Who's keeping, who's selling?

[gnuworldorder]

You'll love the 'R' as we have both a 2015 'R' DSG and a 2015 TDI S 6-speed, with Bilstein HD B6 shocks on it as the factory TDI shocks are junk.

Whats with your 36MPG on your TDI? Our TDI mileage has averaged 48.5 MPG over the past 9k miles, calculated by dividing mileage driven by fuel pumped to fill up. 36MPG is whacko for a TDI.
-Rod

if i only drive city i get ~28mpg per tank. ive driven to philly and hit 54mpg. also im thinking about getting an r also, can the dsg hold an apr stage 2 or will it shred itself?

 

[cane929]

Keeping so far, test drove several cars and nothing compare or come close in comparison to the solid feel of my sportwagen.

 

[viking427]

There are no 2017 TDIS. Don't expect any 2018s or 2019s, or...

..have to agree. VW tipped their hand, a couple weeks ago with their world wide press release announcing their all out push into electric vehicles. 2015 TDIs are officially collectors items

 

[Shife]

Sorry, but I think you are dreaming. Who would buy them? Largest buyback in automotive history.

Nobody cares. Apart from a handful of rabid owners, nobody freaking cares about this. It's already been spit out of the news cycle and will be forgotten jsut like all the other automotive scandals that have passed and all those yet to come. Your experience is not reflective of society as a whole. I know that's a difficult concept these days.

 

[solBLACK]

Nobody cares. Apart from a handful of rabid owners, nobody freaking cares about this. It's already been spit out of the news cycle and will be forgotten jsut like all the other automotive scandals that have passed and all those yet to come. Your experience is not reflective of society as a whole. I know that's a difficult concept these days.

Most people have no idea what Diesel Gate is, or that VW is even having an issue. Only reason people around me know is that I've brought it up.

 

[J.R.]

Sorry, but I think you are dreaming. Who would buy them? Largest buyback in automotive history.

Me.

It's still me #1 option for my next car (though I'll likely get the 'fix' un-fixed).

Without the TDI I'll be getting a Mazda 3 wagon or Subaru Outback. Their lack of torque in comparison and lesser ability to tow our small utility trailer, not to mention worse fuel usage, make them less desirable options though.

 

[Kiter]

This is where I've landed:

1) If VW will offer 2017/2018 TDI models in the USA, I will indeed take advantage of the buyback to get into a newer TDI Golf for little or no cost.

2) If TDI models will be discontinued, and the performance/efficiency/reliability of the car is not impacted by the fix (with the 2015 Golf already having the DEF injection system, I remain hopeful this is the case and the fix will only be to the software), I will strongly consider going with the fix and continue driving the car.

3) If TDI models will be discontinued, and the performance/efficiency/reliability is impacted by a fix (or a fix never comes), I will take advantage of the buyback and just make the jump to an EV (likely non-VW).

 

[srs5694]

1) If VW will offer 2017/2018 TDI models in the USA, I will indeed take advantage of the buyback to get into a newer TDI Golf for little or no cost.

I haven't read it thoroughly yet, but this article suggest that VW will kill "most" (word in the first paragraph) of its diesels in the US. My guess is they'll keep diesel options for pricier models but not for the likes of the Golf and Jetta.

2) If TDI models will be discontinued, and the performance/efficiency/reliability of the car is not impacted by the fix (with the 2015 Golf already having the DEF injection system, I remain hopeful this is the case and the fix will only be to the software), I will strongly consider going with the fix and continue driving the car.

The generation 3 (which your 2015 Golf is) fix involves both software and hardware changes, to be performed in two steps. The software change might be made available before the end of the year, but the hardware change will have to wait at least a year, with 1/3 of your compensation (should you choose a fix) being held back until the hardware modification is performed. As I understand it, the software change will take care of the emissions issue; the hardware change is adding sensors to ensure that the DEF system is doing what it's supposed to do. Thus, the hardware change shouldn't affect performance or fuel economy; however....

Adding new hardware to a working car is unlikely to make it more reliable. (I can imagine exceptions, like new hardware that helps take the load off another component that's being stressed.) These new sensors will need to be physically added somewhere, which means they could work loose and need replacing. They might be defective or fail, resulting in either a failure to detect a problem or a false alarm, which would necessitate a service visit.

Furthermore, the software fix is likely to mean that the DEF system is going to be running more vigorously than it did before, which means more wear and tear.

Thus, although I can't speak to the fuel economy and performance issues, I'd be shocked if the fix had no effect on reliability -- it's almost certain to decline. The real question is how badly it will decline. We may never know the answer to that question, of course, because as individuals we only know what happens to our own cars, and we can't peer into an alternate universe in which this scandal never occurred. Even VW might not know the true effects, since they can't peer into that alternate universe, either. The change might cause one in ten thousand cars to need an extra repair over the vehicles' lifetimes; or the sensors could be shoddily designed and cause half the cars to require extra repairs within a year of installation.

