Why I gave up on VW

[Tarka]

I've had a lot of Jetta TDIs over the years and one Passat gas model, but when my last Jetta TDI was up for renewal this past January, I walked away from VW. Well, not so much walked away, but was pushed away by VW itself. I have always said good things about my dealership, Hunt Club Motors in Ottawa, but the product itself suffered from an appalling lack of value. They have taken so much out of the cars over the years that I began to look around to see what other manufacturers were doing. Specifically, I was royally upset when they took away a real four-wheel suspension, the engine coolant gauge, the option of AWD ($4,000 extra for 4Motion), the two plastic hooks for your shopping bags in the trunk, and a few other items I missed. So where have I gone? To a Subaru Legacy - full-time AWD, an engine coolant gauge that was put back in after customers complained at them being removed, a far better suspension, incredible balance and control in sharp manoeuvres, better and more controllable seats on both sides, lots of legroom in the front and rear, a better infotainment system, etc. Subaru's Eyesight system is an incredible value at only $1,300 and has at least a year's lead in deployment over all other manufacturers for the same features. The Subaru product was far better value at both ends of the purchasing scale. True, there's no diesel, but the money saved by not paying for the TDI premium will buy a lot of gas. Not even a fully loaded Passat comes close in features and value to a fully loaded Legacy. For equivalent value elsewhere, you have to look at some models of Infiniti, Lexus, Acura and Audi. TTFN.

 

[jjtoutt]

I have to agree with the temp gauge, its insane to not have one. There has got to be some gauge that tells you when to step on it

 

[radoroc]

They cheaped out on all mk6 Jetta's up until 2014, except for the gli. It was to compete with the corolla's, civics etc. The Golf was their premium car and has all those things you mentioned.

 

[nord]

Not to rain on anyone's parade but every manufacturer has a dark side. For VW it seems that there's a distinct inconsistency in customer care and public relations. VW also seems (or seemed) to believe that they could cut minor features, lower the price point, and still produce a desirable vehicle. Apparently nobody at VW studied the history of the Vega where even the glove compartment door was an option. The lessons being that very little profit could be derived from a vehicle that offered little value and that consumers are not necessarily driven by the price point.

Then desirability. Why would any manufacturer, except maybe GM, wish to tarnish their brand by producing what amounts to a modern day Yugo? Perhaps VW has seen the light and is now offering a nicer scoot, building in slightly less margin, and attempting to regain lost customers. It would seem to me that if VW wanted to sell a less expensive line, then they might use the SKODA badge instead of ruining the Jetta line.

On to other manufacturers... Since Subaru was mentioned, let's just stick with them. The Subaru reputation is stellar and has been growing for many years. Great reliable cars. That is so I thought. A client of mine is in the car business and I happened to be in his facility for what started off as a bad day. Two Subies on the rack, each with different problems. Both serious.

First was a seven year old car which wouldn't pass inspection. Corrosion was pervasive as was the associated damage to brake lines, suspension components, and brakes. Worse yet, several OEM replacement parts were found to be defective after or during the install.

Second was a three or four year old wagon. This car had a bad internal "thump" in the motor. Long story short it was toast. In speaking with my client I found that the late Subaru line has some serious issues. Corrosion and driveline problems once unheard of are now fairly common.

All I'm getting at is that no manufacturer is perfect. Old lessons painfully learned seem to eventually be forgotten and rolled out once again. The result is unfailingly the same. And all for that elusive extra few dollars of margin that might be realized for every unit manufactured. Strange that it isn't seen the other way wherein a few extra dollars are spent, the margin per unit slightly decreased, but a more desirable product is offered and more vehicles are sold.

But what do I know? I'm only a consumer, I have my likes and dislikes, and I'm pretty much aware of what lies under the skin of my vehicles.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

I've had a lot of Jetta TDIs over the years and one Passat gas model, but when my last Jetta TDI was up for renewal this past January, I walked away from VW.

Well, not so much walked away, but was pushed away by VW itself. I have always said good things about my dealership, Hunt Club Motors in Ottawa, but the product itself suffered from an appalling lack of value.

They have taken so much out of the cars over the years that I began to look around to see what other manufacturers were doing. Specifically, I was royally upset when they took away a real four-wheel suspension, the engine coolant gauge, the option of AWD ($4,000 extra for 4Motion), the two plastic hooks for your shopping bags in the trunk, and a few other items I missed.

So where have I gone? To a Subaru Legacy - full-time AWD, an engine coolant gauge that was put back in after customers complained at them being removed, a far better suspension, incredible balance and control in sharp manoeuvres, better and more controllable seats on both sides, lots of legroom in the front and rear, a better infotainment system, etc.

