Why blame Diesel HPR? From members?

[MAXRPM]

I've been running my diesel cars for years with diesel HPR, never had any issues from CR, ALHs, E90, why there is so much negative hoopla on this fuel? My 1st impression is that when a member tries to blame HPR i know a few of them have used Frankenstein Bio in the past now when switching to this fuel it seems that the chaos starts in their cars, but why blame it when the fuel that was used in the past was not good,,, the only complaint I have on this fuel is that your mpgs will take a hit, at least 2 miles per gallon.

Am I the only one that vouch for this fuel? Or my cars don't seem to mind this fuel at all.

 

[[486]]

isn't it mostly biodiesel?
I'm just not really a fan of it in the 3% blend that we got mandated.
You do you and all that, just that my fuel leaks started looking like a deep fryer rather than an oil leak.

 

[MAXRPM]

Stickers On the pump says this is not Bio-diesel

 

[CleverUserName]

It's actually called Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO). AKA Renewable Diesel."HPR" is the brand name Propel uses to sell it here. It's basically severely hydrotreated waste fats. A similar process in how crude petroleum is converted into synthetic lubricants. You can also extract bio-propane during this process as well.

It's good fuel, however like everything else there are pluses and negatives.

It's dry so you must trust that the blender adds the right lubricity additive in the correct quantity or it can damage your injection system.

It has high cetane with lower density and BTU's compared to Diesel #2. This reduction results in less torque and less MPGs, especially at lower load conditions.

It can cause fuel leaks in older diesels that use rubber seals instead of synthetics like Viton. I had an immediate fuel leak on the return line the first time I tried this stuff 50/50 in my '03 golf, which immediately went away after going back to D#2.

It has very low ash, like 1/10 of what Diesel #2 has so your DPF will last even longer.

It's is also a very low carbon fuel since it's made from recycled wastes. Targeted emissions like NOX will be lower as well, that may be important to some people.

I used it for a couple years, however I got tired of the lower torque. There is a hill by my moms house on Hwy 1 and with HPR I could not climb it in 6th gear without downshifting. With Diesel #2 I can power up the hill without downshifting at 65 MPH on boost. Very noticeable difference with my 2.8 Duramax Canyon.

 

[MAXRPM]

I used to fill up my cars at 100% HPR, and never had any issues, now I'm doing 70% D2 (Chevron) and 30% HPR giving me better results in mpgs, better torque, less smoke than 100% D2 alone

 

[CleverUserName]

Yeah I also noticed less exhaust smoke and less soot % in my oil analysis too. HPR definitely does burn cleaner because it is a purely parrafinic fuel missing nearly all of the aromatic hydrocarbons found in Diesel #2. I used it for almost 50K miles in 4 different vehicles, some tuned and others completely stock. I made a post on here about the 70/30 blend based on a research paper I read. I wondered if you could alter the injection timing, like retard injection slightly to compensate for the earlier ignition with the high cetane based on a technical paper I read. How with tuning on a modern CR diesel, you could alter the timing to increase cylinder pressure and optimize the engine specifically for HVO. Never tried the 70/30 blend as it is a hassle to fill up twice when you need fuel.

The incompatibility with older rubber seals is well documented on here. If you haven't had any fuel leaks yet, I'd be prepared financially to deal with them in the future.

I started using a fuel additive blended 400:1 that gives similar performance as HVO when mixed with CARB DIesel #2. Low smoke, low soot, 5-7+ Cetane Boost, Lubricity etc... that gives me all the advantages of HVO without the negative impacts like lower fuel economy and loss of low end torque. In fact, my oil analysis soot % is actually lower using dosed D#2 than with HPR. Quality Chevron #2 plus additive @ $0.10/gallon is also cheaper in my area than buying propel HPR. I'll be using the dosed dino juice until given no other choice by Gavin Newsom and the green police.

HVO AKA Renewable Diesel typical fuel properties in case you're curious

 

[MAXRPM]

Thxs for the info very detailed and to the point, could u expand on dose2 never heard i will start looking and educate myself on it.

 

[MAXRPM]

Sorry you meant D2 with additive I use myself power service with 2 stroke oil

 

[CleverUserName]

Quality Chevron #2 plus additive @ $0.10/gallon

Yes this means I buy Chevron diesel #2 and add my fuel additive @ 400:1 which is 10 mL per gallon of fuel. The additive adds an additional $0.10 per gallon to the fuel cost. I always buy Diesel from Chevron or Mobil only.

Do you have any oil analysis reports with Power Service to show that it works? Have you tracked MPGs to see if there was an improvement? You don't need to add 2-stroke oil with a quality fuel additive. FYI most legit additive manufacturers will publish their HFRR ratings,

I used Stanadyne PF for years and it never did anything that I could quantify with an oil analysis report or MPGs vs. unadditized diesel #2. It didn't show any improvement whatsoever. I think there are only a few additives that actually do something besides add lubricity.

