Why Americans should fall in love with the diesel

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
And, for those of you who have friends that think that diesels are uncool: get an unrefined diesel car, like mine, and romp on the go pedal.

Their minds will be changed like *THAT*! :D
 

greggyc1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Location
Columbia, TN
TDI
2001 New Beetle Cool White
how's this for depreciation?

gottdi said:
Yes and you could turn it around and get more for it out here. That means you made cash. Hunt for the deals and be very patient. Out here 01 TDI Beetles go for between 12,000 to 14,000 depending on mileage. Usually most are up to 180,000 miles. Some with just over 100000 miles will fetch closer to $14,000. That is here. Where you are at I am not sure what the market demand is for used TDI's. I was 6 months patient and got a good deal. Still better than purchasing a new vehicle that will loose $8000 off the lot. So I go find one that is used for $8000 to $10000 less than new with a few good break in miles and I have my new car. $8000 savings is big.
A coworker of mine has a 2001 Chevy Malibu bought new, V6, loaded, leather, automatic, etc, every option at that time, sticker around $19,410. I have a 2001 NB GLS TDI bought new, all stock, no leather, 5speed, standard stuff with CD changer, sticker $18,450 at that time. We BOTH have the same miles on our cars, same year, etc...his KBB value is only three thousand and something:eek:. My NB's KBB value is still almost ten thousand!!!:);):D And they wonder why I don't drive an American gasoline car. :rolleyes:
 

Cincy_Mike

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
Auto 2003 Jetta GLS TDI - Galactic Blue
I like to accelerate briskly but when I'm even with a gasser at a light, they almost always start out quicker than I do. It's the gasser mentality it seems. When millions of Americans start driving diesels like that, I wonder if lots of turbos will be damaged, giving diesel an unreliable reputation.
 

Old Navy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Location
Ozark Hill's in Missouri, USA
TDI
None now, .
Cincy_Mike said:
I like to accelerate briskly but when I'm even with a gasser at a light, they almost always start out quicker than I do. It's the gasser mentality it seems. When millions of Americans start driving diesels like that, I wonder if lots of turbos will be damaged, giving diesel an unreliable reputation.
I have alweays driven my diesels foot to the floor till I get to the speed I want then ease up, never had a problem with any of them.

Ever watch a semi close and see the throttle pattern, it is full bore and shift.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Another reason why I think diesels 'should' become popular in America is perhaps the very reason why some people here argue that they won't. Using the example of the V8 4.2 liter Audi A8, you often hear, "Well if they're only going to put it in some $100,000+ luxury car they'll *never* sell any significant number of diesels in this country.' To me that's kind of like the people who take a look at the price of a gallon of diesel and say it's expensive just because it costs more than regular. There's a lot more than meets the eye. It only makes good business sense to take a sophisticated, relatively expensive-to-build engine and stick it in a model where the additional cost is already high. People who buy expensive cars don't blink at paying a couple fo grand for Sat-Nav, HID adaptive headlights, and camera reverse EACH. What's another grand for a technological jewel under the hood?! And these people are the very consmers who become the opinion-makers. Airbags used to be an exclusive Mercedes opion. Now if you don't have front, side, and curtain you're barely in the game anymore.

The thing is, just look at the pickup truck market. It's the PREMIUM modlel that gets the oil burner, and as people begin to, a-hem, 'pickup' on the idea that these engines are not only more durable (enhancing resale value, which people DO look at) they also are really quite refined already, and that's without the new pressure sensitive glow plugs or piezo injection available here yet - technology that is just coming online. Add to that a certain inconquerable locomotive spirit as you storm past people going up steep uphill sweepers, and like most of us here there really isn't much stopping the general public from sprouting a big fat stupid grin on their faces every time they do it. If diesels have to be in a BMW 5-series, an A6, or a GMC Envoy or two initially, it only makes the diesel an aspiriational item, and a smart marketing strategy. Bragging rights sell cars.

If you haven't noticed yet already MPG has reentered the advertising lexicon, so the slogan "That thing gotta hemi?" could well be leveraged to include, "That thing gotta diesel?!" with compelling effect.