 

[J.R.]

I haven't read it thoroughly yet, but this article suggest that VW will kill "most" (word in the first paragraph) of its diesels in the US. My guess is they'll keep diesel options for pricier models but not for the likes of the Golf and Jetta.

That...would suck.

 

[Sunnyb]

I haven't read it thoroughly yet, but this article suggest that VW will kill "most" (word in the first paragraph) of its diesels in the US. My guess is they'll keep diesel options for pricier models but not for the likes of the Golf and Jetta.
The generation 3 (which your 2015 Golf is) fix involves both software and hardware changes, to be performed in two steps. The software change might be made available before the end of the year, but the hardware change will have to wait at least a year, with 1/3 of your compensation (should you choose a fix) being held back until the hardware modification is performed. As I understand it, the software change will take care of the emissions issue; the hardware change is adding sensors to ensure that the DEF system is doing what it's supposed to do. Thus, the hardware change shouldn't affect performance or fuel economy; however....
Adding new hardware to a working car is unlikely to make it more reliable. (I can imagine exceptions, like new hardware that helps take the load off another component that's being stressed.) These new sensors will need to be physically added somewhere, which means they could work loose and need replacing. They might be defective or fail, resulting in either a failure to detect a problem or a false alarm, which would necessitate a service visit.
Furthermore, the software fix is likely to mean that the DEF system is going to be running more vigorously than it did before, which means more wear and tear.
Thus, although I can't speak to the fuel economy and performance issues, I'd be shocked if the fix had no effect on reliability -- it's almost certain to decline. The real question is how badly it will decline. We may never know the answer to that question, of course, because as individuals we only know what happens to our own cars, and we can't peer into an alternate universe in which this scandal never occurred. Even VW might not know the true effects, since they can't peer into that alternate universe, either. The change might cause one in ten thousand cars to need an extra repair over the vehicles' lifetimes; or the sensors could be shoddily designed and cause half the cars to require extra repairs within a year of installation.

If I keep my car, do I have to get the fix?
The repair doesn't appear to be mandatory at the moment. In the future, however, the EPA may require repair as a prerequisite to renewing your registration. Here's how this could shake out:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/faq-volkswagen-diesel-emissions-settlement.html
In the following states, diesel vehicles are explicitly exempt from emissions testing:
• Florida
• Georgia
• Pennsylvania
• Texas
• Washington (Diesels under 6,001 lbs. gross vehicle weight rating or model year 2007 and newer are exempt from testing)
A number of states do not have any vehicle emissions test programs. This means VW diesel owners who live there could conceivably keep driving the cars and not get a fix at all — unless the EPA could legally prevent unrepaired cars from being reregistered. If these cars are still on the road, of course, they would go on spewing NOx into the environment at up to 40 times above the legal limit. These states are:
• Alabama
• Alaska
• Arkansas
• Hawaii
• Iowa
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Michigan
• Minnesota
• Mississippi
• Montana
• Nebraska
• North Dakota
• Oklahoma
• South Carolina
• South Dakota
• West Virginia
• Wyoming
Or you can take the cash and enjoy the ride

 

[oilhammer]

And in Missouri, in the few counties that DO require emissions testing of diesels, it is just an OBD test for 1997+ vehicles under 8500 GVWR, and every "cheating" CR TDI will pass no problem. Because the car sees no problem with the way it was programmed to operate. Essentially, all it needs in order to pass is no MIL on (but it still operates KOEO), no DTCs stored, and all the readiness monitors set. Same rules for the gas engines, except those go back to 1996, and they can have up to 2 unset monitors through 2000, and 1 unset from 2001+, but if it already failed for a catalyst related DTC, the catalyst monitor MUST be set regardless.

So in other words, if it is working as designed, it will pass. And keep in mind, this is only in a few counties in our state. Most don't have any OBD test of any kind.

There is nothing on the books here to tie vehicle inspections of registrations to recalls, and there likely never will be thankfully.

 

[Kiter]

I haven't read it thoroughly yet, but this article suggest that VW will kill "most" (word in the first paragraph) of its diesels in the US.

This article: VW done with diesel push in U.S., exec says

... suggests we can expect TDIs to be on dealer lots from 2017-2019, assuming regulatory approval. However, therafter, the future of TDIs are far less certain.

I am still considering that this might be an opportunity to upgrade to a newer model before they disappear.

 

[adjat84th]

Or you can take the cash and enjoy the ride

I was under the impression that in order to get the compensation, you have to get the fix (hence the column of that amount being titled "modification"). If there is a loophole that I'm unaware of, I'd love to see it.

