Why bother to accept a buy back?

Cptcrnch

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Nov 21, 2014
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FredCo MD
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2004 Jetta TDI wagon; 2014 Golf TDI (buyback 7/26/17)
I have no desire to have a hack fix done to my 14 Golf and it would take a lot for me to part with it through a buyback. The price offered would have to be really enticing (MSRP + $$$$ but I don't expect that to happen) and that could effectively get me into another car without a loan (I put several thousand down when I bought it, it's still worth more then I owe, and I have $8k that I was saving to use to upgrade the car). If they offered additional incentive to stay in the brand I would consider a new GTI. However the Focus ST and RS models have really caught my attention and I may give them a much closer look once I know what VW is offering. I really don't want to go back to RUG and the decrease in mileage that comes with it. Ford sells a diesel version of ST in Europe but sadly we will never get that here now just like how we don't get the GTD.

If I decide to keep the car (which I really hope happens) I'm installing a CP3 fuel pump, CR170 turbo, and Malone stage 3.5 tune on the car along with some other cosmetic odds and ends.
 
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Graham Line

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Pacific Northwest
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'12 Golf TDI 6M
Buy-back sounds like a no-go for me. There's no information about 2017 TDi availablility and my 2012 is just getting nicely-broken in at 50K miles. There's also the issue of finding a no-sunroof model with a manual transmission. Are the more recent seats as comfortable as the '12s sport seats? None of that even considers the dollar factor.
 

JP-8

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New England
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I agree with the general sentiment of this post. I think (hope) it ends up being a buyback offer that puts me (the buyer) in a financial advantage (i.e., much more than the car is worth). I bought the car for its unique performance to fuel economy ratio. A fix would simply make it a car that doesn't have those same characteristics.

My driving needs also changed since I bought my car (less than 1k miles/month). I have considered replacing my Golf TDI with something sportier, like a BMW E39 M5, E46 M3, a MK6 or MK7 GTI, or maybe a post-Chrysler Mercedes C-Class AMG. Who knows! I'm looking forward to the trade-in. :D
 

dubStrom

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I agree with the general sentiment of this post. I think (hope) it ends up being a buyback offer that puts me (the buyer) in a financial advantage (i.e., much more than the car is worth). I bought the car for its unique performance to fuel economy ratio. A fix would simply make it a car that doesn't have those same characteristics.
My driving needs also changed since I bought my car (less than 1k miles/month). I have considered replacing my Golf TDI with something sportier, like a BMW E39 M5, E46 M3, a MK6 or MK7 GTI, or maybe a post-Chrysler Mercedes C-Class AMG. Who knows! I'm looking forward to the trade-in. :D
The consensus seems to be that when VW rolls out the golden parachute (cough), most of us will be tempted beyond reason.

But I ask again, are you married to the fix? Will your State force it? These are unknowns for some (my State will certainly NOT enforce an EPA mandate, I am sure, maybe some will).

But frankly, the CR 2.0 is actually pretty good (Only NOx offends). Otherwise a darned clean exhaust emission. So if you are allowed to skip past the fix and keep your car as is, WILL YOU?? 40-48mpg and yer torque won't go away if you don't take it in...

FYI, I bought a made in Germany, gently used low miles gorgeous charcoal grey shadow perfect finish bi-turbo BMW 235D (a judge traded it in) with an AWESOME ultra-high end leather option, and it had everything except a manual transmission or blue tooth (they have an a la carte optioning menu, and this guy did not know what bluetooth meant). SERIOUS eye candy. The thing was fun to drive, but lacked true driver input. The transmission over-rode me all the time, even in sport mode using the paddles, and I could not turn off the anti-skid/slip function, which cut the fuel just enough to utterly prevent human control (No VCDS with BMW). Can you find something these days that WON'T do this to you? It drove me crazy since I thought I bought a real driver's car. I traded it for my JSW. I'd love to permanently defeat the ESP, but at least I can shut it off after I start it! You can too. You own a 2014 6MT JSW. OK, not a 235D, but hey, try to FIND a 6MT version! Good luck with that.
 