~BG
 
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hank miller

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Location
Monticello, MN
TDI
'06 Jetta
Cincy_Mike said:
I like to accelerate briskly but when I'm even with a gasser at a light, they almost always start out quicker than I do. It's the gasser mentality it seems. When millions of Americans start driving diesels like that, I wonder if lots of turbos will be damaged, giving diesel an unreliable reputation.
Unless the engine is cold you should always be pedal to the floor until you are at full speed. Your engine is most efficient when it is pedal to the floor, and at relatively low RPMs, which as a manual driver is easy to control (shift at about 3000 RPMs)

Note that this assumes you don't have too much torque. If your are burning rubber your need a smaller engine. (Though on a track the larger engine can be useful)
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
cptmox said:
Last year, while I was in Iraq, I lent my car to my wife's kid sister to drive while I was away. I know, I know, call me crazy, but she took good care of it. She has a 30 mile one way trip just to get to high school, and needed a fuel efficient car.
There isn't a bus that goes to and from school every day for free?
 

cp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Location
usa
TDI
2006 TDI Beetle
There is also the law. If your local gas stations are colluding on price the FBI will shut them down. (It is legal to drive around and see what the others are charging, but if they call each other to move the price at the same time that is illegal)
Let me make sure I'm straight on this...looking at what your competitor's sign says, then changing your price to match it...does not qualify as price-fixing? But if he should CALL over and ask what they're charging...does.

That makes perfect sense to me.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Because price fixing makes people want to buy a new diesel car?
 
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Tin Man

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Joined
Nov 18, 2001
Location
Coastal Empire
TDI
Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
One reason to frequent a station that doesn't go along with the rest of the pricing in town.

TM
 

Beeble

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Location
way out west
TDI
'06 New Beetle
I doubt that there's much price-fixing going on. Where I live, there's a huge difference between the lower and highest prices. And it has nothing to do with local competition. The stations with $3.71 and $3.41 diesel are both close to the interstate highway, and only two or three miles from each other.
 

Kiwi_ME

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1999
Location
New Zealand
TDI
2015 Cross Polo 1.2 TSI 81kW, ex '03 Golf TDI, '82 Rabbit Diesel
With ULSD taking over, the automotive and petroleum industries had an opportunity to re-market diesel fuel under a different name and sever the connection to the old, smelly stuff.

What better way to compete with the words "hybrid" or "hydrogen" than to come up with something even more attractive to the Hollywood set?
 
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hank miller

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Location
Monticello, MN
TDI
'06 Jetta
cp said:
Let me make sure I'm straight on this...looking at what your competitor's sign says, then changing your price to match it...does not qualify as price-fixing? But if he should CALL over and ask what they're charging...does.

That makes perfect sense to me.
Exactly.

Stations within about 6 blocks of each other generally have the same prices - all chains that I know of make the managers go out daily to check on the other prices. (Exception - stations that are at a freeway exit might be higher than stations just a couple blocks away, knowing travelers won't go farther, so they don't need the locals who know that other stations are cheaper.

Gas stations can't always lower their price as much as they want. IF one station in town is lower than the others everyone will go to that station, and buy them out. Sounds good, but if there isn't a truck coming soon they will have nothing to sell, not to mention the clerks will be unable to keep up - long lines mean they get a reputation for bad service.

It is common to see a 10 cent price difference going across town (even though all station pay the same wholesale price for gas - generally from the same refinery). However nearby stations need to compete.
 

Dave_D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
TDI
2015 Passat Titanium Beige six speed manual & Jetta, 1999.5, Tornado Red
I have found that in our area diesel fuel prices varies significantly more than gasoline prices. As an example of how extreme this is the station closest to I-270 on Shady Grove Road is charging $3.349 for diesel while the Freestate in Germantown is charging $2.499 per gallon. Gasoline prices are much tighter than this.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Could the original poster please rename this thread to "Conspiracies and price fixing in the fuel market"?

