Why do evaporators freeze ?

Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
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96 glx variant tdi
I put a new sanden sd7v16 on my 03 jetta, added 2 cans of the cold stuff (yes, I know technically it's a few ounces low but I dropped my scale and broke it) and thought all was good. But.... the evaporators freezes as vent temps reach near zero f. What actually controls the temperature, the rcv in the compressor ? Something else ? Any suggestions ? Thanks.
 

Powder Hound

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Well, the temperature is controlled by the boiling rate of the coolant liquid in the evaporator. Usually, if it is freezing up on you, that means there is insufficient coolant in the system. Even a new compressor shouldn't suck so hard that the boiling point in the evaporator will drop to 0F given there is sufficient coolant in the system.. It should bottom out at around 30F or so. 35F would be better. If you turn the temp dial up off of severe cold, does the air temp blowing out warm up and the frost on the evaporator melt away?

Hmmm... thinking about it, is the compressor switching on and off when it frosts up? Do you have a gauge set that can tell you what the high side and low side pressures are while running the system?

Cheers,

PH
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
Ambient Air is around 85f, pressure readings are 33 / 175 with vent temp of 35 and dropping slowly.

Edit: a short 2 mile trip around the block had the vent temp down to 16 and dropping.
 
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ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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2015 JETTA TDI SE
Using the incorrect gas to refill can be an issue...
When a conversion is done, several changes are made to keep the system working correctly based on the gas to be used in addition to new seals. Expansion Valve changes is typical but there are several different designs that use different parts to accomplish the same thing.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
This wasn't a conversion. The old sd7v16 was leaking from everywhere. A new sd7v16 was installed. Oil from old compressor measured and new oil added to the replacement compressor. I'm still thinking it has to do with the rcv not allowing the compressor to cycle.
 

compu_85

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... None :S
What controls the temperature of the evaporator is the suction pressure, which is controlled by the RCV. It should keep the low side pressures such that the evaporator stays above freezing when the system is properly charged with R134a.

-J
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
And those compressors do not "cycle". That's kinda the whole point of a variable displacement type compressor. They switch on, and stay on.

Only time clutch will not engage, or DISengage:

ECU power demand (rarely happens on the diesels)

ECU over temp demand (never happens on the diesels unless something is wrong)

Refrigerant sensor, showing too low (no refrigerant in system) or too high of pressure.

Ambient temp cut out, at temps below around 20F in will over ride the clutch command.

That's pretty much it. If you have an evaporator freezing up, you most likely have an expansion valve problem, or some other blockage in the system from debris, or maybe an airflow problem across the evaporator coils.
 

AndyBees

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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
I recently charged the AC system in my ALH TDI 84 Vanagon. Last September, I flushed each individual section of hose, the condenser and the evaporator. I put it all back together, including a new SD7V16 compressor (modified by me) and a new dryer. The modification involved "plugging" the RCV. I vacuumed the system and let it sit until a hot day this past April.

Then, I connected the manifold gauges and vacuumed it for two hours. I added R134a refrigerant based on the amount required for an MK4 Jetta which, totally was just shine of 3 cans for the Vanagon's system (12 ounces each, if I remember correctly).

Using a digital probe style thermometer in a vent, when the temp reached 35f at a pre-set point on the Temp Setting, I quit adding refrigerant. So, at that setting it cycles off at 35f and will cycle back on at 48 to 50f. The ambient Temp was 85f. The work was all done at engine idling.

Point is: as others have suggested, the system needs the required amount of refrigerant. Low, it will likely freeze-up especially in a high humidity situation. Too low and it will not cool. Too much and it will not cool very well. In my case, I had to feel in the dark to find the magic amount of refrigerant.

Plugging the RCV is necessary because the Thermal Expansion Valve in the Vanagon's system functions entirely different than the TXV in the MK4 Jetta.

Yes, cycling of the AC Compressor Clutch will shorten it's life. But, in the big box Van out on the highway on an 85f plus day in full Sunshine it will not be cycling very often.

So, to the OP, I suggest that you add a smidgen more refrigerant before installing another TXV. The low end suction pressure should be 35psi to 45psi with the high end somewhere above 200psi to about 250psi depending on the ambient temp. Also, we assume that the new compressor come pre-charged with oil.
 