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gmcjetpilot

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Memphis TN
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2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
Almost 500,000 models sold, it is unlikely they will be rare and valuable. I expect there will always be a market for used diesel, but not a premium market.
That is your opinion and mine is based on what assuming half are off the road with buybacks and sent to crusher... Now they are down to 250,000. Assume there is a demand for fun small efficient diesels with tons of torque. Safe bet. Yes I can assume it will be like the Mk3's, Mk4's and Mk5's and maintain a good resale....

With that said I don't care, enjoy driving car and not for sale..
 

gmcjetpilot

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Took a nice, long, ramble in my new GTI. Got the highway mileage of 34mpg...
Not to doubt your great mirage, but Fuely has average curve 27 MPG.... which is not bad.

The rate MPG is 25/34 for the Golf GTI... Really that is great MPG. However most peoples mix tank to tank is going to mid 20's....

I had a 92 Acura Legend 2Dr coupe and loved it.... I am considering a used 2008 Acura TL (the successor to the Legend). The new design with that "Vee" front is not my cup of tea....
 

JP-8

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New England
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The consensus seems to be that when VW rolls out the golden parachute (cough), most of us will be tempted beyond reason.

But I ask again, are you married to the fix? Will your State force it? These are unknowns for some (my State will certainly NOT enforce an EPA mandate, I am sure, maybe some will).

But frankly, the CR 2.0 is actually pretty good (Only NOx offends). Otherwise a darned clean exhaust flume. So if you are allowed to skip past the fix and keep your car as is, WILL YOU?? 40-48mpg won't go away if you don't take it in...
FYI, I bought a gently used low miles gorgeous charcoal grey shadow perfect finish bi-turbo BMW 235D (a judge traded it in) with an AWESOME ultra-high end leather option, and it had everything except a manual transmission or blue tooth (they have an a la carte optioning menu, and this guy did not know what bluetooth meant). The thing was fun to drive, but lacked true driver input. The transmission over-rode me all the time, even in sport mode using the paddles, and I could not turn off the anti-skid function, which cut the fuel just enough to utterly prevent human control. Can you find something these days that WON'T do this to you? I traded it for my JSW. I'd love to permanently defeat the ESP, but at least I can shut it off after I start it! You can too. You own a 2014 6MT JSW. OK, not a 235D, but hey, try to FIND a 6MT version!
Interesting questions. I bought the car for the torque, reliability, and fuel economy. A fix would certainly affect one of those. My state likely WILL enforce emissions changes to it.

I agree with your assessment of the newer BMWs. My mother has a new 3 series. I like the car, but it is a lot "number" and mass market-oriented.

That is why I am looking at the e39 M5 and e46 M3. Both are more analog "driver's cars", with a wonderful history, and both come with manual transmissions. I feel like this may be my last opportunity to own a car like this before they age out of circulation. Yeah, I will take a huge hit on cost of ownership compared to the TDI, but they are certainly different classes of cars that we really don't see anymore.
 

TDI Hoo

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Virginia
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2010 Golf TDI (Bought back by VW)
Our 2010 TDI Golf has 143K miles. One of the lawyers here in my state wants the trial moved back here. He says in my state you generally get treble damages, or 3x what VW is offering. That would be a good deal. Lawyer gets a set amount not deducted from the triple damages award. I am keeping my options open. But he thinks there is a good chance for the higher damages payment if you don't settle with VW. Money talks.
 

ATR

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Baltimore
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Interesting questions. I bought the car for the torque, reliability, and fuel economy. A fix would certainly affect one of those. My state likely WILL enforce emissions changes to it.
I agree with your assessment of the newer BMWs. My mother has a new 3 series. I like the car, but it is a lot "number" and mass market-oriented.
That is why I am looking at the e39 M5 and e46 M3. Both are more analog "driver's cars", with a wonderful history, and both come with manual transmissions. I feel like this may be my last opportunity to own a car like this before they age out of circulation. Yeah, I will take a huge hit on cost of ownership compared to the TDI, but they are certainly different classes of cars that we really don't see anymore.
I guess I'm not alone in wanting a e39 m5. I'm not sure I'd want that car as my daily driver though. I only really have the room for one car and it's gotta be a reliable car. The e39 is a better car then the e60 m5. When things go wrong with that car it gets pricey very fast. Much faster than the 0-60 time.