:rolleyes:
 

cptmox

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
Top Ten reasons Americans should fall in love with Diesel:

10. Emissions - Debatable - lower in certain greenhouse gases and carbon monoxide.
9. Safety - Less likely to turn into a fiery crash in an accident.
8. Excellent opportunity for bragging rights around the water cooler.
7. Maintenance savings - spark plugs, wires, distributors, etc...
6. Extended range per tank of fuel.
5. The ability to run on Biodiesel.
4. Extended engine lifespan.
3. Excellent torque curve.
2. Increased towing capacity.
1. MPG
 

Beeble

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Location
way out west
TDI
'06 New Beetle
Yet another reason: according to our chief executive's speech last night, the country is "addicted to oil" and we need to reduce dependence by 75%. Ethanol? I'm very skeptical, given Brazil's history with is (so much land was converted to ethanol crops that they had to start importing staple foods like rice and beans). Biodiesel? You bet!
 

rotarykid

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Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
what bull sh!t

Beeble said:
Yet another reason: according to our chief executive's speech last night, the country is "addicted to oil" and we need to reduce dependence by 75%. Ethanol? I'm very skeptical, given Brazil's history with is (so much land was converted to ethanol crops that they had to start importing staple foods like rice and beans). Biodiesel? You bet!
Bozos' policy means nothing if all his cronies continue to make high mpg diesel powered cars unavailable . His group has baned high mpg clean diesels in autos by passing emissions rules for auto class vehicles that Washington knows the automakers are unable to meet . And continues to give SUVs & Pick Up trucks emissions loopholes to waste gasoline & polute at levels not seen in 30 years in autos .

If the stupid unrealistic emissions rules were removed tomorrow , overnight we could cut our fuel use by millions of barrels of oil a day . The republicans in power know this , but only care to keep oil profits high not to reduce oil consumption. And don't want to really reduce oil consumption at all .

We don't need new engine tech like bozo and his cronies cry , we have clean high mpg diesel engines now available . NO RESURCH REQUIRED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Old Navy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Location
Ozark Hill's in Missouri, USA
TDI
None now, .
What I would like to know is where the people who refer to Presidents as Bozo or wrong head thinker get off. I had a friend that use to just hate it when people picked on Clinton for womanizing or selling the White house, yet when "Bozo" got elected he always refered to him as stupid and unable to speak well.

The funny thing was my friend always thought I was Republican because I always asked what kind of leader conducts his personal life like that. Later when a Bush was elected and he started doing the same thing as others had done to man of choice (my friend was very religious and had never been unfaithful to his wife, he was just a died in the wool Democrate) and saw no problem with it. He could never muster a come back to the fact if he was so stupid how did he manage to get the education he has and manage be the sucessful business man he was. And what was my friends excuse for not being something more then just a teacher at some small comunity college who was a class mate of the new Sec of Defence that was also more sucessful and yet stupid in his eyes.

No I am not a Democrate, but neither am I Republican. I don't vote for someone because of his/her party affilation, I vote on the individuals record. But to call someone Bozo or stupid just because you don't belong to the same party is to belittle ones self and your political beliefs if that is all the better you can speak for yourself and your political party.

Just my rant, have a nice day.
 

cptmox

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
Top Ten reasons why there aren't any more diesel cars available for sale in North America:

10. History - The popular notion in the media, is that we remember the diesels of the '80s - I personally don't agree with this particular theory, but apparently enough people do because it won't go away.
9. Percieved lack of availablity of diesel fueling stations. This is another one I don't agree with, but popular opinion is really what matters.
8. Production - all the auto manufacturers are producing all the diesels they can to keep up with demand in Europe.
7. Cost - Diesel engines are more expensive to produce. GM and Ford can't sell the cars they have now, imagine trying to sell a Malibu or Impala without huge discounts.
6. Towing - The reason pickups sell a good number of diesels is because they are the best engine available to tow with. Car owners are limited by the chassis no matter how much torque the engine produces. As soon as medium & large SUVs are offered with diesels, this reason will go away.
5. ULSD - manufacturers are waiting to see what type of impact this will have on the price/demand in our diesel fuel market. Some of the super desireable European models might come our way after ULSD gets sorted out.
4. Our need for speed/our lack of understanding what is "usable speed" - More Americans need to test drive a modern diesel. Car magazines don't help when they report 0-60 times for a Honda S2000 at under 6 minutes, and the reality is that the car has to be revved up to 8000 rpm and the clutch dropped to achieve such numbers. Who does that to their own car?
3. For the time being, diesel costs more than gas.
2. The popular notion that diesels pollute more than gas models. The tractor/trailer image, super liberal Greenpeace Al Gore-types, Sierra Club folks who lobby AGAINST the oil companies, all contribute to this manner of thinking.
1. California, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont and Maine. A very sizable chunk of new car sales takes place in those five states. That is a very sizable chunk of Americans who could not buy a diesel even if it were offered. Car manufactures know this all too well, realize they need to sell X number of diesels to be profitable, and don't feel they could do it with out the key BLUE states.