Subaru's Eyesight system is an incredible value at only $1,300 and has at least a year's lead in deployment over all other manufacturers for the same features. The Subaru product was far better value at both ends of the purchasing scale.

True, there's no diesel, but the money saved by not paying for the TDI premium will buy a lot of gas. Not even a fully loaded Passat comes close in features and value to a fully loaded Legacy.

For equivalent value elsewhere, you have to look at some models of Infiniti, Lexus, Acura and Audi. TTFN.

There, fixed it for you. Don't they teach paragraph breaks or punctuation in school anymore?

Anyway, Suburu does make a quality product and if it meets your requirements, I would say it's all good.

I would say that if a car brand does not meet your expectations, move on. I would certainly pass on the cheesy decontented years that VW seemed to think were appropriate.

Excuse me VW, I do not want a Corolla, although a great car for what it is, with a VW badge on it...............

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Hope you enjoy the Subaru. There's a new Legacy in our parking lot, it looks nice, although a bit like a Taurus. And I'd find the CVT intolerable, along with their stupid engine firing order that always make them sound like they're going to die.

My mother has owned Foresters for years, many of them, because they are pretty rusty here in New England after two or three years. Not that durable. And she had an Impreza that had the oil pan fail (no impact, it just failed) and took out the engine. The dealer is great, although, IMO, very expensive ($200 for a minor service that's an oil change and tire rotation, for example). And her current Forester is loud, doors sound tinny, and truly gutless. Floor it at 70 MPH and nothing happens.

You bought the wrong VW, IMO. The current Jetta TDI is a mish-mash of cost cutting and expensive technology. Nice car, but the TDI isn't a great value. The 2.slow is. My daughter has one, and I enjoy driving it. It doesn't have a lot of features, but it was very inexpensive. When it comes to TDIs a Golf or Sportwagen is a more cohesive vehicle.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Apparently nobody at VW studied the history of the Vega where even the glove compartment door was an option.

Apparently you didn't study the Vega either. The glove box door was standard through the entire run (including the Monza body version based on the Vega chassis).

Now, the temperature gauge comment is pertinent, because had the Vega had that to notify the operators that the undersized (cost cutting) radiator couldn't keep up, there's have been fewer overheating incidents.
The liner-less silicon-nodule aluminum block alloy was genius and was duplicated by Porsche for the block in the 944 and 928. The GM use of the cast iron head on top of the alloy block was idiocy and THAT was the main issue due to the thermal expansion issues of the small radiator.
Note that the Cosworth Vega had an aluminum head as well as the block (as did the 944 and 928) and the small Vega radiator was an advantage from a weight saving point. No head / block warping and coolant wash down in that alloy/alloy package.

Subies? Coarse, 70k life engines, that aren't particularly smooth no matter how much the US marketers tout the boxer design.
AWD? Yeah, in the US. The marketers had to differentiate themselves from better cars and decided to import only the 4WD and then AWD versions of the 2WD cars.
Now that other makers have better product with optional AWD (not forced on the buyer, but available if desired) Subie had to move up, literally, raising ground clearance to not be a car but to be classed as light duty trucks and exempt from more stringent car safety and emission requirement.

Yes, I'm a former owner of Vegas and Subarus.

 

[nord]

Lug,

I believe we agree but disagree. I believe I may be speaking of the Chevette. My neighbor had one most definitely without so much as a glove box door. Fact is he'd probably have elected for no seats if he could have done so.

My other neighbor sprung for one with a diesel engine. That thing was a hoot on a cold winter morning. All sorts of noise, a big cloud of smoke, and really not much else. I had a diesel Rabbit at the time which by comparison was a technological marvel. Nowhere near the smoke or noise of the Chevette.

Bottom line was then and is now that cheap is not always a good idea.

 

[Steve-o]

I believe I may be speaking of the Chevette. My neighbor had one most definitely without so much as a glove box door.

Back in the day, the loss-leader Chevette also featured cardboard door cards with a pull strap (no armrest). GM outdid itself on cheap on that one.

Bottom line was then and is now that cheap is not always a good idea.

It also didn't help that the Chevette was an archaic design when it was first introduced to the U.S. Rear-wheel drive, wheezer engine, cr@p fit and finish (though not unusual for the day),...