The e46 M3 is a great car. Only thing to worry about is vanos and maybe the timing chain tensioner. Actually now that I think about it the e39 also might have issues with the chain tensioner. If that's where you want to go (e39 or e46) then have at it. Make sure you research the best you can on bimmer ///M forums. Ask other ownersyou run in to... etc, all the common sense stuff. Make sure whatever you buy that it has a complete service history and is up to date.

I can't really complain about the maintenance costs of the vw. It's not a big difference between the 06 accord I had prior to this. I wouldn't mind spending a little more on maintenance to be honest. So long as I get a car that drives that much better. But I'd still want a car that gets a combined average of at least 25mpg.

And to go back to the main title of the thread. I'd bother with the buyback because while I'm not in California and we don't have diesel emissions testing in Maryland for vehicles under 10k lbs it's still a CARB state. I can really only think of a few cars that I could fit in comfortably. Vw gti, BMW, chevy, a few Mazda or subaru models and maybe some other cars I haven't tested out.
 

ATR

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2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Our 2010 TDI Golf has 143K miles. One of the lawyers here in my state wants the trial moved back here. He says in my state you generally get treble damages, or 3x what VW is offering. That would be a good deal. Lawyer gets a set amount not deducted from the triple damages award. I am keeping my options open. But he thinks there is a good chance for the higher damages payment if you don't settle with VW. Money talks.
Not too many folks will go out of their way to go to trial. I'm thinking that the buyback offer will be substantial enough to limit cases going to trial.
 

11JSWTDI

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MN
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2011 Jetta SW 6MT(sold)
Long-time lurker on this (very interesting) and the other DG threads. My JSW is paid for (and only 132k miles) so depending on the buyback amount I could see getting into a Golf TSI (I am now retired so not driving nearly as much), GTI or perhaps even a Golf R (I would like to get into something sportier, and do have a chronic case of "new car-itis").

However, I am really waiting to see the final settlement. If the buyback offer is not that great because the alphabet-soup of agencies (EPA, CARB, DoJ, etc.) are more interested in the biggest "fine" rather than how many dollars goes toward a buyback, then I will happily keep the JSW (and maybe get a light tune). I do like how the JSW drives and its performance and economy.
 

tsundoku

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費府
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2014 JSW
I don't want to own a fixed car if that means it'll burn more fuel and produce less power.
But I ask again, are you married to the fix? Will your State force it? These are unknowns for some (my State will certainly NOT enforce an EPA mandate, I am sure, maybe some will).
This is it for me. If I can keep the car as-is indefinitely, my incentive to give it up is low. Any "fix" (assuming there is one in the first place) is likely to negatively impact the car. I was already interested in a tune, and if keeping the car means sacrificing performance, I'd need to get out.

Pennsylvania law regarding emissions standards and diesel seems self-contraditctory - right now there is no emissions testing for diesel passenger vehicles, for the ostensible reason that there is no EPA standard for it, which is not true, and Pennsylvania also claims to be a CARB state. Today, this murky situation works to my advantage, but declining a buyback means rolling the dice in hopes that nothing will ever change. What happens if I decline a buyback, and then five years later Pennsylvania decides to institute emissions testing for diesel? Being forced to neuter my car without the escape route of a buyback available is not outside the realm of possibility. Deciding whether or not to keep the car will require a careful evaluation of these risks.

There is also the money issue, and those specifics aren't out yet. I like the car and I'm not specifically trying to get out of it, but what if the available "resolution" is structured with a generous buyback offer and no compensation for people who decline it? It seems unlikely that Volkswagen will just hand TDI owners $5,000 without requiring some action in return. The motivation here isn't just to placate angry customers, but also to get the noncompliant cars off the road. I want to keep the car, but if it means turning down an offer of thousands of dollars, my willpower would be tested.
 

dubStrom

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Compliance gate??