**I know I missed some points, and some of the points I listed might seem miniscule compared to other issues. Feel free to add more thoughts and theories if you think of any. Do not inject any conspiracy theories about a government trying to manipulate our addiction to oil and support big oil companies.
 

cptmox

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
rotarykid said:
Bozos' policy means nothing if all his cronies continue to make high mpg diesel powered cars unavailable . His group has baned high mpg clean diesels in autos by passing emissions rules for auto class vehicles that Washington knows the automakers are unable to meet . And continues to give SUVs & Pick Up trucks emissions loopholes to waste gasoline & polute at levels not seen in 30 years in autos .

If the stupid unrealistic emissions rules were removed tomorrow , overnight we could cut our fuel use by millions of barrels of oil a day . The republicans in power know this , but only care to keep oil profits high not to reduce oil consumption. And don't want to really reduce oil consumption at all .

We don't need new engine tech like bozo and his cronies cry , we have clean high mpg diesel engines now available . NO RESURCH REQUIRED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
A couple more:

Grimy fuel pumps - not if the gas stations keep them clean
Stinky fuel that gets all over your hands - gloves are cheap
 

meganuke

TDIClub Contributor, Vendor
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Location
VA/CT
TDI
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid
I wouldn't call the distributor/plug/wires thing a wash after a recent experience. My friend has a 99 Dodge Avenger, and the distributor recently went bad. The distributor has a few other sensors in it, one relating to the cam and one relating to the fuel pressure, IIRC. This part costs over $900 at the dealer, and doesn't include the cap, rotor, wires or plugs. The plug wires were showing signs of corrosion, despite being replaced within the last two years. Being a V6 (Mitsubishi) engine, three of the cylinders are very easy to access, while the other three require removal of the plenum. This forces you to buy a new gasket for that. It's about an hour of labor to just get at the rear cylinder bank so you can start replacing the plugs and wires. All told, this job would have cost over $1300 at the dealer. I've owned a few vehicles with "100K mile plugs" and none have ever made it that long. 25K is the most I've ever gotten out of a set before it started running noticably rough. I usually change wires every other year.
 

Old Navy

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Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Location
Ozark Hill's in Missouri, USA
TDI
None now, .
CPTMOX give an old man a break that has been up since 2:30 am with terriable sinius headache and sick at tummy.

I know I was rambling a lot, but if you could not get the idea that I could not understand why people had to be so polarized to their political party as to be using such childish ways I'm sorry. I have injured your great and wise mind so soon this morning with such ramblings and for that I am sorry. It was not my intent to personally atttack your keen sensabilities and for that I appoligize also, and wish you a fine day.

Damn I am ready for this headache to go away.
 
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hank miller

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Location
Monticello, MN
TDI
'06 Jetta
Try changing glow plugs in a V6 diesel car. If had an I4 you would not have that spark plug problem. If your diesel was a V6 you would have problems changing the glow plus.

True our TDIs are all I4s, but you can bet (for marketing reasons if nothing else) that if diesel became popular someone would cram a V6 under the hood of a car.

We don't have distributors, but we have injection pumps, which fail once in a while.

There are parts that need replacement once in a while on a car. Cars that have room to luggage next to big V8 went out of style with the 1960s, and don't show signs of coming back. Until that day engines will be crammed under the hood, and therefore it will be hard to replace some parts.
 
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