years.. but now my old age and uncle arthur make the dsg a winner... I get 44 mpg with my 06 dsg vrs 46 with my 01 standard..

my 09 dsg gets 42mpg but its only got 3k on it so its a bit tight yet and only used on weekend city commutes.

1100 bucks over a 10 year life is 110 bucks a year not to shift. I had to replace the clutch on my 01 early on due to slippage but I got it done under the 10 year 100000mile warrantee.. that would have cost me $600 plus if I had to pay for it. When I sold the car at 100k miles, the clutch would slip on really cold days but I chose to baby it to extend the life till I sold it. again that was another $600 plus I would have dumped the dmf at that time.

so your $$ leeway is starting to dwindle a bit..


figures never lie
liers always figure.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I'm on my original clutch at 426k miles :D

This is on a car with an 020 trans, no DMF to worry about, and only 52hp :eek:
 

BioPassat

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
Ventura County
TDI
2005 VW Passat GL TDI
Clueless..

Variant TDI said:
I'll give a pass to those with injuries, but using traffic as a justification is a cop-out.
Are you serious? :rolleyes: If you truly believe that then you've NEVER been in LA traffic! I'd like to see you with a manual tranny in LA traffic that takes you 2 hours to cover a couple miles in bumper to bumper traffic going like 2-3MPH...

I remember driving one of my manual Mustangs in LA traffic like above. I pulled a muscle in my left leg after a few hours in really bad traffic. (It has a stage 3 performance clutch that's a PITA to push in.) I bought my Lincoln LS V8 that same week and never looked back.

Manual Tranny + LA Traffic = Don't move to LA or buy a VERY comfortable vehicle with an Automatic Transmission with locking torque converter.
 

mrchaotica

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
1998 New Beetle
BioPassat said:
Are you serious? :rolleyes: If you truly believe that then you've NEVER been in LA traffic! I'd like to see you with a manual tranny in LA traffic that takes you 2 hours to cover a couple miles in bumper to bumper traffic going like 2-3MPH...
Pfft! LA's got nothing on Atlanta! If both me and my girlfriend can do bumper-to-bumper crawls in our manual transmission cars, then you can too!:mad:
 

Variant TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Location
SS, MD.
TDI
2002 Golf Variant, Reflex Silver
BioPassat said:
Are you serious? :rolleyes: If you truly believe that then you've NEVER been in LA traffic!
I am.

and... yeah... to burst your Cali-centric bubble... I have.

I was expecting it to be so much worse... Sure there were a lot of cars... but aside from that... I was kinda let down.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
Wow, I was hoping this could be a good discussion on transmissions. Turns out since VWAG can't build a decent automatic or "tiptronic", the insecure devotees become purist about manuals. ***? Hope you all can take some ribbing.....
 

Sip'n Diesel

Veteran Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
TDI
2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
UFO said:
Wow, I was hoping this could be a good discussion on transmissions. Turns out since VWAG can't build a decent automatic or "tiptronic", the insecure devotees become purist about manuals. ***? Hope you all can take some ribbing.....
no. this is a discussion on why you should not buy a DSG
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
Sip'n Diesel said:
no. this is a discussion on why you should not buy a DSG
The twin-clutch transmission, also known as the Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG), R-Tronic or S-Tronic, is an automated transmission that can change gears faster than any other geared transmission. Twin-clutch transmissions can be shifted either manually or automatically. They deliver more power and better control than a traditional automatic transmission and faster performance than a manual transmission. Originally marketed by Volkswagen and Audi as the DSG and R/S-Tronic transmission, twin-cluch transmissions are now being offered by other automakers.
OK. DSG=transmission. Discuss merits. :D
 

boutmuet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Long Beach, CA
TDI
2015 BMW 328d
Obviously whether to get a DSG or Stick is a personal option but looking at all the threads about DSG problems there certainly seems to be reliability concerns.
 

boutmuet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Long Beach, CA
TDI
2015 BMW 328d
BioPassat said:
Are you serious? :rolleyes: If you truly believe that then you've NEVER been in LA traffic!
Your talking to someone who practically lives in LA. It is true my current car is an auto but I have driven cars around LA in a stick and have no problems with the traffic. Personally I find that the automatic takes away from the driving experience.
 
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LarryR

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Location
N. California
TDI
75 914
thebigarniedog said:
This subject seems to come up frequently with a staunch group of supporters and detractors on both sides. In the interest of "fairness" I think most of these issues center on the comparative advantages/cost of DSG ownership versus the available Manual Transmissions offered by VW. I understand that most people don't know how to drive a manual transmission.

You can call it whatever you want (DSG, Tripotonic etc.) getting a new or newer car should not be an exercise in settling for something that you would regret over the ownership life of the vehicle. So an automatic transmission on an otherwise pristine vehicle is a deal breaker for some like myself, but thats just me and my opinion. Now if my wife or her girlfriends were buying the car for their use, they would opt for an automatic transmission (i.e. DSG). The consensus from them would be that a proper ladies car has an automatic transmission. I don't know if that is the general consensus of women or if you share the same opinion.

That said, the point of this thread is to avoid the typical hyperbole and too have a rational discussion on the topic. Here are some points that I think need to be addressed:

1. Most people prefer a manual transmission over a DSG. I had a thread poll on this forum on this subject that had several dozen respondents representing a significant majority that agreed that they would not buy a car with a DSG. A certain member rightly criticized the sample size of the Poll as being less than 50 respondents. That said, here is a vortex Poll with a sampling of 2500 persons: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2463257 The responding individuals had a sample return rate similar to my offered poll. Would a fair reading of these results indicate that buying a VW with a DSG cost you on resale? Seems like a fair conclusion. What do you think?

2. The initial selection cost of the DSG should be a deal breaker. Look, VW's homepage list the DSG as an "upgrade" option to a standard transmission. I think this is a oxymoron as the DSG is arguably detracting value from a VW and is an inferior transmission. The "upgrade price" is $1,100 for the DSG. http://www.vw.com/vwfeatures/jetta/en/us/ . I hope the link is valid. It is from VW's homepage. Why are people paying $1,100 to select an arguably inferior transmission?

3. Service cost of the DSG is ridiculous. Service cost for the DSG (every 40(k) miles seems to be between $300-$500 depending on the place of service. Assuming that the person is buying the tdi for it's intended use (i.e. 200(k) miles or more) that adds up to $1500-$2000 compared to a few hundred dollars for typical service on a manual tranny. It is unclear what the life expectancy for a DSG will be therefore it would be unfair to compare it to the known quantity of a manual tranny. Obviously, if the DSG fails the replacement cost would be extreme. Are buyer's being advised of this extra cost?

4. DSG failures. Their out there and there seems to be a lot of confusion over what is and is not covered under the VW warranty. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=235168 . Are people considering these "failures" in their purchasing decision?
LOL I love the implication of open conversation when you say only a woman would drive a DSG :rolleyes: . I purchased 2 DSG cars one for my wife and one for myself. My TDI is my commuter car. I have no desire to sit in bumper to bumper traffic and shift a bazillion times.

I do on the other hand have a 914 and a early 911 to give me the more raw driving experience. I dont drive them on my commute as they are my weekend toys.

Now a guy that feels like he has to have his hand on a stick all the time might have identity issues to address :eek: (just joking of course since you implied only a woman would not want a stick LOL!!!)
 
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