This is it for me. If I can keep the car as-is indefinitely, my incentive to give it up is low. Any "fix" (assuming there is one in the first place) is likely to negatively impact the car. I was already interested in a tune, and if keeping the car means sacrificing performance, I'd need to get out.

Pennsylvania law regarding emissions standards and diesel seems self-contraditctory - right now there is no emissions testing for diesel passenger vehicles, for the ostensible reason that there is no EPA standard for it, which is not true, and Pennsylvania also claims to be a CARB state. Today, this murky situation works to my advantage, but declining a buyback means rolling the dice in hopes that nothing will ever change. What happens if I decline a buyback, and then five years later Pennsylvania decides to institute emissions testing for diesel? Being forced to neuter my car without the escape route of a buyback available is not outside the realm of possibility. Deciding whether or not to keep the car will require a careful evaluation of these risks.

There is also the money issue, and those specifics aren't out yet. I like the car and I'm not specifically trying to get out of it, but what if the available "resolution" is structured with a generous buyback offer and no compensation for people who decline it? It seems unlikely that Volkswagen will just hand TDI owners $5,000 without requiring some action in return. The motivation here isn't just to placate angry customers, but also to get the noncompliant cars off the road. I want to keep the car, but if it means turning down an offer of thousands of dollars, my willpower would be tested.
There are NO emissions testing requirements for registering cars in Kansas City. We have "safety inspections" only. Even when I lived in Ohio, diesel vehicles were exempt, probably because of the cost of testing equipment (Nox and particulate testing). Frankly, I do not think ANY State will test diesel cars (even in California, all diesel vehicles under 14,000lbs are currently exempt).

Pennsylvania may NOT begin diesel car testing, but they MIGHT require paperwork to demonstrate that the "fix" was done for registration purposes. That might happen in many States, including mine (though I doubt it will happen in Missouri).

States may be told what their options are (by EPA), but I predict that forced compliance will result in MUCH more buyback activity. It will be limited by just how low the buyback amount is, but forced compliance is likely to make more people MUCH more unhappy, since their economy and performance will suffer.

So maybe the choice of whether or not to bother and accept a buy back hinges on enforcement decisions, State by State or top down. What a nightmare for us owners. We'll be all set up for "compliance-gate", where a handful of people are caught submitting forged "fix" documents to get their rogue TDIs registered. :eek:
 
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kjclow

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Interesting questions in the OP dubstorm. Both cars are paid for and I'm only at 90K miles on the JSW and half that on the Golf. I'd really like one of the new GMC Canyon diesels, but my 07 canyon only has 55K miles on it. I really just want to hear a solution from all parties and then decide how to proceed.

first option - do nothing
second option - let VW "fix" my car and throw some cash at me
third option - take the buy-out on both cars. Get the wife something hybrid since she drives more stop and go traffic. Take the remaining money and trade the 07 GMC in on a new one.
Fourth option - an overlap of two and three. Fix one car and buyback the other and get the new truck.
 

sriracha

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805
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I live in CA, so I expect some kind of enforced fix or buyback.

I really enjoy the car. I bought it for the same reasons as everyone else: diesel torque and efficiency; smooth yet firm handling; functionality of a hatchback carrying a lot of work/bike/camping equipment securely; a beautiful design with great fit and finish; 6-speed manual transmission. I also wanted to vote with my dollars in support of the diesel industry as I saw it as an immediate fuel alternative with the hopes of biodiesel becoming more popular in the future.

I upgraded to DG Springs with Pilot Super Sports. The Golf TDI is a really fun car to drive.

Like others have said, there are cars that fulfill each of these qualities in some way or another, but I truly can't think of another car that does all as well.