I remember the Rabbits of that era were fairly low-level compared to the Mazda GLCs and Honda Civics of the day -- 4-speed transmissions instead of 5-speeds, (at least in the late 70s) few options for cloth upholstery, and a distinct lack of little convenience features (features like those hooks in the trunk). Yet they sold because they offered a driving experience and a paradigm that Mazda and Honda did not (at the time).

Simple and reliable is enough to sell a car. Ask Toyota about their Corolla. But obviously cheap and unreliable? People catch on to that one fairly quickly.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

1981 Chevette Scooter 4 speed was my first car. I think I ruined 5 rims and at least 2 axles hitting curbs while fishtailing in the rain. Fun car for a 16 year old.

 

[Abacus]

I was with a guy who went from 3rd to reverse to avoid colliding with a semi truck. I had no idea that was possible but it handled it. Definitely a fun car for a teenager. They stuff he put that through was amazing.

 

[El Dobro]

For years, I would drive by a Chevette diesel while on my way to work. It was being used 'cause it would be in different parking spots. A few years ago, it disappeared and a HHR popped up where it used to be. I'm sure that owner got his money's worth out of his Chevette.

 

[GreenLantern_TDI]

So many companies not just automakers are watering down their products in order to pocket a few more dollars. Its truelly sad when name brands that usta be trusted get run into the dirt by corner cuting greed. Capitalism is like a woman... When shes sweet life is amazing but when she comes to collect life can be hell on earth.

 

[Jeta Life]

Cost cutting is happening with not just VW but with other car companies too. People also but we all have to work harder, romance included. Lord my lady puts up with a lot of slack from me but I'm working on it.
Ladies love romance, write a note with a simple flower or thing. Simplicity is the key, I think.
VW is trying to simplify like the Asian car companies, they're trying to save just like anybody else who has a lot of bills. Me today for instance. In the supermarket I alerted the cashier on a bunch of misplaced bags of potato chips I thought were on sale as there was a sign right near there I guess misplaced by a stock person. I did not get angry but I told him to alert his manager of the mishap.
What can we do, just try to be more positive and drive without too much worry.
Peace

 

[gmcjetpilot]

A colleague picked me up at the airport with a new Mazda 3, top of the line package. I was impressed. Peppy, nice high quality interior, advertised EPA 42 mpg, but his real world LA traffic miles low 30's according to him.

As far as Subaru, I was always impressed. My first one was a used 1982 4-Dr Door GL, 2-wheel front drive only. The trunk luggage rack with real hard wood strips was cool. It was light blue and looked so understated cops never pulled me over when speeding. The horizontal four push rod OH lifters had low end torque. With the 5 speed manual I easily go in the high 30's I recall with no thought of driving economically (hyper mile'g).... I don't need AWD where I live now, but when I had the Subaru, I'd go snow skiing. Driving up the snowy pass with cables on the front tires, I felt very confident in the snow. I wish Subaru would bring their diesel to USA. Subaru like all cars are far more complicated than my 1982 Subie GL, so Subaru is not immune from big expensive issues. My friends wife blew her turbo but kept driving.... toasted engine. She had the turbo just replaced by an independent shop... long story.

I took a ride in another colleague's new car, Honda Civic Si, manual trans., Yawn. Mileage is not great; fit and finish was good, quality OK, nothing special, same old average. It will be a good car for him. It had some electronic do-dads, right side turn camera, again not impressed. I'm a fan of Honda driving Acura for a long time.... I just thought the Mazda had way more style, quality...

Yes I am tired of VW de-contenting their cars. They do it to compete and profits. If you want more car, you need to go to Audi or BMW if you want German. I think Audi still has a 2.0L TDI model....

 

[TypeRod]

I was new to the VW family in 2012 as well as my parents. We bought 2 VW's together and got a good deal on them. I got a 2012 Tiguan SEL and my parents got a 2012 Passat 2.5L (can't remember which trim). So with my Tiguan, I didn't like the transmission shifting from the get go, it just tried to get into 6th get way to quickly, but this is how it was designed, and then I eventually came to find out that the car will learn how you drive, and then I learn to just give it more gas to keep it in gear longer, and it eventually it pretty much worked itself out and I was "almost" satisfied with how it shifted. Well come to find out other folks are not liking how the trans shifted and VW came out with a transmission update. I was torn about getting the update but I went ahead and got it anyway. Then my trans was doing little quirky things that was not there originally. I eventually couldn't deal with how the trans was working after the update, VW could not revert back to the old S/W, and they would not do anything further to resolve my issue, they claim that it is working as designed.