 

[MAXRPM]

I use 2 stroke oil to aid the IP since a few years ago low Sulphur D2, was introduced, my pumps on my ALHs have lasted long time, none of them have given up on me as of yet, maybe I'm just lucky,, I also recently last year have been putting D2 only at Chevron, I found out that a lot of the D2 on other gas stations are not the same quality like Chevron, my diesel cars when idling were releasing bad D2 smell but when I put at Chevron I almost have 0 smell, less smoke and mpg is better so it is telling me that my engine is burning D2 more efficient than most of the other stations, before I'd look for the cheapest, now I understand cheapest does not mean better digestion for my cars, no I've never done analysis with power services, but I know that twc3 2-stroke oil is one of the best in lubricating the IP.

 

[CleverUserName]

The best lubricant for the IP is actually B20. You can find B20 it at most large truck stops in CA as it’s usually cheaper than straight Diesel #2.

2 stroke TWC3 isn’t a great lubricant, that’s one of those early myths that arose when ULSD was introduced 15 years ago.

You may find this interesting: https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/lubricity-additive-study-results.177728/

 

[MAXRPM]

I Never use Bio, I've seen inside TDI pumps with the chaos that Bio created, the least thing I'd put in my TDIs, members say I've been running for a while, I say have you opened your pump yet?

 

[[486]]

I Never use Bio, I've seen inside TDI pumps with the chaos that Bio created, the least thing I'd put in my TDIs, members say I've been running for a while, I say have you opened your pump yet?

Have you been in yours since a good amount of time on this stuff?
"hydrotreated" (Partially hydrogenated? heh) or not, the base stock is the same as bio, and that would make me real wary.

I've actually been running hydraulic oil thinned with gasoline, mainly to avoid the biodiesel.
Haven't had to open my IP since. Did have to reseal it long ago, back when I was still running pump fuel (well, and the whole 12mm pump head swap I did). I'd imagine mine to have some black sludge in it from what pariculate the filters miss, but that doesn't concern me near as much as polymerized varnish and rust.

 

[CleverUserName]

I Never use Bio, I've seen inside TDI pumps with the chaos that Bio created, the least thing I'd put in my TDIs, members say I've been running for a while, I say have you opened your pump yet?

Biodiesel is made by contract refineries now, it's subsidized by .gov entities and kept afloat by state mandates requiring it's use. The crude bio homebrewed by people in their garage by scrounging waste oil vats at fast food restaurants 20 years ago is what caused all the issues and horror stories.

My ALH Jetta had 275K on it when it was sold. the original owner who I got it from primarily used Biodiesel, B20 and Biodiesel Oasis B20 ( Which is 80% HVO/20% Biodiesel) it's whole life. The injection pump was resealed but healthy until I sold that car to my mechanic and he started running it on 25% Waste Motor Oil and the injection pump failed in less than 5K miles. I don't use Biodiesel because I use an additive, but I wouldn't be worried about using modern B20 made in a refinery in any Rotary Injection pump TDI.

Have you been in yours since a good amount of time on this stuff?
"hydrotreated" (Partially hydrogenated? heh) or not, the base stock is the same as bio, and that would make me real wary.

I've actually been running hydraulic oil thinned with gasoline, mainly to avoid the biodiesel.
Haven't had to open my IP since. Did have to reseal it long ago, back when I was still running pump fuel (well, and the whole 12mm pump head swap I did). I'd imagine mine to have some black sludge in it from what pariculate the filters miss, but that doesn't concern me near as much as polymerized varnish and rust.

Base stock doesn't matter as the HVO is distilled in a fractional distillation column. That's like comparing crude petroleum to a finished "Synthetic" Group III lubricant made from crude. The waste fat contaminants are either converted during the Hydrotreating or left behind in the liquid phase during the distillation/isomerization process.

This is a good read if you're interested in the fuel. https://www.neste.com/sites/default/files/attachments/neste_renewable_diesel_handbook.pdf

 

[MAXRPM]

I can't believe that now it turns out that HPR is bad, after we were discussing how good it is, the minute I wrote Bio is bad now HPR falls in the category like Bio,,, which for your info it is not, pls I mess with my cars and I'd better know how my IPs are, so many times I've opened the top of my IPs, spotless using HPR, ,,,,you need to educate yourself differences between Bio and HPR, whatever the case may be, there is a real reason why Bio is disappearing now, if it was a legitimate good fuel that did no harm to engines we would have it everywhere and the market will be blooming but that's not the case

 

[NewTdi]

As per my mechanic instructions I try to run 30% HPR and 70% D2. When on long road trips sometimes it is somewhat difficult. Since I drive to SoCal a lot I find myself running 100% tanks of B20 and D2. When I fill up the car I also add 3oz of Stanadyne Diesel fuel additive. The car runs great. I have been running HPR for years From 100% tank to many dilutions without an issue and I love the smell of it .
76 has not Renewable Diesel at some of their locations however some pumps are labeled R95 and some R99. What is the verdict on the 76 Renewable Diesel?