So, I am optimistically hoping that my gen1 gets grandfathered in. If there is a fix, I'm hoping it is backed by a solid life-long warrantee. If there is a buy back, it pretty much needs to be an offer I can't refuse.
 

tsundoku

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費府
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Pennsylvania may NOT begin diesel car testing, but they MIGHT require paperwork to demonstrate that the "fix" was done for registration purposes. That might happen in many States, including mine (though I doubt it will happen in Missouri).
If forced compliance enters the picture, I probably will take a buyback, even if it's not a "golden parachute," because I don't want to deal with it. Quietly getting a tune in a state with no diesel emissions is one thing, but I'm not interested in playing games to fool authorities into renewing my registration every year. Right now there is no sign of anything happening, but I need to consider the possibility that this might change after the buyback offer ends. It could always happen because, contrary to popular interpretation, there doesn't seem to be anything in Pennsylvania law that prevents it.
 

frugality

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At the time of the April 21 announcement-that-really-wasn't-an-announcement, there was an article claiming that CA was open to allowing some non-compliant vehicle to continue on the road. Maybe someone high up realized that it's a bit of a burden to expect that people should be forced to get rid of their car when they weren't prepared to go to a new vehicle at this point.

VW has set aside multiple billions of dollars for this thing. I think we will see an enhanced buy-back offer -- pre-scandal value plus a bit more, although I doubt the $5k figure. The EPA is looking for it to be somewhat costly for VW, and VW will be looking to keep customers happy, so I don't think it'll be a lowball or even a 'meh' offer. It will have to be enticing. But not quite the lottery winnings that we might be dreaming of.
 

JP-8

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I guess I'm not alone in wanting a e39 m5. I'm not sure I'd want that car as my daily driver though. I only really have the room for one car and it's gotta be a reliable car. The e39 is a better car then the e60 m5. When things go wrong with that car it gets pricey very fast. Much faster than the 0-60 time.
The e46 M3 is a great car. Only thing to worry about is vanos and maybe the timing chain tensioner. Actually now that I think about it the e39 also might have issues with the chain tensioner. If that's where you want to go (e39 or e46) then have at it. Make sure you research the best you can on bimmer ///M forums. Ask other ownersyou run in to... etc, all the common sense stuff. Make sure whatever you buy that it has a complete service history and is up to date.
For all their flaws they certainly are outstanding cars. My only saving grace with the M3 or M5 would be being able to do 85% of my own work, which would save me a good amount on maintenance. Even the VANOS repair on the M5 is only about a $700 ordeal (versus, what, $4k if you ask a dealer). In fact, I might prefer to buy from some owner who has a bad VANOS and wants to get rid of the car cheap.
 

gimmie11s

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SoCal
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2013 DSG jetta premium/nav
Not too many folks will go out of their way to go to trial. I'm thinking that the buyback offer will be substantial enough to limit cases going to trial.
I agree..... thats the whole point with the announcement in April.

Im of the believe that the buyback will be more than fair. This is in addition to compensation for all involved.



I live in CA, so I expect some kind of enforced fix or buyback.

.

Dump it and buy a GTI.

I commute every day from the Inland Empire to LA (135 miles round trip) and owned both. I have a DSG TDI Jetta and i also had a 2015 GTI with the manual 6 speed..

The GTI would consistently get 7.5-8 mpg less than the TDI per tank. Tank after tank after tank. I hand calc every tank in each car.

My TDI averages 41.5 week after week and the GTI would do 33-34 mpg per tank like clock work on my commute.

Best tank i ever had on the GTI was just over 36.
 

ATR

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Baltimore
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2011 Golf TDI 6MT
For all their flaws they certainly are outstanding cars. My only saving grace with the M3 or M5 would be being able to do 85% of my own work, which would save me a good amount on maintenance. Even the VANOS repair on the M5 is only about a $700 ordeal (versus, what, $4k if you ask a dealer). In fact, I might prefer to buy from some owner who has a bad VANOS and wants to get rid of the car cheap.
I too could do my own work. You're beginning to make me wonder if I could do this too :D

Another option would be something like a e60 535i or 550i. Still has the analog feel of the hydraulic steering rack (though some did have a variable steering ratio depending on speed). With a basic tune the 535i would be beyond the e39's power. It has some really cool tech and fantastic seats with the sport package as well. Manual is also a option with these :cool:

The e60 M5 would be a consideration, however it drinks gas like few others on the road. Mid to High teens on the highway iirc. At least with the others I mentioned you're in the mid to high 20s on the highway. The e39 M5 manages mid to high 20s on the highway. I consider these kind of mpg numbers acceptable for the performance you get from the cars.
 

