Why you replace (or at least check) pivot ball/arm when doing clutch...

[Nuje]

Putting a LUK 17-050 in a friend's car, and the bell housing was just filthy with oily gunk; cleaned it out and finally got down to the pivot ball, only to find NOTHING left of the rubber on the pivot ball, and a pretty nasty dent in the pivot arm socket. Glad we caught this now (310K km).

 

[KrashDH]

Dang that's nasty!

 

[Tdijarhead]

My first clutch job I got to that point and found more or less the same thing you did and said, “that’ll be ok” ....yeah right. I had to pull the transmission again and replace those parts. Now I just order a new pivot pin and clip when I do a clutch job, and replace them regardless of how they look.

 

[KrashDH]

My first clutch job I got to that point and found more or less the same thing you did and said, “that’ll be ok” ....yeah right. I had to pull the transmission again and replace those parts. Now I just order a new pivot pin and clip when I do a clutch job, and replace them regardless of how they look.

I just did my clutch a few months ago and found the pivot ball and fork were in great shape. No wear on the the ball, the fork was just a little shiny from rubbing. I used a new ball, but the new fork I purchased (from a reputable vendor, I won't name) had switched suppliers for their forks. They missed the mark and the design was not correct, it wouldn't allow the spring clip to be installed into the fork, around the pivot ball, and secure back to the fork. Needless to say I stuck with the OEM fork since it was in good shape.

 

[wonneber]

When I changed my clutch I replaced the pivot, arm, throughout bearing, and the Input Shaft Sleeve that had the seal already installed.
Plus any TTY bolts.
The axel nut is one time (iIrc) and the six bolts holding the inner CV to the flange.
I didn't have to worry about pulling the trans again.

 

[03TDICommuter]

Timely post. I've been careful tromping on the throttle on my NB in 5th gear, but a few weeks ago I got it to slip in 4th ~ 2200 RPM.

I'm creating a shopping list of parts
-Luk 17-050 clutch set (which I understand includes new flywheel bolts
- dogbone mount bolts
- transmission mount bolts (to the trans and to the body)
- pivot ball, clip, arm
- Harbor Freight engine support brace

Question for the group:
- is the throw out bearing included with the Luk kit trustworthy? (as good as OEM?)
- The 'snout' on the transmission that the throwout bearing rides on - does it go bad/get ridged/wear ? ( I remember doing a clutch when I was a teen on a friend's VW Dasher, and this part was made from thin sheetmetal and had broken.)
- any other parts needed? (gaskets for inner CV joints?)

 

[Nuje]

- is the throw out bearing included with the Luk kit trustworthy? (as good as OEM?)

LUK is part of the Schaeffler group of brands that includes INA, FAG, Continental - all brands that I've used repeatedly on my VWs; if I didn't use them, I don't know who I'd go with for the throw-out bearing.

- The 'snout' on the transmission that the throwout bearing rides on - does it go bad/get ridged/wear ? ( I remember doing a clutch when I was a teen on a friend's VW Dasher, and this part was made from thin sheetmetal and had broken.)

I've never done anything with it; manual says to put a thin layer of grease on the sleeve, so that's all I've ever done.

- any other parts needed? (gaskets for inner CV joints?)

Back to one of your previous statements: The dogbone mount bolts are no longer listed as TTY - they're simply 25Nm on the ones into the subframe and 50Nm on the other two, so provided nothing's too corroded, I just re-use them.

Other things:

• 12-point axle nut (although i've re-used that in the past, with just some red loc-tite on them). Requires 30mm 12-point socket. Pay attention to tightening sequence when putting it back (something like 150Nm, then immediately back 180°; roll the car half a tire revolution forward, tighten nut to 50Nm + 60° (don't quote me on numbers).
• Something to press the axles out of the steering knuckle - if they've been in there since the car left the factory, they might be reluctant to come out.
• Rear main seal? I know some people leave it be, but I figure as long as I'm in there, and it's been almost 20yrs, I figure it's done its job and time for a new one. They have a rubber gasket at the bottom now (the part that mates with the oil pan), so provided you get the old RTV residue off, you should've have a problem getting a good seal there.

 

[03TDICommuter]

• Something to press the axles out of the steering knuckle - if they've been in there since the car left the factory, they might be reluctant to come out.

Thanks Nuje for the reply - I'll re-use the dogbone bolts and not worry about the TO bearing that comes with the kit.

Regarding removing the axles - I read a long post on this forum about removing the transmission, and most of the posts said the axles can remain in place - just 'tie them up high and out of the way'. One person did say removing the driver's side helped gain some room. I'll likely pull the driver's side, bagging both inner joints up so I don't get dirt into them so I don't need to repack them.

 

[Tdijarhead]

I do the real seal also. I figure as long as I’m in there....

Just be aware of the seal installation procedure. The seal is made of Teflon and comes with a plastic disk holding it in shape. That disk is also your installation tool. Clean the crank throughly with alcohol/brake cleaner line the seal up and push it in place , as you do the disk will pop out and your seal will be ready to bolt into place.

Make sure there is no oil on the crankshaft where the seal will be touching and do not move the crankshaft for 4 hours, which shouldn’t be a problem by the time you get the transmission reinstalled.

 

[PakProtector]

From a wholistic PM pov, and for ease of getting things apart, draining the gear lube, and pulling the pass side drive hub out makes things easier. So does removing the DS axle. The new electric impacts make short work of the axle nut( 1400 ft-lb, 18V Milwaukee ).

If there is no catastrophic failure of the throw out bearing, the input shaft seal snout is probably OK. The fork and pivot ball get replaced as a matter of course. Since the kits all come wid throw out bearings, reminding you to change them always seems needless...buuuuut, I have seen some silly stuff by now( it is not broken; put it back).

Douglas

 

[03TDICommuter]

push it in place , as you do the disk will pop out and your seal will be ready to bolt into place.

Make sure there is no oil on the crankshaft where the seal will be touching and do not move the crankshaft for 4 hours, which shouldn’t be a problem by the time you get the transmission reinstalled.

Thanks. Question though - can the seal be pushed on if the oil pan is still installed?

 

[Nuje]

Thanks. Question though - can the seal be pushed on if the oil pan is still installed?

Yes - there are two 10mm bolts that go through the oil pan into the bottom of the rear seal; those are the only two oil pan bolts you need to remove.

 

[burn_your_money]

The "snout" on the transmission holds the input shaft seal. I've been told they are sold together only. I always change it.

 

[03TDICommuter]

Received my Luk 17050 kit today - thankfully the TO bearing survived as it and the flywheel/PP/disk assy were loose inside the Luk box. TO bearing itself uses an INA bearing - quality looks good. Now to order the rest of the bolts, arm,pivot and getting the courage to start. Looking forward to not having to baby the throttle.