So I went and traded it in (only after about 5 months of ownership) for a 2013 Passat TDI SEL Prem. I was in love with it, the car is super roomy, trunk is super roomy, and engine was super efficient, i love the fuel mileage. Then my turbo failed just like quite a bit of people. it was a lease, but I was planning on keeping the car after the lease, but after the turbo failure and feeling of abandoment by the car and safety concerns (since it did leave me and my kids almost stranded on 95 while crossing the Woodrow wilson bridge into Maryland), I just could not rely or trust that vehicle again. So I got rid of that and got a 2014 Grand Cherokee, which then had CV boot failure within the first 30 miles of ownership! lol! I couldn't believe it, my luck just wasn't there to get a new vehicle that won't fail me! lol! Turns out there was a mess up from the vendor who made the axles for Chrysler and thousands of vehicle were having this issue.

Then about a year ago, my parents' 2012 Passat had an issue where the engine loss compression as my mom was driving home from an errand. It turns out the crankshaft key, had "fell" out somehow and the crankshaft slipped and the timing was thrown off. According to the dealership, no damage was done to any pistons or valves. Car had less than 20k miles on it. My dad doesn't like VW, and will never buy another, lol.

So thats 3 VW's that have had a negative effect on my life and my family's lives, and although I really love love the Passat TDI, I won't buy another, till at least they get a different turbo in there. I think the turbo maybe a bit small and working too hard as well as the warm up routine needs to be changed, which VW has a S/W change for that but doesn't seem to be fixing the turbo failures. I may just go Audi or Porsche for my diesel needs, or just go American with a Duramax.

 

[chudzikb]

I got the 15 Mazda 3 GT with a 6 speed manual for the wife. It is a great car, fun to drive and so far bullet proof. She misses her diesel, but, it just made sense, diesel was almost a dollar more than premium around here at times.
I really wanted a common rail, had a 09 wagon ordered, cancelled it before it came in, dodged that bullet.
Recently sold my Euorvan weekender, could not take the auto tragic and its tendencies to blow up. PO told me, just drive like there is an eggshell on the gas pedal and you will be fine. Well, I was fine, but, who wants to have a nice 24 valve VR and not be able to use it? So, for next van plan on a transit connect by Ford.

Oh, and do you all know that many manufactures have eliminated the gas filter on cars as a cost saving measure? Does that make any sense? I thought not either.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I may just go Audi or Porsche for my diesel needs, or just go American with a Duramax.

Just so you know, VW, Audi, and Porsche all share the same diesel engines. And Duramax's are hardly trouble-free.

 

[Tarka]

I have just returned from a 1900 km round trip into northern Ontario. From Ottawa, I went up through North Bay, but returned through Val d'Or, QC. The 2015 Subaru is a far better handling car than the last Jetta, far quieter, and almost as economical. Ok ... at 6.3l/100 km or 44.4 mpg equivalent, that's within 20% of what I would have expected from the TDI, given the speeds and driving conditions. I'm happy with that.

I'll check back in next year at this time with an annual report.

And Ol' Rattler? I can't fix his attention deficit disorder.

 

[Justinpar]

Subaru... Have fun with head gasket issues!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Subaru... Have fun with head gasket issues!

Pretty sure that's a thing of the past.

 

[n1das]

.....I am tired of VW de-contenting their cars. They do it to compete and profits. If you want more car, you need to go to Audi or BMW if you want German. ....

It seems VW has been decontenting the VW brand for the NA market to get more Honda Accord and Toyota Camry owners to cross over to VW, however most of them will still buy only Accords and Camrys no matter what. I for one was p!$$ed to see that VW only offers rear drum brakes on the entry level Jetta. 4-wheel disc brakes have been standard on all NA models for a long time. VW's decontenting sems to be alienating VW enthusiasts and wants them to cross over to the Audi brand.

Did VW's latest marketing strategy work for me? Nope!! VW lost me to BMW diesels. Gassers weren't a consideration at all.

 

[GreenLantern_TDI]

How is BMW diesel reliability? Better then VW?

 

[Pat Dolan]

I have never failed to chastise VW for what it offers North American buyers. But getting back to the Chevette: While Rabbits outsold them in the beginning, once GM put a 4 door Chevette on the market, they outsold Rabbits overnight and by the early '80s, GM was selling more Chevettes than VW was cars in this market. So, as far as it goes for what average consumers will buy, the quality of the product is secondary.

What really DOES bug my arse is that I get very little choice EXCEPT to buy the decontented or bottom model (if at all) of what I want. I do blame VW for not providing any leadership in this market, but there is also the US government meddling in the business with repressive legislation and compliance costs claimed to be in the name of safety and emissions - but that are actually protectionist and nothing more (think chicken tax at the top of that list - and the one that keeps a T5 out of my driveway).