Tfuce

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I'm not even considering to sell it back to them unless the hippies are going to make it unregisterable. But if it remains registerable, I'm keeping mine.
I believe it will be registerable. I'm just worried it will no longer be fun to drive.
 

Tfuce

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I leased mine with the intention of buying at the end, so I didn't pay much attention to mileage. I did that with a BMW and it worked out well. Unfortunately, I have a year left on the lease and will be way over on mileage by the end so I'm waiting to see what they offer with lease termination. If they grandfather the car, I will probably keep it. If they require a fix and I don't get hit hard with the excess mileage with a termination, I will probably turn it in and get a GTI or a base R (if the settlement payment talk is accurate).

Interesting times.
 

dubStrom

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compliance gate!

I believe it will be registerable. I'm just worried it will no longer be fun to drive.
I think what Maddness is talking about is being concerned that the "unfixed" car may not be registerable. No change in performance or FE.

The question being... will it be possible to keep the car as it is and register it? Apparently, California (gold standard of strict air protection-ARB) is making noises about establishing it as an optional compliance policy. They do NOT currently test diesel vehicles below 14,000 lbs anyway.

But if California, or any State requires official evidence that the work has been done by the dealer (paperwork) in order to register, then as I said, we may see people creating fraudulent paperwork, leading to "compliance-gate".
 
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TDIFred

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Colour me curious. As my car is, ostensibly a US car, with a US VIN I qualified for and accepted the Loyalty Package in the US. I am really wondering and like others will have to wait for the outcome, but it sure would be nice to get a payout in US greenbacks while the exchange is in my favour. I await the June 21st announcement (or whenever it occurs) with some measure of anticipation but will not spend the money before the ink has dried. A buy-back is an option but I'd rather keep the car, than have to fork out big bucks for something 'equivalent'.
 

swcrow17

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VA
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2013 Golf TDI DSG
I, like all, have to wait.

My 2013 has 40k on it. Extended warranty until 136k. The buyback would have to be ah-mazing for me to consider. My city doesn't even do emission testing, so no real worries there. If equipment fix and it adds pounds....even then.....not worried about it....plan on tuning it down the road anyways.
 

Diesl

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Dec 3, 2012
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Chicago
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'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
buyback? Lots of big IFs

A buyback would only make sense for me if it would allow me to replace my TDI with the same but newer car, for not more than 10% depreciation per year.
This would rely on
a) an excellent buyback offer being made, and
b) new TDIs being available.
The main incentive for me would be to 'reset the clock' to a new car again without having to drive the current car for 10 years.

I somehow doubt though that VW will be that generous in their buyback offer, plus I'm not convinced that I would like a 2016 or 2017 GSW TDI with SCR/AdBlue tank replacing the independent rear suspension, smaller fuel tank, and maybe other downgrades, as much as my 2012 JSW.

I thought the screen mirroring for the phone might be a nice option to have, but I looked at it in a 2016 TSI, and not only does it require a wired connection, but the radio screen has much worse resolution than my phone, and is in a much worse (unsafe) place for navigation compared to my phone mount.
Exhaust component longevity might be a possible argument for a newer TDI (but I don't think we know yet), and maybe also a potentially improved high pressure fuel pump (IF it really is improved), plus a better (again, only based on hope, not experience) intercooler (air-to-water instead of air-to-air) and maybe overall improved engine design. Then again maybe all these changes are just to make the engine cheaper to produce for VW, and will do nothing for longevity or cheaper maintenance.

So, I'm not convinced that even with a really sweet buyback deal I would be first in line to swap my TDI for a newer one. IF new TDIs will even be available.

If VW gives me $5000 with no strings attached (no buyback, no fix), I will take it though...:D
 
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