 

[Sunnyb]

I'm not sure that is going to be part of the settlement. It might be a tough sell for VW to only compensate the owners who bring their cars in. Who knows? I only hope it's not because I'd rather leave the car the way it is.

 

[Jsuttin]

When I initially looked at the numbers, it appeared that the buyback was the more sensible option. I test drove a Golf TSI and GTI and then determined that I didn't like either of them better than my TDI. As long as the modification doesn't appreciably change my driving experience, I'm probably going to be a keeper.

 

[srs5694]

I'm not sure that is going to be part of the settlement. It might be a tough sell for VW to only compensate the owners who bring their cars in. Who knows? I only hope it's not because I'd rather leave the car the way it is.

Not at all. That's the way the current proposal is written; you have three choices:

• Accept the buyback.
• Accept the fix and associated cash (if/when it becomes available).
• Do nothing to the car and get no cash. (There is the possibility of suing VW yourself or as part of some other class action, though. The consensus opinion is that this is likely to go nowhere.)

 

[Sunnyb]

Not at all. That's the way the current proposal is written; you have three choices:

• Accept the buyback.
• Accept the fix and associated cash (if/when it becomes available).
• Do nothing to the car and get no cash. (There is the possibility of suing VW yourself or as part of some other class action, though. The consensus opinion is that this is likely to go nowhere.)

Where is that from? Please post the source for that information. If its out there then I missed it. I did find this Bloomberg article
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-19/even-after-recall-vw-s-dirty-diesels-won-t-meet-air-standards
It does not specify if owners must have their vehicles "fixed" to receive compensation. On the contrary it eludes to VWOA spending more money on "mitigation of emissions" then fixing the cars.

 

[srs5694]

Where is that from? Please post the source for that information. If its out there then I missed it.

Not the I-want-money-without-fixing-my-car claim again?!?! It's quite explicit in the proposed settlement. Read it!

 

[Jibeho]

Let me preface that we mostly drive our cars well over 10 years and don't care about resale. Our third car is a 2006 MCS MINI with 67,000 miles. My commute is 34 miles and my wife's has gone from 47 miles to 2 blocks. She drove the Golf.

I'm keeping one and selling the other back. I have an early 2009 Jetta manual I paid $25k on the road for. It has 14k on the clock so the $11,000 they are offering is a no brainer.

My other is a 2015 Golf S with DSG. I paid $23k on the road and owe $9k on it. The buy back is $22,700 and the MOD is $6,300. This car is just under 40k miles.

My intention is to take the 11k from the Jetta, pay off the Golf. Strat driving the Golf as my daily. We will then own both of our cars. Take the extra 2k and put it towards a lease on the new 2017 Jaguar XE 35t. When the 6k for the MOD comes in bank it.

 

[andyrooski17]

Where is that from? Please post the source for that information. If its out there then I missed it. I did find this Bloomberg article
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-19/even-after-recall-vw-s-dirty-diesels-won-t-meet-air-standards
It does not specify if owners must have their vehicles "fixed" to receive compensation. On the contrary it eludes to VWOA spending more money on "mitigation of emissions" then fixing the cars.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/PSC_Settlement_Agreement/Settlement%20Agreement/Exhibit%203%20-%20Long%20Form%20Notice.pdf

Page 23, item 50. This might be also in one of the more executive level summaries, but I found it here first.

Update: Ah yes, it's also on the first page of this

 

[andyrooski17]

Also, I'm still leaning toward selling. Probably sometime next year after driving through another New England winter. The uncertainty of post-fix value makes the certainty of the buyback more attractive. I also haven't seen the final numbers for 2015 Golfs with options. The dollar figures in the settlement docs don't include adjustments for lighting package, but based on the auto trans adjustment, it should be around $600.

My short(?) list for a replacement is roughly:
GTI
Golf TSI
Mazda 3
Mazda CX-5
Maxda CX-9 (only a wife and dog, no kids yet, but that thing is sweet)
Used Audi A3 or A4
Used BMW 3-series (diesel or otherwise)

I will have to wait and see if I have a choice sense mine is a 1st generation. I defiantly would like a 2017 GSW TDI, or even a Golf GTI but don't know if I would like having to use premium gas all the time. Would not mind keeping my JSW with no fix and putting tune on it.

Worthy of note here: You can run the GTI on regular, no problem, with only a slight hit in top-end performance. Some might not like it, but you can imagine a little forethought would allow you to run regular during boring commuting weeks and pony up for the premium if you know you've got a country road in your future .