 

[South Coast Guy]

I have never failed to chastise VW for what it offers North American buyers. But getting back to the Chevette: While Rabbits outsold them in the beginning, once GM put a 4 door Chevette on the market, they outsold Rabbits overnight and by the early '80s, GM was selling more Chevettes than VW was cars in this market. So, as far as it goes for what average consumers will buy, the quality of the product is secondary.

What really DOES bug my arse is that I get very little choice EXCEPT to buy the decontented or bottom model (if at all) of what I want. I do blame VW for not providing any leadership in this market, but there is also the US government meddling in the business with repressive legislation and compliance costs claimed to be in the name of safety and emissions - but that are actually protectionist and nothing more (think chicken tax at the top of that list - and the one that keeps a T5 out of my driveway).

We all know what happened to the Chevette and Rabbit, but that was 30 years ago. Quality of cars is correlated (but not 100%) with price; spend more and get a better car. Since you live in Canada, why are you blaming the US government for wanting safe cars that don't pollute? Or do you believe that since you can't see it, it must not exist? New cars get better mileage, pollute less and have more power than cars made 30 years ago. And that is good.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Actually, it was 40 years ago: the Rabbit was introduced in 1975. And the Chevette benefited from huge fleet sales: if you wanted a subcompact from Avis in that era you got a Chevette. Take off your shoes so you won't step on the accelerator and brake together and you'll be fine.

Pat, I don't know what you mean by de-contented VWs. SELs in Jetta/Golf/Passat are pretty well equipped. And also available at that trim level (except for the Passat) with manual transmissions, a big plus in my opinion.

 

[mrvermin]

So I went and traded it in (only after about 5 months of ownership) for a 2013 Passat TDI SEL Prem. I was in love with it, the car is super roomy, trunk is super roomy, and engine was super efficient, i love the fuel mileage. Then my turbo failed just like quite a bit of people. it was a lease, but I was planning on keeping the car after the lease, but after the turbo failure and feeling of abandoment by the car and safety concerns (since it did leave me and my kids almost stranded on 95 while crossing the Woodrow wilson bridge into Maryland), I just could not rely or trust that vehicle again.

The issue with the VW 2.0 CR TDI in the Passat of that year was that the Oil Feed line would kink and starve the turbo causing the failure. I think they fixed that for the 2014 and up

BTW, try and find a car today that is virtually bullet proof for issues. My mom has a Hyundai Elantra where the Mitsubishi sourced transmission has failed under warranty and needs to be replaced. Then my brother got the Genisys Sedan and the backup camera has never worked from day 1, it took Hyundai 4 months to get the replacement in for the warranty repair. On top of that there is already paint peeling on the window trim and the car is just over a year old.

MrVermin

 

[mrvermin]

How is BMW diesel reliability? Better then VW?

BMW used an aluminum block on the 3.5L twin turbo diesel in the 335d, they just sleeved it with a steel sleeve to help it stay together. I believe the same engine is in the 535d and X5 35d, so long term durability is in question.

The X3 2.8d and the 328d that are coming out over here now are better engines.

MrVermin

 

[mrvermin]

Actually, it was 40 years ago: the Rabbit was introduced in 1975. And the Chevette benefited from huge fleet sales: if you wanted a subcompact from Avis in that era you got a Chevette. Take off your shoes so you won't step on the accelerator and brake together and you'll be fine.

Pat, I don't know what you mean by de-contented VWs. SELs in Jetta/Golf/Passat are pretty well equipped. And also available at that trim level (except for the Passat) with manual transmissions, a big plus in my opinion.

That's where Canada get an advantage, we can get the Passat SEL with Navi (Passat Highline in Canada) with the 6spd MT

MrVermin

 

[NYC-TDI]

How is BMW diesel reliability? Better then VW?

I never owned one but a coworker had a 335d. After 3 years he had had enough. I forget what the final straw was but I do remember it was going to cost him big bucks. Prior to that he had several other issues.

Interestingly where I work several of us had bought VW & BMW diesels when they first started coming out in 2009. (NY, no new diesels for sale before that). About 7 or 8 if I remember correctly. We are all diesel mechanics / engineers (work on ships) so we thought we knew what we were getting into. Within that time all except one of us has gotten rid of our diesels. Just problem after problem after problem. 2 HPFP failures that were never reported here or to NHTSA. DPF problems, turbo problems. There is only one of our original group who still has his TDI and has had no problems since purchase. The rest of us gave up and moved on.