 

[MAXRPM]

So you are in the same boat like me, and your cars I imagine never had the ill effect of a leaking pumps, HPR has been good to cars I got to say, so when I read stories of leaking pumps and so on, im always wondering why their pumps leak.

 

[NewTdi]

Never had a leaking pump after 1.2 million miles driven.

 

[igopogo]

Yeah I also noticed less exhaust smoke and less soot % in my oil analysis too. HPR definitely does burn cleaner because it is a purely parrafinic fuel missing nearly all of the aromatic hydrocarbons found in Diesel #2. I used it for almost 50K miles in 4 different vehicles, some tuned and others completely stock. I made a post on here about the 70/30 blend based on a research paper I read. I wondered if you could alter the injection timing, like retard injection slightly to compensate for the earlier ignition with the high cetane based on a technical paper I read. How with tuning on a modern CR diesel, you could alter the timing to increase cylinder pressure and optimize the engine specifically for HVO. Never tried the 70/30 blend as it is a hassle to fill up twice when you need fuel.

The incompatibility with older rubber seals is well documented on here. If you haven't had any fuel leaks yet, I'd be prepared financially to deal with them in the future.

I started using a fuel additive blended 400:1 that gives similar performance as HVO when mixed with CARB DIesel #2. Low smoke, low soot, 5-7+ Cetane Boost, Lubricity etc... that gives me all the advantages of HVO without the negative impacts like lower fuel economy and loss of low end torque. In fact, my oil analysis soot % is actually lower using dosed D#2 than with HPR. Quality Chevron #2 plus additive @ $0.10/gallon is also cheaper in my area than buying propel HPR. I'll be using the dosed dino juice until given no other choice by Gavin Newsom and the green police.

HVO AKA Renewable Diesel typical fuel properties in case you're curious

Hi CleverUserName,

Would you please share the name of that 400:1 fuel additive you use with #2 diesel?

Thank you,

igopogo

 

[ducatipaso]

or on the flipside the car I just bought had to have the IP resealed after 165k and it was run on regular D2 it's entire life

 

[Ton]

It's actually called Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO). AKA Renewable Diesel."HPR" is the brand name Propel uses to sell it here. It's basically severely hydrotreated waste fats. A similar process in how crude petroleum is converted into synthetic lubricants. You can also extract bio-propane during this process as well.

It's good fuel, however like everything else there are pluses and negatives.

It's dry so you must trust that the blender adds the right lubricity additive in the correct quantity or it can damage your injection system.

It has high cetane with lower density and BTU's compared to Diesel #2. This reduction results in less torque and less MPGs, especially at lower load conditions.

It can cause fuel leaks in older diesels that use rubber seals instead of synthetics like Viton. I had an immediate fuel leak on the return line the first time I tried this stuff 50/50 in my '03 golf, which immediately went away after going back to D#2.

It has very low ash, like 1/10 of what Diesel #2 has so your DPF will last even longer.

It's is also a very low carbon fuel since it's made from recycled wastes. Targeted emissions like NOX will be lower as well, that may be important to some people.

I used it for a couple years, however I got tired of the lower torque. There is a hill by my moms house on Hwy 1 and with HPR I could not climb it in 6th gear without downshifting. With Diesel #2 I can power up the hill without downshifting at 65 MPH on boost. Very noticeable difference with my 2.8 Duramax Canyon.

Is the Duramax Canyon a manual transmission?

 

[CleverUserName]

Is the Duramax Canyon a manual transmission?

No it’s not available with a manual transmission in North America.

 

[Ton]

No it’s not available with a manual transmission in North America.

Thank you.

 

[ducatipaso]

No it’s not available with a manual transmission in North America.

we can't have anything nice :-(

 

[hans_gruber0]

I run HPR in my ALH whenever able to fill with it and it gives noticeably more torque at less throttle with WAAAY less smoke

Can't wait until R99 is mandated for both CA and OR

.02

 

[CleverUserName]

I run HPR in my ALH whenever able to fill with it and it gives noticeably more torque at less throttle with WAAAY less smoke

Can't wait until R99 is mandated for both CA and OR

.02

RD does burn with less soot. However during combustion the peak cylinder pressure is lower which means it makes less power and torque. It’s what I call the RD kool-aid, drink up its all in your mind.

 

[ducatipaso]

so let's get some dyno pulls and put this to the test!

 

[NewTdi]

I am all for dyno pulls but all cars have to be equal. How about a fun Sunday drive up the coast. I try to fill up 30%/70% HPR/D2 and the car runs exceptionally well. I also add PS if I remember to put the bottles in the car.

 

[[486]]

so let's get some dyno pulls and put this to the test!

or just look up the advertised fuel density

 

[NewTdi]

or just look up the advertised fuel density

Because dyno pulls are more fun