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TurboABA

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Every manufacturer of A/C systems has troubleshooting documents on their respective sites.
Check them out.
Pressure gauges are pretty important when trying to figure out what's going on.
Nissens has a nice poster explaining typical pressures.
 

jjblbi

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2014 Passat SEL TDI
I'm not an a/c mechanic and have been able to get through a couple of VW compressor and condenser replacements over the years. A HF gauge set and googling 134a temp pressure chart are very helpful. Good luck, John
 

GBaugh

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Shelby, MT
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VW 2.0L
A plugged evaporator drain, under the car, could cause freezing. The purpose of the drain is to allow condensation moisture to escape from evaporator compartment. An accumulation of moisture in the evap compartment will more easily freeze.

A TXV stuck open could also cause freezing but that would result in high side psi being low and your manifold pressures appear good for that ambient temp, so TXV issue is unlikely.
 

GBaugh

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I misspoke when I stated your manifold pressures looked good. Your high side pressure is normal for that ambient temp but your low side is higher than normal. I like to see 10-15psi on low side. Your low side psi of 33 deg F indicates an evaporator that is warm which would be consistent with a low refrigerant charge. As other forum members have already stated, correct charge by weight is critical with R134.

A thermostatic de-icing switch stuck electrically closed in the clutch cntl ckt can also cause evap icing but I don't think your vehicle is equipped with that. The purpose of the de-icing sw is to open electrically and shut off the clutch when the evap gets too cold.
 

P2B

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I misspoke when I stated your manifold pressures looked good. Your high side pressure is normal for that ambient temp but your low side is higher than normal. I like to see 10-15psi on low side. Your low side psi of 33 deg F indicates an evaporator that is warm which would be consistent with a low refrigerant charge.
Pressures should be 232 psi high and 22-36 psi low within 30 seconds of compressor engagement per Bentley. OP's low side is in spec, high side is too low.
 

GBaugh

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VW 2.0L
Disregard what I said about your low side being too high. I was thinking of a cycling clutch sys where 15-35psi is normal but yours is not a cycling clutch sys.

With a non cycling TXV sys, 28-32 psi will maintain an evap temp in that sweet spot of about 32 deg F which would be consistent with Bentley spec.

The rough guideline I use to determine what a normal high side psi would be is (ambient temp x 2) +/- 20 deg F. The volume of ram air through the condenser (parked or going down hwy?) as well as rpm, is going to affect high side psi. The cooling load in the passenger cabin and airflow through evap housing is going to affect low side psi.

Going by the OEM svc info is usually a good idea but at the end of the day, putting your hands on the AC pipes in different sections of AC system can be helpful.
outlet of compressor: hot
inlet of condenser: hot to warm
outlet of condenser: warm
outlet of evaporator: cool, several degrees warmer than evap inlet
suction inlet of compressor: cold
 
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Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
My robinair ac machine isn't feeling well lately. I took the car out to a shop for evac/charge. For about 5 or 6 minutes at idle the vent temp held steady at 38degrees, then it plummeted to 10degrees. We can officially rule out the system is undercharged. I'm still betting on the brand new compressor rcv being squirrly.
 

wayose

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just looking
Well, the temperature is controlled by the boiling rate of the coolant liquid in the evaporator. Usually, if it is freezing up on you, that means there is insufficient coolant in the system. Even a new compressor shouldn't suck so hard that the boiling point in the evaporator will drop to 0F given there is sufficient coolant in the system.. It should bottom out at around 30F or so. 35F would be better. If you turn the temp dial up off of severe cold, does the air temp blowing out warm up and the frost on the evaporator melt away?

Hmmm... thinking about it, is the compressor switching on and off when it frosts up? Do you have a gauge set that can tell you what the high side and low side pressures are while running the system?

Cheers,

PH
meetnfuck
The temperature is mainly controlled by the expansion valve or orifice tube not the RCV in the compressor. If your evaporator is freezing, it’s usually caused by low refrigerant charge, a faulty expansion valve, or a clogged orifice tube restricting flow. Since you added less refrigerant than needed, low charge is likely the cause. Make sure the system is properly evacuated and recharged to the correct amount. Also check for proper airflow over the evaporator and confirm the blend door is working correctly.
 

TurboABA

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If the charge is correct, what are the manifold gauges showing you?
How did you diagnose the expansion valve?
 

turbocharged798

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May 21, 2009
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Ellenville, NY
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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
I am thinking try an OEM TXV even if its a used one.

Only other thing is maybe the RCV is stuck in full blast and the TXV can't regulate far down enough.

I am watching this with interest because my 03 golf does the same thing, Can't put the AC down to 1 or 2 because it freezes right up.
 
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