 

[andyrooski17]

Also, I'm still leaning toward selling. Probably sometime next year after driving through another New England winter. The uncertainty of post-fix value makes the certainty of the buyback more attractive. I also haven't seen the final numbers for 2015 Golfs with options. The dollar figures in the settlement docs don't include adjustments for lighting package, but based on the auto trans adjustment, it should be around $600.
My short(?) list for a replacement is roughly:
GTI
Golf TSI
Mazda 3
Mazda CX-5
Maxda CX-9 (only a wife and dog, no kids yet, but that thing is sweet)
Used Audi A3 or A4
Used BMW 3-series (diesel or otherwise)

I will have to wait and see if I have a choice sense mine is a 1st generation. I defiantly would like a 2017 GSW TDI, or even a Golf GTI but don't know if I would like having to use premium gas all the time. Would not mind keeping my JSW with no fix and putting tune on it.

Worthy of note here: You can run the GTI on regular, no problem, with only a slight hit in top-end performance. Some might not like it, but you can imagine a little forethought would allow you to run regular during boring commuting weeks and pony up for the premium if you know you've got a country road in your future .

 

[Matt927]

I have been pleasantly surprised by the GTI mileage. I bought a 6mt, seeing between 32-36 on my commute. 400 miles per tank is fairly easy. I still get on the throttle every day but don't race from light to light.

Mix of city,rural and highway on my 50 mile one way commute.

 

[rghart]

the plan is
buyback depending on court cases--VW could leave the US market and not pay zip to anyone,which means no wait for buyback-git-er done- they could bankrupt

take buy back and put it on a 17 Golf JSW diesel

have fix and buy tune to replace fix

bribe dealer to do fix on paper only (#1 option),,the good-ole-boys here in texas are mad at VW--I think a Grand would do the job

VW here is VW USA, a separate corp which is apart from the German co.

 

[GWbiker]

the plan is
buyback depending on court cases--VW could leave the US market and not pay zip to anyone,which means no wait for buyback-git-er done- they could bankrupt

take buy back and put it on a 17 Golf JSW diesel

have fix and buy tune to replace fix

bribe dealer to do fix on paper only (#1 option),,the good-ole-boys here in texas are mad at VW--I think a Grand would do the job

VW here is VW USA, a separate corp which is apart from the German co.

It's all under VW GROUP. A sad beginning from a lone auto factory that was bombed out in later months of WWII.

VW survived WWII. VW group will survive Dieselgate.

 

[bora2003]

It's all under VW GROUP. A sad beginning from a lone auto factory that was bombed out in later months of WWII.

VW survived WWII. VW group will survive Dieselgate.

Well said. I will be keeping my 2015 TDI Golf S -- unless the CARB militants deny any fix that VW comes up with. If so, I'm headed to AZ and register my VW at my brother's house.

 

[Franny]

I have a 2010 Jetta TDI with 171,000 miles on it. I think I'll get about $13,000 in the buyback. I would LOVE to get a Touareg TDI or a Passat TDI as we now have 3 kids under four and they don't fit in the Jetta and our closest family is about 5 hours away. I'm not confident that a fix will be approved for the '09-'10 2.0's. If a fix is approved I think the mileage and performance will take a huge hit. However I've also read that the potential 3.0 software fix was just rejected by CARB and the EPA. I don't want to lose my mileage, but I don't want to decrease the reliability with a fix either. In the same thought, I have a lot of miles on mine and I know that maintenance and fixes are going to start piling up. If I can get a new Passat or Touareg and get a guarantee from VW that they will warranty the emissions system and all fixes they make to the vehicle then I'll get one. I know someone who has a 1.8 Passat gasser and she's getting close to 40 driving it hard on the interstate. If I can get a gasser for $4000+ cheaper than a TDI I might do it. I used to put 30,000+ miles a year, but only 15,000ish now so not as much time on the road and with fuel and gas prices pretty close it's hard to make up the difference in price. I LOVE diesel, but at 5-10K difference in price I might take a gasser. Praying for a quick fix on new Touareg TDI's and a great deal.

 

[Bikebits]

For those that are predicting doom for VW in general and their diesels in particular, have a look here: http://www.dw.com/en/volkswagen-is-global-leader-in-car-sales/a-19426433 . Interesting to see CARB (last paragraph) is looking to see the majority of the offending vehicles repaired and re-sold.

Elsewhere an article said the full cost of the Diesel scandal will be equivalent to one year of VW's profits. That they can weather.

 

[Hvacrmike70]

I signed up Online for the buy back at VW's website. They asked detailed questions about my lease and car. The amount I will be getting back is 3,740.40 for a 2015 golf sel tdi DSG light pkg and drivers with 9,800 miles. Car will be 2 yrs old in October.

 

[andyrooski17]

I signed up Online for the buy back at VW's website. They asked detailed questions about my lease and car. The amount I will be getting back is 3,740.40 for a 2015 golf sel tdi DSG light pkg and drivers with 9,800 miles. Car will be 2 yrs old in October.

Interesting, i was just on the settlement site and didn't see any way to actually submit any information beyond just name and VIN to get "updates"